Author Topic: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News  (Read 12026 times)

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Offline tlb919

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #240 on: May 23, 2018, 11:41:35 PM »
Im actually impressed with this level of NIMBY in the urban core. Kaufman is basically trying to play nice with the commission and residents but in the end it's going to be built because it is ultimately up to the city. I was at the meeting and people were threatening lawsuits which is absolutely laughable because that's not how this
works at all, seeing as no laws are being broken. Realistically this will not hurt any of their property values, just their egos.

Yes, the project is large but it's either that or nothing (a parking lot?). What I know is that Kaufman won't build it with less than 200 units and that means it has to go up. Placing my bets now....this is only the start of taller development. Today it was 14 floors but every project they fight is just going to push the next one taller.

No we're not NYC or Atlanta, we are however a boom city with rising costs and insane real estate pressures. Chicago is a neighbor with some of the most architecturally diverse neighborhoods with density (high rises) along arteries and single family homes on the same block and guess what.. it's working just fine.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 12:00:23 AM by tlb919 »

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #241 on: May 24, 2018, 09:04:09 AM »
^You shouldn't "laugh" at threatened lawsuits.  No laws have to be broken to start the ball rolling.  Really the only thing preventing a lawsuit is cost and the amount of time a person or persons have to devote since it could be a long and drawn out process.

Will this project require a simple zoning variance?  In Cleveland, a significant apartment development was proposed for a blighted site in Little Italy and numerous zoning variance were required.  The lengthy and expense (retention of real estate experts for the presentation the zoning board) process was initiated and the city granted the variances.  There after a single nearby homeowner with apparent deep pockets and a lot of time on his hand began the statutory appeal process challenging the variances.  The case lasted for more than 3 years (going to the court of appeals twice).  The city and developer won at all levels on the substantive issues and had a strong case to win over all, but recently (for unknown reasons-possibly increase costs due to the delay) just gave up and the project is dead.

Reading Curbed New York I am constantly amazed by the nit-picky grounds that are used to support lawsuits by opponents of developers and they seem to go on and on.

Offline Toddguy

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #242 on: May 24, 2018, 09:51:38 AM »
These people need to go down to Atlanta for a couple of days and see that you can in fact build a 40-floor condo tower a block from some two-story houses without the world coming to an end.

It's not a block, it's right next door.  That's also why I referred to Houston in a previous post, but where those are built they're in master-planned communities not one that's a century+ old.  And this thing looks like the hideous monstrosity on Columbus Commons, that Kaufman also built.

The more I look at the renderings, the more the bigger part and part of the middle look JUST LIKE the monstrosity on the commons, even the same ugly color with projecting balconies. I would be more concerned about that than anything else. It may not just be the tallest but also the ugliest. Why do they even think that crap looks good at all?

Offline Columbo

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #243 on: May 24, 2018, 11:12:34 AM »
These people need to go down to Atlanta for a couple of days and see that you can in fact build a 40-floor condo tower a block from some two-story houses without the world coming to an end.

It's not a block, it's right next door.  That's also why I referred to Houston in a previous post, but where those are built they're in master-planned communities not one that's a century+ old.  And this thing looks like the hideous monstrosity on Columbus Commons, that Kaufman also built.

Did Kauffman actually design those buildings?  I thought that was, ironically, Carter from Atlanta?

I think he's referring to the 12-story '80 on the Commons' building, which is a Kaufman project.
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Offline casey

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #244 on: May 24, 2018, 11:13:21 AM »
The more I look at the renderings, the more the bigger part and part of the middle look JUST LIKE the monstrosity on the commons, even the same ugly color with projecting balconies. I would be more concerned about that than anything else. It may not just be the tallest but also the ugliest. Why do they even think that crap looks good at all?

The most recent renderings didn't make the move to this thread with everything else for some reason, but I think they look better than what is shown above and a lot less 225/80 Commons-like

https://www.urbanohio.com/forum/index.php/topic,2062.msg912095.html#msg912095




Offline cbussoccer

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #245 on: May 24, 2018, 11:23:04 AM »
^ Yea, I really don't think the newest renderings are all that bad. The western portion of the project looks really good and does a good job of blending with the neighborhood. The taller eastern portion is somewhat mediocre, but it's more contemporary style meshes relatively well with some of the new developments along High Street.

Offline Columbo

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #246 on: May 24, 2018, 11:35:52 AM »
^You shouldn't "laugh" at threatened lawsuits.  No laws have to be broken to start the ball rolling.  Really the only thing preventing a lawsuit is cost and the amount of time a person or persons have to devote since it could be a long and drawn out process.

