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Author Topic: Cincinnati: Downtown: 84.51°  (Read 5373 times)

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Offline OCtoCincy

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #450 on: January 19, 2012, 08:29:53 PM »
The Federal Reserve tower renovation is taking old B/C class office space and turning it into apartments.

The City's plan with this site is to have a first floor that ties into the Macy's and Saks fifth avenue markets to support their business. 3CDC has recommended to the city to build a three-story underground parking structure the entire width of the block and under fifth Street- according to 3CDC, it would be nearly the same size as the Fountain Square garage- about 400 spaces.

Also, due to the massive size of the block, it's possible that it would be built into two towers, one with a commercial/office focus, and the other primarily residential. 

Offline natininja

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #451 on: January 19, 2012, 09:16:22 PM »
No more office buildings in downtown!!!!  We've already got pads for future office buildings at the banks, dozens of older buildings that need renovating and a sky high (no pun intended) vacancy rate.

We need more residents downtown-  I think it should be a really nice condo or apartment tower that's between 20 and 25 stories.

Just my personal opinion :)

That's why we should be converting some of the vacant office space into apartments and condos.  Especially some of the older, more unique buildings, like the old Enquirer building.

And I'd much rather see 4-story infill on all of the downtown parking lots than one giant 25-story apartment/condo tower.
Good points. I know I just posted about building a residential tower in the Banks thread, and as Atlas said, there's something to be said about the appeal of new construction. But there is quite a bit of vacant office space which is ripe for conversion. And as you point out, it would be much faster to get rid of all those pesky surface lots with lower buildings, which can also appeal to those who prefer new construction.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #452 on: January 19, 2012, 09:28:23 PM »
Did someone say surface parking lots?  Here is the thread with my photos of every downtown surface lot:
http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,11398.msg148248.html#msg148248



Those photos are all from 2004-05, and in six years only one of the lots has been built on, the condo at 4th & Central. 

Offline natininja

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #453 on: January 19, 2012, 09:41:49 PM »
The Federal Reserve tower renovation is taking old B/C class office space and turning it into apartments.

The City's plan with this site is to have a first floor that ties into the Macy's and Saks fifth avenue markets to support their business. 3CDC has recommended to the city to build a three-story underground parking structure the entire width of the block and under fifth Street- according to 3CDC, it would be nearly the same size as the Fountain Square garage- about 400 spaces.

Also, due to the massive size of the block, it's possible that it would be built into two towers, one with a commercial/office focus, and the other primarily residential. 
One of the very best things about recent development downtown is the embracement of underground parking. Unfortunately, it doesn't come cheap! But it does pave the way for creating a downtown where all off-street parking is underground, which would be amazing! Get those cars out of sight, out of mind, and out of the way.

I don't know of any other similarly sized American city which is embracing this solution to such a large degree, though that doesn't mean there aren't any. I guess Portland might be but I'm not familiar enough to know. Maybe they're mostly abandoning downtown parking lots and structures all together, which would be even better, but obviously isn't feasible here and now.

Offline Ram23

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #454 on: February 06, 2012, 11:20:59 AM »
Dunnhumby USA picks Fifth and Race

Dunnhumby USA will build its new headquarters at Fifth and Race, a prime slice of city-owned real estate long eyed for redevelopment.


Offline ink

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #455 on: February 06, 2012, 11:37:08 AM »
Great news!

Offline atlas

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #456 on: February 06, 2012, 11:39:15 AM »
good and bad news, depending on what you were hoping for.  But no mention of residential.  Lets hope this ends up with some affordable apartments. 

Offline mcadrenaline

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #457 on: February 06, 2012, 11:52:28 AM »
Yeah, it's interesting for sure..... I'm anxious for more details though!

Are we assuming this will be solely Dunnhumby with no other tenants or residential/hotel/etc portion?

I find it very hard to believe this large and important of a site would JUST be theirs. Seems like a prime site for mixed use...


Offline PhattyNati

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #458 on: February 06, 2012, 12:00:45 PM »
Here is to hoping Dunnhumby will demand something a little more innovative in terms of building design.  This will be exciting to follow.

