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Author Topic: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion  (Read 11291 times)

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Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1380 on: December 07, 2017, 04:55:55 PM »
Kind of a breakdown of the Shoreway project from Matt Zone on Ideastream.

http://www.ideastream.org/programs/ideas/remaking-clevelandís-shoreway-helps-remake-a-neighborhood

Link is not working for me, but I found it on their site and reposting here:   http://www.ideastream.org/programs/ideas/remaking-cleveland%E2%80%99s-shoreway-helps-remake-a-neighborhood

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1381 on: December 12, 2017, 07:32:18 AM »
Time to finish the project. Get rid of the Edgewater interchange and turn it into an intersection. Ditto for West 45th. And lengthen the ramps at West 28th....
"Many Americans are willing to die for their country. But pay taxes for it? No way." -- Me.

Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1382 on: December 12, 2017, 09:20:00 AM »
None of that applies here though.  It was conceived and built as a freeway, entirely within city limits, and served a distinctly urban population in Lakewood.  Public funds aren't being sought to widen it, in fact the polar opposite is true.  All in the service of this:

http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2017/12/battery_park_townhouse_offers.html

"Can't decide between city or suburban living? At Battery Park, you don't have to."

My favorite line:  "Downtown is just a $7 Uber ride away."

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1383 on: December 12, 2017, 09:34:05 AM »
Nope. It was built as a boulevard 100+ years ago, originally called Bulkley Boulevard then upgraded to a freeway with WPA funds during the Depression.
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Online freefourur

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1384 on: December 12, 2017, 09:35:21 AM »
^ I only learned about that a couple years ago when looking at a historical map.

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1385 on: December 12, 2017, 11:58:39 AM »
^ I only learned about that a couple years ago when looking at a historical map.
Nope. It was built as a boulevard 100+ years ago, originally called Bulkley Boulevard then upgraded to a freeway with WPA funds during the Depression.

The GPS on my car still calls it Buckley Blvd....

Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1386 on: December 12, 2017, 12:01:58 PM »
^ I only learned about that a couple years ago when looking at a historical map.
Nope. It was built as a boulevard 100+ years ago, originally called Bulkley Boulevard then upgraded to a freeway with WPA funds during the Depression.

The GPS on my car still calls it Buckley Blvd....

SOunds like you need to update to 2.0 haha

Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1387 on: December 12, 2017, 02:57:23 PM »
Nope. It was built as a boulevard 100+ years ago, originally called Bulkley Boulevard then upgraded to a freeway with WPA funds during the Depression.

That ranks it among the oldest of freeways.  So why malign a WPA project as if it were happening now?  Why malign people who oppose the shoreway conversion as if they were asking the city for money?  They aren't.  They live where they do because it's dense and walkable there, while the inner city pursues a more suburban development pattern.  This isn't a matter of Avon vs Downtown.  There's no benefit in pretending it is.   

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1388 on: December 12, 2017, 03:12:19 PM »
I'm one of the suburban people who travels through the Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood more often than I travel to it. And I do so at speeds higher than the posted limit because the design of the road has a greater influence on me than a road-side sign. But I'm also one of the people who recognizes that the livability of Detroit-Shoreway probably goes up greater than the livability of neighborhoods farther west goes down because I would have another a minute or two added to my commute by having two intersections added to the Shoreway. I'm willing to make a tiny sacrifice for the greater good of my metro area.
"Many Americans are willing to die for their country. But pay taxes for it? No way." -- Me.

Online X

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1389 on: December 12, 2017, 10:29:37 PM »
Nope. It was built as a boulevard 100+ years ago, originally called Bulkley Boulevard then upgraded to a freeway with WPA funds during the Depression.

That ranks it among the oldest of freeways.  So why malign a WPA project as if it were happening now?  Why malign people who oppose the shoreway conversion as if they were asking the city for money?  They aren't.  They live where they do because it's dense and walkable there, while the inner city pursues a more suburban development pattern.  This isn't a matter of Avon vs Downtown.  There's no benefit in pretending it is.   

I love how you're all "yay urbanism" until it costs you an extra 2 minutes on your auto commute.

Offline jjames0408

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1390 on: December 12, 2017, 11:28:42 PM »
To me it has nothing to do with added travel time. It's ridiculous that it's a 35 MPH limited access highway. There are no intersections, no crossings and there are on and off ramps. I would absolutely support it as it was originally talked about being redesigned, but for now, it's just a prettier version of what it already was.

Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1391 on: December 13, 2017, 08:15:20 AM »
To me it has nothing to do with added travel time. It's ridiculous that it's a 35 MPH limited access highway. There are no intersections, no crossings and there are on and off ramps. I would absolutely support it as it was originally talked about being redesigned, but for now, it's just a prettier version of what it already was.

Anyone want to take an educated guess as to how much a full redesign with actual intersections would cost? It would surely open up more room for development.