Will this project require a simple zoning variance?  In Cleveland, a significant apartment development was proposed for a blighted site in Little Italy and numerous zoning variance were required.  The lengthy and expense (retention of real estate experts for the presentation the zoning board) process was initiated and the city granted the variances.  There after a single nearby homeowner with apparent deep pockets and a lot of time on his hand began the statutory appeal process challenging the variances.  The case lasted for more than 3 years (going to the court of appeals twice).  The city and developer won at all levels on the substantive issues and had a strong case to win over all, but recently (for unknown reasons-possibly increase costs due to the delay) just gave up and the project is dead.

Since this project is located in the Victorian Village Historic District, the Victorian Village Commission must approve "the overall design" of the project.  Basically this is approval of the exterior design/massing/materials etc. and a recommendation to approve any zoning variances.  Any zoning variances would then go to the City's BZA for final approval (although if the VV Commission recommends approval, the BZA will almost always concur).  A height variance is definitely needed for this Kaufman project, and possibly some more minor setback and parking variances.

As far as a threatened lawsuit being nothing to laugh at.  Possibly - if Kaufman doesn't want to wait on the eventual outcome.  But with a hot real estate market like Columbus/Central Ohio, most developers do stick around through any court appeals, if they have an approved project.  In Central Ohio, I've found that the ballot referendum process can be more threatening to local developers.  There have been some projects in Upper Arlington and Powell that have been overturned (or at least delayed) at the ballot box.  However, the signature threshold to get a referendum on the ballot is much lower in UA and Powell then in the City of Columbus.  It can be done in Columbus, but it requires something like 10% of the citywide registered voters (at least 20,000+, I think).  And getting 20,000+ signatures citywide for what is essentially a neighborhood issue seems unlikely.
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Offline Columbo

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #247 on: May 24, 2018, 11:46:17 AM »
The most recent renderings didn't make the move to this thread with everything else for some reason, but I think they look better than what is shown above and a lot less 225/80 Commons-like

Thanks for the heads-up.  Those renderings and the reply posts have now been moved into this thread.
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Offline Columbo

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #248 on: May 24, 2018, 11:46:32 AM »
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Offline Toddguy

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #249 on: May 24, 2018, 12:18:56 PM »
The more I look at the renderings, the more the bigger part and part of the middle look JUST LIKE the monstrosity on the commons, even the same ugly color with projecting balconies. I would be more concerned about that than anything else. It may not just be the tallest but also the ugliest. Why do they even think that crap looks good at all?

The most recent renderings didn't make the move to this thread with everything else for some reason, but I think they look better than what is shown above and a lot less 225/80 Commons-like

https://www.urbanohio.com/forum/index.php/topic,2062.msg912095.html#msg912095





Thanks. These look much much better.

Offline Toddguy

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #250 on: May 24, 2018, 12:26:53 PM »
Also, From where will the parking be accessed? Will it be a combo of 2nd and Price? If it were all accessed from Price then I can see it being probematic. But if one street is an entrance(like 2nd)and the other an exit(onto Price and then right to the light at High) I don't see the problem. Is the traffic going to have to traverse the lengths of 2nd and Price to Dennison or just the small strip by High? Price is pretty narrow down around Dennison.

Anyone know?

Offline ColDayMan

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #251 on: May 24, 2018, 03:13:55 PM »
Residents, developer continue to debate size of planned mid-rise in Victorian Village

The heated debate over a proposed mid-rise tower in Victorian Village continues, even as the plans evolve.

The Victorian Village Commission heard from developer Brett Kaufman Wednesday night as he continues to refine designs for a mixed-use development at the site of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers building at 23 W. 2nd Ave. and an adjacent parking lot.

More than a dozen area residents voiced their objections during the two-hour meeting.

Plans for the tower have changed a number of times, with Kaufman having shrunk the building from the 14-story plan brought forward in April to a tiered 12-story, 10-story and five-story trio of buildings.

"This is the brightest, shiniest part of Columbus where density is going to start to land and height is already there," Kaufman said. "We will … do our best to try to please as many as we can, but at the end of the day, we’re building a city and we want to do that in the most appropriate way possible.”

More below:
https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2018/05/24/residents-developer-continue-to-debate-size-of.html
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Offline jonoh81

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #252 on: May 25, 2018, 04:17:56 AM »
The census estimates coming out make larger projects like this even more of a "threat" and necessity.  Columbus' population growth is only accelerating, and housing construction has largely failed to recover from the recession of 2008-2010.  Inventory is low, prices are rising and demand is at record levels. There's increasing pressure, not to mention money to be made, on going larger in hot neighborhoods.  We've been seeing this even in places like Upper Arlington with the proposed 11-story there. 
This project is going to be built, and given the statements by Kaufman, it's going to be built as large as they can reasonably do.  They see the market and are responding to it. 