Offline OCtoCincy

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #459 on: February 06, 2012, 12:03:15 PM »
3CDC has always viewed the site for two towers. It would Be way to big for 1.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 12:09:22 PM by OCtoCincy »

Offline mcadrenaline

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #460 on: February 06, 2012, 12:06:09 PM »
^^^ the good thing is that DH is definitely the type of company to utilize innovative design and creative use of space, so I would assume there's a safety net there.

Offline JYP

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #461 on: February 06, 2012, 12:12:45 PM »
If it is developed similar to QCS, the city will likely retain ownership of the land, the Port Authority may fund the garage and 3CDC will develop the building and manage it. We'll probably see two levels of retail and the possible utilization of the "skywalk to nowhere."

I really hope this tower (or these towers) are taller than the 14 story building that used to be there.
“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
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Offline OCtoCincy

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #462 on: February 06, 2012, 12:15:04 PM »
^ garage will likely be underground, slightly smaller than Fountain Square.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #463 on: February 06, 2012, 12:17:13 PM »
^Speaking of which, I'll try and dig up my photos of it being demo'd back in 1999.

Offline Rabbit Hash

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #464 on: February 06, 2012, 12:34:45 PM »
^Speaking of which, I'll try and dig up my photos of it being demo'd back in 1999.
Thanks Jake!

Would like to see those.

Offline CincyImages

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #465 on: February 06, 2012, 12:50:40 PM »
Excited to see what becomes of this location.

3CDC has always viewed the site for two towers. It would Be way to big for 1.

Interesting...

Offline richNcincy

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #466 on: February 06, 2012, 01:30:19 PM »
I hope renderings are close behind the announcement!

Offline Civvik

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #467 on: February 06, 2012, 01:40:32 PM »
Now the pressure is on to make the 5th and Race site mixed-use with an engaging retail front. If they plop a parking garage there and stick their offices on top of it like a birthday cake, it will be a travesty and continue the trend of the dying rustbelt city whoring its prime spots out to whatever once-in-a-blue-moon tenant wants it.

Disappointed. The Banks would have been a much more exciting spot.

Offline RockyMountainHigh

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #468 on: February 06, 2012, 01:49:08 PM »
Now the pressure is on to make the 5th and Race site mixed-use with an engaging retail front. If they plop a parking garage there and stick their offices on top of it like a birthday cake, it will be a travesty and continue the trend of the dying rustbelt city whoring its prime spots out to whatever once-in-a-blue-moon tenant wants it.

Disappointed. The Banks would have been a much more exciting spot.

I disagree. Fifth and Race has been as prominent of an ugly surface parking lot for a decade and in full view of visitors staying at the Hilton, Hyatt and Millennium hotels. It's high time to develop this land and start generating some revenue from it. And I would hope that the parking would be underground, ala Fountain Square and Washington Park.

Also, hopefully the development at Fifth and Race will generate some momentum for that part of downtown and lead to something happening at the Terrace hotel, the empty, dilapidated buildings on Sixth just to the north of the vacant lot and even spur Fifth Third to consider finally doing something with that nice three-story base of an office tower they built at Fountain Square West all those years ago.

Offline Ram23

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #469 on: February 06, 2012, 01:54:14 PM »
Now the pressure is on to make the 5th and Race site mixed-use with an engaging retail front. If they plop a parking garage there and stick their offices on top of it like a birthday cake, it will be a travesty and continue the trend of the dying rustbelt city whoring its prime spots out to whatever once-in-a-blue-moon tenant wants it.

Disappointed. The Banks would have been a much more exciting spot.

It won't be a parking garage with a tower on top, I can almost guarantee that.  3CDC has had some big site studies done, some of which you can find in the previous pages of this thread.  They all call for underground parking and retail.  They almost all call for two towers, as well, with a third on top of Macy's.  That has always been the plan for this spot, and I doubt the city would have pursued this tenant so adamantly unless everyone were on board.  Dunnhumby also is not the type of company to want a parking garage as the first few stories of their building.

Offline OCtoCincy

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #470 on: February 06, 2012, 02:06:37 PM »
^ word. Also, everyone seems to forget that they want 250,000 SF. The Banks website itself says it only room for a 250k sf building. That would mean if they want to expand further in 3-7 years they need to move AGAIN! 

