Author Topic: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion  (Read 20521 times)

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Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1380 on: December 07, 2017, 06:45:07 PM »
Kind of a breakdown of the Shoreway project from Matt Zone on Ideastream.

http://www.ideastream.org/programs/ideas/remaking-clevelandís-shoreway-helps-remake-a-neighborhood

Link is not working for me, but I found it on their site and reposting here:   http://www.ideastream.org/programs/ideas/remaking-cleveland%E2%80%99s-shoreway-helps-remake-a-neighborhood

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1381 on: December 12, 2017, 09:21:30 AM »
Time to finish the project. Get rid of the Edgewater interchange and turn it into an intersection. Ditto for West 45th. And lengthen the ramps at West 28th....
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1382 on: December 12, 2017, 11:09:12 AM »
None of that applies here though.  It was conceived and built as a freeway, entirely within city limits, and served a distinctly urban population in Lakewood.  Public funds aren't being sought to widen it, in fact the polar opposite is true.  All in the service of this:

http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2017/12/battery_park_townhouse_offers.html

"Can't decide between city or suburban living? At Battery Park, you don't have to."

My favorite line:  "Downtown is just a $7 Uber ride away."

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1383 on: December 12, 2017, 11:23:17 AM »
Nope. It was built as a boulevard 100+ years ago, originally called Bulkley Boulevard then upgraded to a freeway with WPA funds during the Depression.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline freefourur

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1384 on: December 12, 2017, 11:24:33 AM »
^ I only learned about that a couple years ago when looking at a historical map.

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1385 on: December 12, 2017, 01:47:51 PM »
^ I only learned about that a couple years ago when looking at a historical map.
Nope. It was built as a boulevard 100+ years ago, originally called Bulkley Boulevard then upgraded to a freeway with WPA funds during the Depression.

The GPS on my car still calls it Buckley Blvd....

Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1386 on: December 12, 2017, 01:51:10 PM »
^ I only learned about that a couple years ago when looking at a historical map.
Nope. It was built as a boulevard 100+ years ago, originally called Bulkley Boulevard then upgraded to a freeway with WPA funds during the Depression.

The GPS on my car still calls it Buckley Blvd....

SOunds like you need to update to 2.0 haha

Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1387 on: December 12, 2017, 04:46:35 PM »
Nope. It was built as a boulevard 100+ years ago, originally called Bulkley Boulevard then upgraded to a freeway with WPA funds during the Depression.

That ranks it among the oldest of freeways.  So why malign a WPA project as if it were happening now?  Why malign people who oppose the shoreway conversion as if they were asking the city for money?  They aren't.  They live where they do because it's dense and walkable there, while the inner city pursues a more suburban development pattern.  This isn't a matter of Avon vs Downtown.  There's no benefit in pretending it is.   

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1388 on: December 12, 2017, 05:01:31 PM »
I'm one of the suburban people who travels through the Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood more often than I travel to it. And I do so at speeds higher than the posted limit because the design of the road has a greater influence on me than a road-side sign. But I'm also one of the people who recognizes that the livability of Detroit-Shoreway probably goes up greater than the livability of neighborhoods farther west goes down because I would have another a minute or two added to my commute by having two intersections added to the Shoreway. I'm willing to make a tiny sacrifice for the greater good of my metro area.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1389 on: December 13, 2017, 12:18:49 AM »
Nope. It was built as a boulevard 100+ years ago, originally called Bulkley Boulevard then upgraded to a freeway with WPA funds during the Depression.

That ranks it among the oldest of freeways.  So why malign a WPA project as if it were happening now?  Why malign people who oppose the shoreway conversion as if they were asking the city for money?  They aren't.  They live where they do because it's dense and walkable there, while the inner city pursues a more suburban development pattern.  This isn't a matter of Avon vs Downtown.  There's no benefit in pretending it is.   

I love how you're all "yay urbanism" until it costs you an extra 2 minutes on your auto commute.

Offline jjames0408

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1390 on: December 13, 2017, 01:17:54 AM »
To me it has nothing to do with added travel time. It's ridiculous that it's a 35 MPH limited access highway. There are no intersections, no crossings and there are on and off ramps. I would absolutely support it as it was originally talked about being redesigned, but for now, it's just a prettier version of what it already was.

Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1391 on: December 13, 2017, 10:04:32 AM »
To me it has nothing to do with added travel time. It's ridiculous that it's a 35 MPH limited access highway. There are no intersections, no crossings and there are on and off ramps. I would absolutely support it as it was originally talked about being redesigned, but for now, it's just a prettier version of what it already was.

Anyone want to take an educated guess as to how much a full redesign with actual intersections would cost? It would surely open up more room for development.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1392 on: December 13, 2017, 11:31:29 AM »
The original plan was to add intersections at West 45th Street, West 54th/Division Avenue and West 73rd, as well as close the West 28th ramps to/from the east. It was revised to remove the West 73rd intersection in 2011. Here's what that version included:
https://www.dot.state.oh.us/districts/D12/Documents/6.15.11%20Lakefront%20West%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

Considering the amount of earthmoving required and temporary roadways provided, I'm going to guess that the West 73rd intersection would cost about $20 million to $30 million.