Offline wpcc88

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #253 on: May 25, 2018, 09:00:43 AM »
^ There is also this update to the Kaufman IBEW project.

Another Victorian Village Commission meeting is scheduled for tonight at 6PM regarding this project.  This is a special meeting with the Kaufman IBEW project as the only agenda item.  Apparently there is also another design revision (which there is a brief view of in the video at the WCMH/NBC4 link below):

http://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/victorian-village-residents-still-fighting-proposed-development/1192938001

Not at all surprised. The "lego" comment is totally valid, though. They need to show precedents in other cities if they haven't already -- and further explain that this is an EMPTY site and the potential tax advantages of having 200+ apartments on this small site. They are an urban-adjacent residential neighborhood. If not here then on High Street. What difference does it make? The Short North is only going to get wider... Might as well start here with a building that actually attempts to mitigate the difference in scale.

You're missing a huge point.  There are parking/traffic constraints already and this is along price which is a narrow one way street on one side and a primarily residential street that doesn't even feed down to Neil on the other.  People need to stop comparing this to Atlanta and NYC because it is not in any way similar.  I am 10000000000% for apartments and a project at that site, but not at it's proposed size. Something more like the Jerome, Aston Place or even something from Neighborhood Launch are more appropriate.

Oh for heaven's sake...it is along Price and 2nd and is what, 100 or 200 feet from High-which is where all of the traffic will be going. It sounds like you live right on this street and are being a NIMBY lol.  There is nothing wrong with the size or location. You don't put something like Neighborhood Launch here for God's sake. That is crazy. How far do you live from this project?-it sounds like you are very much more concerned about this one than any other project ever proposed for the city.


*now the materials, colors, quality, etc. -that is a different matter. And yes the thing on the Commons is a monstrosity and I agree I would be more concerned with that than the height on this. If it turns out like that thing, it will be disastrous. I will agree on that.

My point is the Neilston and Normandy both hold 130 units at 5 stories each.  If you bump those up to 7-8 stories versus 10-12 or 14 on the Price site, you have somewhere around 180-200+ units.  This project would be passed with minimal kickback at 7-8 stories of JUST residential, but Kaufman won't do that and they will be in for a fight for that reason.

Offline casey

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #254 on: May 25, 2018, 10:31:10 AM »
Remember that this project was already fully approved at 9 stories, and there was little to no opposition at the time. This whole thing that's going on now started up because Kaufman came back with the High St side bumped up to 14. It's already balanced out some to 12 now, and he seemed to indicate he would be open to 11, so I have some confidence he and the VVC will come to an agreement soon

I believe there's also a deadline he's working against in regards to needing to have it approved this summer to avoid the new affordable housing requirements the city is about to implement for the SN...

Offline aderwent

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #255 on: June 25, 2018, 09:57:09 AM »
Another Wood Companies aerial of Hubbard Park Place. 711 N High clearly visible as well.


Offline casey

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #256 on: June 25, 2018, 08:49:37 PM »
I know Wood Co has a lot going on right now (even that's a huge understatement), but I wonder if they'll ever dust off the plans to add 4-5 stories of apartments on the back side of the Winders Chevy (Hubbard Grille) building?

Offline wpcc88

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #257 on: June 26, 2018, 03:30:34 PM »
I know Wood Co has a lot going on right now (even that's a huge understatement), but I wonder if they'll ever dust off the plans to add 4-5 stories of apartments on the back side of the Winders Chevy (Hubbard Grille) building?

I would prefer them to build on the plaza at Price & High first.

Offline ColDayMan

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #258 on: July 12, 2018, 04:27:34 PM »
>:(

Kaufman walks away from contested mixed-use development in Short North



After 20 public meetings, constant residential resistance and a string of area commission rejections, Brett Kaufman says he's walking away from a mixed-use development he wanted to build in the Short North.

Technically, Kaufman's team requested to indefinitely table a proposal for the 10-story development at 23 W. 2nd Ave. after it failed to break a 3-3 deadlock of the Victorian Village Commission Wednesday night. But because of impending deadlines related to its tax abatements, he says he's out of time.

"I don't see a path forward at this point with the project," the Kaufman Development CEO told me after the hour-long meeting.