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #471 on: February 06, 2012, 02:13:51 PM »
I was in the 5/3 skywalk lobby, right when they had torn down the walk, taking photos of the square reconstruction, and who appeared to be two execs were talking about the work, and one pointed out that "we own that", refering to the air rights above Lazarus.  If one of the higher ups didn't even know they had the rights, it's clear that they weren't anywhere close to doing something.  I have to wonder if Dunhumby ever explored building atop Macy's, or if 5/3 is truly holding onto those rights for itself, or even if 5/3 pushed the 5th & Race for Dunhumby in order to build the garage that will increase the value of their air rights and enable them to build.


Offline mcadrenaline

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #472 on: February 06, 2012, 02:15:49 PM »
I would urge everyone to look at 3CDC's track record in this city before making any assumptions about this project.

They don't play around and considering how crucial this project is to the CBD and the Fortune 500 "image" of this city, I would expect something solid. In terms of visibility, this site is almost as important as Fountain Square itself considering all the hotels, shopping and Duke Energy Center around.

Can't wait for more details and renderings. and fingers crossed for "retail" meaning grocery and a substantial residential/hotel component (one can dream, right?!)

Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #473 on: February 06, 2012, 02:16:08 PM »
Although I was originally hoping for them to choose The Banks site, I have been reconsidering and am happy they chose this site for the reason stated three posts above me. This site has the potential to house a much larger tower than they need at this moment. This, plus one or two floors of retail could result in a pretty decent floor count. I'm guessing that they will probably build on the southern half of the site, allowing for a future tower to be built on the northern half. I'm hoping the tower that gets built because of this move is mixed use and larger than just the needs of Dunhumby's, but even if it is solely for them, it will be great to see this spot used as something other than a surface lot.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 02:16:43 PM by jmicha »

Offline Caseyc

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #474 on: February 06, 2012, 02:27:30 PM »
^ word. Also, everyone seems to forget that they want 250,000 SF. The Banks website itself says it only room for a 250k sf building. That would mean if they want to expand further in 3-7 years they need to move AGAIN! 

This is the main reason they chose this over the Banks.  Keep in mind the Banks' office tower footprint also shrunk somewhat over over original plans, which was a handicap.

Offline mcadrenaline

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #475 on: February 06, 2012, 02:28:30 PM »
so assuming this will be 2 towers built in seperate phases, what would the vacant part of this site look like in the mean time? Do you think they would keep half surface parking, or perhaps use it for staging and trailers, etc?

Offline Ram23

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #476 on: February 06, 2012, 03:17:32 PM »
so assuming this will be 2 towers built in seperate phases, what would the vacant part of this site look like in the mean time? Do you think they would keep half surface parking, or perhaps use it for staging and trailers, etc?

This is just a guess, but I could see the retail portion covering the entire block above the underground parking, with a Dunnhumby tower above the southern half.  The retail on the northern half would stand as a base until a (hopefully) residential tower was feasible to build atop it.

Offline OCtoCincy

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #477 on: February 06, 2012, 03:21:29 PM »
^ I agree. But in terms of initial buildout, who knows.

Offline j3shafer

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #478 on: February 06, 2012, 03:49:11 PM »
Would love to see something with significant height to bring some balance back to the skyline but that's probably asking too much. Still, I'm happy to hear the news.

Offline seanian513

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown - Fifth & Race Redevelopment
« Reply #479 on: February 06, 2012, 04:47:52 PM »
I agree that it would be nice to see something that would stand out.  In terms of a tower that is architecturally dazzling and grand in height.  Definitely two towers would be optimal.  But with two towers and eventually the air space above Macy’s where another tower will eventually go, the planned below ground parking on that site with around 450 spaces doesn’t seem like much.  I’m definitely all for keeping the parking underground, but how low can they dig when building a tower in this area?  If it’s possible to go lower, then I would suggestion building as many underground levels as possible to allow for future parking for other towers.   If they can go just over double and get at least 1000 spaces or maybe even more, then that would help secure the other towers going in.  As it stands now, where would people park if a building goes in above Macy’s?  If two towers are going in, who thinks that 450 spaces would be enough?