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1392 on: December 13, 2017, 09:42:17 AM »
The original plan was to add intersections at West 45th Street, West 54th/Division Avenue and West 73rd, as well as close the West 28th ramps to/from the east. It was revised to remove the West 73rd intersection in 2011. Here's what that version included:
https://www.dot.state.oh.us/districts/D12/Documents/6.15.11%20Lakefront%20West%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

Considering the amount of earthmoving required and temporary roadways provided, I'm going to guess that the West 73rd intersection would cost about $20 million to $30 million.

Because the grade differences are minimal and the existing streets come so close to the mainline roadway of the West Shoreway, I'm going to estimate that the West 54th/Division and West 45th intersections could cost about $5 million each. I would also add Cleveland State Line station stops at each new intersection provided. If the West 73rd intersection is deemed too costly, then I would instead add a bus station stop at the West 76th pedestrian underpass. Total cost of this could be in the $15 million range.

As for West 28th, I'm not sure what can be done about this except perhaps to have the eastbound exit ramp to West 25th take away the high-speed lane until the West 28th eastbound entrance ramp restores the third lane. Westbound, I would install a traffic signal at the bottom of the West 28th ramp that would always be green for traffic exiting the Shoreway except when a pedestrian or car on West 28th actuates the signal for West 28th.
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Offline viscomi

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1393 on: December 13, 2017, 11:30:21 AM »
I wonder how much the cost was to reconstruct the Edgewater Drive underpass for the on-ramp as well as a rebuild of the Edgewater off-ramp.

Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1394 on: December 13, 2017, 11:34:50 AM »
Nope. It was built as a boulevard 100+ years ago, originally called Bulkley Boulevard then upgraded to a freeway with WPA funds during the Depression.

That ranks it among the oldest of freeways.  So why malign a WPA project as if it were happening now?  Why malign people who oppose the shoreway conversion as if they were asking the city for money?  They aren't.  They live where they do because it's dense and walkable there, while the inner city pursues a more suburban development pattern.  This isn't a matter of Avon vs Downtown.  There's no benefit in pretending it is.   

I love how you're all "yay urbanism" until it costs you an extra 2 minutes on your auto commute.

We may not entirely agree on what urbanism means.  And I work in Parma, so we aren't discussing "[my] auto commute."  Please stop making things personal. 

Offline jws

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1395 on: December 13, 2017, 11:45:55 AM »
W54 really should be a pedestrian-friendly intersection.

Here's the issue I see with the current setup: the new trail runs right along the northern side of the road (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4884662,-81.717388,3a,90y,256.01h,64.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGmAq36gHIxA_hkM5-iZg9Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) and there are no barriers. The median is now grass. The southern side is also far less imposing looking since it was rebuilt. It really doesn't look like it would be that hard to jaywalk.

If someone is walking along the trail and wants to quickly get to Detroit, I see no reason they aren't just going to dart across the Shoreway to W54 since it is so.damn.easy to do.

Online PoshSteve

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1396 on: December 13, 2017, 08:56:37 PM »
As for West 28th, I'm not sure what can be done about this except perhaps to have the eastbound exit ramp to West 25th take away the high-speed lane until the West 28th eastbound entrance ramp restores the third lane. Westbound, I would install a traffic signal at the bottom of the West 28th ramp that would always be green for traffic exiting the Shoreway except when a pedestrian or car on West 28th actuates the signal for West 28th.

I use these ramps just about every day and came to the same conclusion for the entrance ramp. It seemed to work just fine as that set up when the lane was closed during construction. During the construction especially, but even on a normal day the rush hour traffic getting off at W28th backs up quite a bit onto the bridge, causing the shoreway to back up since one lane is being stopped. Most of that comes from W28th being completely backed up from the light on Detroit though, especially when someone is waiting to turn left. A left turn lane at Detroit would solve alot of those problems though, and probably eliminate the need for a light at the exit. Does anyone know if that's in the plan once they redo that street? Quite a bit of it is blocked off right now for construction at Quarter too, so the space will be there.

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1397 on: December 13, 2017, 09:09:21 PM »
To me it has nothing to do with added travel time. It's ridiculous that it's a 35 MPH limited access highway. There are no intersections, no crossings and there are on and off ramps. I would absolutely support it as it was originally talked about being redesigned, but for now, it's just a prettier version of what it already was.

Not 100% true.  From a design standpoint there is also a missing center median wall as well as multi-purpose trails right next to the roadway in a couple spots.   So the lower speed limit is definitely needed--even if it doesn't feel right. 

IMO they should extend the rush-hour bus/bike lane from Lake Rd to W 28th to help calm things just a bit.


Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Shoreway Boulevard Conversion
« Reply #1398 on: December 28, 2017, 03:00:21 PM »
Posted some historic photos and maps of the old Bulkley Boulevard as well as a couple of present-day comparison views at:

https://www.urbanohio.com/forum/index.php/topic,766.msg885939.html#msg885939

A sample.....

BulkleyBlvd-RRbridge-westward-1938s by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr
"Many Americans are willing to die for their country. But pay taxes for it? No way." -- Me.