More below:
https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2018/07/12/kaufman-walks-away-from-contested-mixed-use.html
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Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #259 on: July 12, 2018, 04:48:52 PM »
They offered 9, 10, 12, and 14 story versions.  Wtf VV?
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Offline surfohio

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #260 on: July 12, 2018, 05:06:51 PM »
Disappointing news. Will future developers want to waste time gambling on this neighborhood?

Offline edale

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #261 on: July 12, 2018, 05:09:49 PM »
Columbus is a hot market. Something else will come around. Given the hideous project Kaufaman produced by Columbus Commons, I'd be thankful that they walked away from this project. Especially with that proposed black building. That might look decent in renderings, but I bet it would look terrible in actuality.

Offline wpcc88

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #262 on: July 12, 2018, 06:05:22 PM »
Not shocked, this development did not fit the area where it was located and given it's surroundings.  If they would've scaled down to 5 stories and built something that was appropriate for the neighborhood it is in it would've been approved. But like my dad used to say they were "trying to fit 10lbs of sh*t in a 5lbs bag."  It didn't fit and I'm glad the neighborhood fought back as strong as they did.

Offline jeremyck01

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #263 on: July 12, 2018, 08:52:42 PM »
Not shocked, this development did not fit the area where it was located and given it's surroundings.  If they would've scaled down to 5 stories and built something that was appropriate for the neighborhood it is in it would've been approved. But like my dad used to say they were "trying to fit 10lbs of sh*t in a 5lbs bag."  It didn't fit and I'm glad the neighborhood fought back as strong as they did.

"Appropriate for the neighborhood"    NIMBY silliness.  This project was exactly what Columbus needs more of. 

Offline ink

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #264 on: July 13, 2018, 06:57:57 AM »
Hopefully this is just a tactic to get more cooperation from the commission. Kaufman is one of the city’s best developers.

Offline cbussoccer

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #265 on: July 13, 2018, 07:49:55 AM »
Not shocked, this development did not fit the area where it was located and given it's surroundings.  If they would've scaled down to 5 stories and built something that was appropriate for the neighborhood it is in it would've been approved. But like my dad used to say they were "trying to fit 10lbs of sh*t in a 5lbs bag."  It didn't fit and I'm glad the neighborhood fought back as strong as they did.

The surface parking lot and vacant lot really blend in well with the fabric of the neighborhood though.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #266 on: July 13, 2018, 09:09:42 AM »
Hopefully this is just a tactic to get more cooperation from the commission. Kaufman is one of the city’s best developers.

I think you'll find mixed review on their work - particularly 600 Goodale and 250 80 on the Commons.

The VV Commission really needs to fill that 7th seat though.  Kaufman altered their proposal. what, four times?  Different heights, varying units, different parking setup.  It was 3-3 every time.

Spare me the "blot out the sun" talk.  It'd be less than a block affected.  Walk down the street to the park if you need the sun.
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Offline cbussoccer

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #267 on: July 13, 2018, 09:36:54 AM »
Hopefully this is just a tactic to get more cooperation from the commission. Kaufman is one of the city’s best developers.

Spare me the "blot out the sun" talk.  It'd be less than a block affected.  Walk down the street to the park if you need the sun.

The "blot out the sun" argument always kills me. Yea, if you plopped Rhode's Tower down right here you might have a bit of a shadow. A 10-14 story building is not going to do much damage though.

Offline tlb919

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #268 on: July 13, 2018, 09:54:58 AM »
Hopefully this is just a tactic to get more cooperation from the commission. Kaufman is one of the city’s best developers.

Spare me the "blot out the sun" talk.  It'd be less than a block affected.  Walk down the street to the park if you need the sun.

The "blot out the sun" argument always kills me. Yea, if you plopped Rhode's Tower down right here you might have a bit of a shadow. A 10-14 story building is not going to do much damage though.

Let's also not forget those using the "blot out the sun" argument have giant trees surrounding their house (per google maps) so its clearly NIMBYism at its worst. Gotta love all the character and integrity half paved surface lots contribute! Ridiculous.

Offline ink

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Re: Columbus: Victorian Village Developments and News
« Reply #269 on: July 13, 2018, 11:50:17 AM »
Hopefully this is just a tactic to get more cooperation from the commission. Kaufman is one of the city’s best developers.

I think you'll find mixed review on their work - particularly 600 Goodale and 250 80 on the Commons.


I agree. I don't like everything they have done--in fact most of it is not my personal taste--but they use high quality materials, good design firms, and almost always do something outside of the box. Take a look at Gravity in Franklinton. That's a very bold step in terms of both design and investment at this point in the neighborhood's revitalization.