Because the grade differences are minimal and the existing streets come so close to the mainline roadway of the West Shoreway, I'm going to estimate that the West 54th/Division and West 45th intersections could cost about $5 million each. I would also add Cleveland State Line station stops at each new intersection provided. If the West 73rd intersection is deemed too costly, then I would instead add a bus station stop at the West 76th pedestrian underpass. Total cost of this could be in the $15 million range.

As for West 28th, I'm not sure what can be done about this except perhaps to have the eastbound exit ramp to West 25th take away the high-speed lane until the West 28th eastbound entrance ramp restores the third lane. Westbound, I would install a traffic signal at the bottom of the West 28th ramp that would always be green for traffic exiting the Shoreway except when a pedestrian or car on West 28th actuates the signal for West 28th.
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Offline viscomi

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1393 on: December 13, 2017, 01:19:33 PM »
I wonder how much the cost was to reconstruct the Edgewater Drive underpass for the on-ramp as well as a rebuild of the Edgewater off-ramp.

Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1394 on: December 13, 2017, 01:24:02 PM »
Nope. It was built as a boulevard 100+ years ago, originally called Bulkley Boulevard then upgraded to a freeway with WPA funds during the Depression.

That ranks it among the oldest of freeways.  So why malign a WPA project as if it were happening now?  Why malign people who oppose the shoreway conversion as if they were asking the city for money?  They aren't.  They live where they do because it's dense and walkable there, while the inner city pursues a more suburban development pattern.  This isn't a matter of Avon vs Downtown.  There's no benefit in pretending it is.   

I love how you're all "yay urbanism" until it costs you an extra 2 minutes on your auto commute.

We may not entirely agree on what urbanism means.  And I work in Parma, so we aren't discussing "[my] auto commute."  Please stop making things personal. 

Offline jws

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1395 on: December 13, 2017, 01:35:07 PM »
W54 really should be a pedestrian-friendly intersection.

Here's the issue I see with the current setup: the new trail runs right along the northern side of the road (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4884662,-81.717388,3a,90y,256.01h,64.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGmAq36gHIxA_hkM5-iZg9Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) and there are no barriers. The median is now grass. The southern side is also far less imposing looking since it was rebuilt. It really doesn't look like it would be that hard to jaywalk.

If someone is walking along the trail and wants to quickly get to Detroit, I see no reason they aren't just going to dart across the Shoreway to W54 since it is so.damn.easy to do.

Offline PoshSteve

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1396 on: December 13, 2017, 10:45:49 PM »
As for West 28th, I'm not sure what can be done about this except perhaps to have the eastbound exit ramp to West 25th take away the high-speed lane until the West 28th eastbound entrance ramp restores the third lane. Westbound, I would install a traffic signal at the bottom of the West 28th ramp that would always be green for traffic exiting the Shoreway except when a pedestrian or car on West 28th actuates the signal for West 28th.

I use these ramps just about every day and came to the same conclusion for the entrance ramp. It seemed to work just fine as that set up when the lane was closed during construction. During the construction especially, but even on a normal day the rush hour traffic getting off at W28th backs up quite a bit onto the bridge, causing the shoreway to back up since one lane is being stopped. Most of that comes from W28th being completely backed up from the light on Detroit though, especially when someone is waiting to turn left. A left turn lane at Detroit would solve alot of those problems though, and probably eliminate the need for a light at the exit. Does anyone know if that's in the plan once they redo that street? Quite a bit of it is blocked off right now for construction at Quarter too, so the space will be there.

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1397 on: December 13, 2017, 10:58:33 PM »
To me it has nothing to do with added travel time. It's ridiculous that it's a 35 MPH limited access highway. There are no intersections, no crossings and there are on and off ramps. I would absolutely support it as it was originally talked about being redesigned, but for now, it's just a prettier version of what it already was.

Not 100% true.  From a design standpoint there is also a missing center median wall as well as multi-purpose trails right next to the roadway in a couple spots.   So the lower speed limit is definitely needed--even if it doesn't feel right. 

IMO they should extend the rush-hour bus/bike lane from Lake Rd to W 28th to help calm things just a bit.


Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1398 on: December 28, 2017, 04:49:33 PM »
Posted some historic photos and maps of the old Bulkley Boulevard as well as a couple of present-day comparison views at:

https://www.urbanohio.com/forum/index.php/topic,766.msg885939.html#msg885939

A sample.....

BulkleyBlvd-RRbridge-westward-1938s by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr
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Offline dergon darkhelm

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1399 on: April 27, 2018, 03:05:16 PM »
Edgewater live returns just in time for a single-lane West Shoreway


Quote
Construction on the Shoreway is scheduled for the entire summer, starting with the righthand lane on the Main Avenue Bridge closing in each direction until the end of May. Shortly following, construction will shift to the middle lane until early July, and then the left lane will close in July until the end of August.

Anyone who has driven on the Shoreway during Edgewater LIVE can attest to the gridlock that occurs during rush hour when all of the lanes are open. Shrinking the Shoreway down to one lane throughout all of this sounds like a recipe for disaster. Maybe bike over, use public transit, or ditch the car in Detroit-Shoreway and use one of the pedestrian tunnels instead.

On the bright side, driving in bumper to bumper traffic will finally appease the wishes of the 35 mph posted speed limit.

Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1400 on: April 27, 2018, 03:18:33 PM »
Edgewater live returns just in time for a single-lane West Shoreway


Quote
Construction on the Shoreway is scheduled for the entire summer, starting with the righthand lane on the Main Avenue Bridge closing in each direction until the end of May. Shortly following, construction will shift to the middle lane until early July, and then the left lane will close in July until the end of August.

Anyone who has driven on the Shoreway during Edgewater LIVE can attest to the gridlock that occurs during rush hour when all of the lanes are open. Shrinking the Shoreway down to one lane throughout all of this sounds like a recipe for disaster. Maybe bike over, use public transit, or ditch the car in Detroit-Shoreway and use one of the pedestrian tunnels instead.

On the bright side, driving in bumper to bumper traffic will finally appease the wishes of the 35 mph posted speed limit.

More access issues. It sure can be hard to enjoy the waterfront in this city lol. I don't see this changing anytime soon - at least not for events - until there's more north-south points of access, more on-street parking and of course better transit.

Offline dergon darkhelm

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1401 on: April 27, 2018, 03:50:45 PM »
Edgewater live returns just in time for a single-lane West Shoreway


Quote
Construction on the Shoreway is scheduled for the entire summer, starting with the righthand lane on the Main Avenue Bridge closing in each direction until the end of May. Shortly following, construction will shift to the middle lane until early July, and then the left lane will close in July until the end of August.

Anyone who has driven on the Shoreway during Edgewater LIVE can attest to the gridlock that occurs during rush hour when all of the lanes are open. Shrinking the Shoreway down to one lane throughout all of this sounds like a recipe for disaster. Maybe bike over, use public transit, or ditch the car in Detroit-Shoreway and use one of the pedestrian tunnels instead.

On the bright side, driving in bumper to bumper traffic will finally appease the wishes of the 35 mph posted speed limit.

More access issues. It sure can be hard to enjoy the waterfront in this city lol. I don't see this changing anytime soon - at least not for events - until there's more north-south points of access, more on-street parking and of course better transit.


Not for at least another generation.  We had our chance with the full vision of the Shoreway Blvd. project ... what we got instead was a half-measure that doesn't do much at all for the issues you cite.  :(

Offline gottaplan

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1402 on: April 27, 2018, 05:50:37 PM »
It's not that damn hard to get into Edgewater.  In a distance of 1 mile, from W. 65th to West Blvd, you can walk in to the park at 4 different locations.

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1403 on: April 27, 2018, 05:55:08 PM »
It's not that damn hard to get into Edgewater.  In a distance of 1 mile, from W. 65th to West Blvd, you can walk in to the park at 4 different locations.

It's really not. You can park on 59th-63rd in between herman and detroit and walk. its 10 mins

Offline freefourur

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1404 on: April 27, 2018, 05:57:08 PM »
It's not that damn hard to get into Edgewater.  In a distance of 1 mile, from W. 65th to West Blvd, you can walk in to the park at 4 different locations.

It's really not. You can park on 59th-63rd in between herman and detroit and walk. its 10 mins

Whiskey Island on the other hand...


Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1405 on: April 27, 2018, 05:59:48 PM »
It's not that damn hard to get into Edgewater.  In a distance of 1 mile, from W. 65th to West Blvd, you can walk in to the park at 4 different locations.

The fact that you or I can get there doesn't mean it's easy for others.



Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1406 on: April 27, 2018, 06:04:03 PM »
^Nothing easy is worth doing, amiright

Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1407 on: April 27, 2018, 06:08:06 PM »
^Nothing easy is worth doing, amiright

When you have kids you'll appreciate when things around you are a little bit easier.


Offline jam40jeff

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1408 on: April 27, 2018, 07:30:06 PM »
^Nothing easy is worth doing, amiright

When you have kids you'll appreciate when things around you are a little bit easier.

Eh, I think people are just lazy.  We have a 1, 3, and 5 year old and have taken all 3 of them on trips to a couple big cities, walked all over and even taken the subways with the stoller.  Sure, it's tougher than it was 6 years ago, but it's still manageable and fun.

Not to mention we go downtown as a family on the rapid sometimes to hang out at public square, walk around, and eat lunch somewhere on a weekend.

Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1409 on: April 27, 2018, 07:41:21 PM »
Not to mention we go downtown as a family on the rapid sometimes to hang out at public square, walk around, and eat lunch somewhere on a weekend.

No doubt. But one of the major problems for Edgewater is the lack of public transit.

When is the BRT going to stop there and help alleviate the traffic issues?