Author Topic: Cleveland sidewalks  (Read 2858 times)

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Offline Clefan98

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2018, 10:03:22 PM »
Yet Lakewood is still losing population and their schools are below average compared to the other western suburban communities.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2018, 10:13:39 PM »
I started this thread with the intent to improve walking conditions in Cleveland by pointing out the deficiencies. It's not a personal attack. The sidewalks aren't your fault/achievement. So please don't get defensive about constructive criticism. We all win when Cleveland becomes a real "community of choice."
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline jeremyck01

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2018, 10:44:48 PM »
Yet Lakewood is still losing population and their schools are below average compared to the other western suburban communities.

To try to prove a point by saying Lakewood is "losing population" completely misses the point.  Lakewood has the hottest housing market in NEO.  Houses are selling within days.  There is not enough housing supply.  And their sidewalks are great.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2018, 11:04:36 PM »
That's not the point either. I frequently post about positive developments in Cleveland but I'm not taken to task about it, even though I don't live in Cleveland. But when I point out a shortcoming, that's apparently when I'm not allowed to say anything. Glad i wasn't held to that standard when I was a newspaper reporter--I never covered a city beat for a city I lived in, and I wrote positive and negative articles about each community.
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Offline jeremyck01

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2018, 02:39:47 AM »
That's not the point either. I frequently post about positive developments in Cleveland but I'm not taken to task about it, even though I don't live in Cleveland. But when I point out a shortcoming, that's apparently when I'm not allowed to say anything. Glad i wasn't held to that standard when I was a newspaper reporter--I never covered a city beat for a city I lived in, and I wrote positive and negative articles about each community.

I know what you mean. Iím just saying, if the other poster is going to point out negatives about Lakewood,, posting about population loss is not the way to go, since Lakewood is pretty hot right now.

And yes, itís a good thing reporters donít have residency requirements:)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 02:48:36 AM by jeremyck01 »

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2018, 03:42:51 PM »
It's not just Cleveland.....

@MobileHarv
In Columbus Ohio sidewalks are treated as property ownersí responsibilities rather than as transportation infrastructure.  Consequently, sidewalks are crumbling and in disrepair, making walking difficult and dangerous for older pedestrians.   
https://twitter.com/MobileHarv/status/1041674122022080512
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Offline Clefan98

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2018, 04:04:37 PM »
^
That's not the point either. I frequently post about positive developments in Cleveland but I'm not taken to task about it, even though I don't live in Cleveland. But when I point out a shortcoming, that's apparently when I'm not allowed to say anything. Glad i wasn't held to that standard when I was a newspaper reporter--I never covered a city beat for a city I lived in, and I wrote positive and negative articles about each community.

I know what you mean. Iím just saying, if the other poster is going to point out negatives about Lakewood,, posting about population loss is not the way to go, since Lakewood is pretty hot right now.

And yes, itís a good thing reporters donít have residency requirements:)

That's not the point either. I frequently post about positive developments in Cleveland but I'm not taken to task about it, even though I don't live in Cleveland. But when I point out a shortcoming, that's apparently when I'm not allowed to say anything. Glad i wasn't held to that standard when I was a newspaper reporter--I never covered a city beat for a city I lived in, and I wrote positive and negative articles about each community.

You can say anything you want about Cleveland, and I can do the same about Lakewood.  All my original post stated was that the city has fixed many bad sidewalks in my neighborhood, along with an increased amount of street sweeping... Giving the city credit apparently sets some off on this site.  Your post "this is how Lakewood does it" was an unnecessary and off topic dig.  But if you want to play that game...Ok, let's play.
 
Clifton Ave is great example of where Cleveland got it right and Lakewood failed miserably....Here are two pics from yesterday while I ate breakfast at Landmark.  In the 30min I was there, the pedestrian traffic on Lakewood's side was non-existent, while Cleveland's sidewalks were busy as hell.  At a major intersection (w117 and Clifton) Lakewood decided a gas station and poorly designed pharmacy was good enough for its residents.  Thankfully, Cleveland pushed for better. 


Offline Clefan98

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2018, 04:10:03 PM »
That's not the point either. I frequently post about positive developments in Cleveland but I'm not taken to task about it, even though I don't live in Cleveland. But when I point out a shortcoming, that's apparently when I'm not allowed to say anything. Glad i wasn't held to that standard when I was a newspaper reporter--I never covered a city beat for a city I lived in, and I wrote positive and negative articles about each community.

I know what you mean. Iím just saying, if the other poster is going to point out negatives about Lakewood,, posting about population loss is not the way to go, since Lakewood is pretty hot right now.

And yes, itís a good thing reporters donít have residency requirements:)

A hot real estate market doesn't mean a city is growing...Using 2017 estimates, Lakewood lost 14% of it's population since 1990. 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 04:15:55 PM by Clefan98 »

Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2018, 04:24:16 PM »
That Walgreens Pharmacy, from what I remember, is like the most profitable location in the region. While it's not great urban design it's been there for a long long time.

Also Clifton Ave West of W117 was pretty much in good condition prior to the Clifton streetscape. It didn't need the complete overhaul that was done East of W117.

Anyhow I'm hopeful that one day pedestrians and cyclists will be able to cross Clifton without the fears of being run over.

Offline Clefan98

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2018, 04:36:26 PM »
Profits over people. Cool.  The gas station and poorly designed pharmacy kill that intersection. Oh well, Cleveland got it right.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 04:39:29 PM by Clefan98 »

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2018, 04:49:12 PM »
Thankfully, Cleveland pushed for better. 


Bad example. Aside from the NE corner, the land uses predate their city's uses of zoning. The CVS was a Clark Restaurant, with the portion closest to the intersection built in 1937. There's been a gas station at the SW corner of Clifton/West 117th since at least the 1920s based on old photos I've seen. The Lee Solding Building on the SE corner in Cleveland dates from 1940. The only zoning-era building built at this intersection was the Clifton Shoppes, which the city of Cleveland does deserve credit for pushing it to the sidewalk -- just as Lakewood did in getting the Walgreen's store to build up to the corner at West 117th and Detroit. But the NE corner was previously occupied by a heavily remodeled 1920s-era building that came up to the sidewalks. The developers built these buildings where they did before cities gained legal teeth to guide land use.

But, what do the land uses along the sidewalks have to do with the condition of the sidewalks? Thanks for taking this thread off topic.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline Clefan98

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2018, 04:51:04 PM »
^ what does police response times have to do with Cleveland sidewalks? You canít bully me off of here.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2018, 04:51:47 PM »
^ what does police response times have to do with Cleveland sidewalks? You canít bully me off of here.

Not trying to. Take care.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline PoshSteve

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2018, 06:55:38 PM »
It's not just Cleveland.....

@MobileHarv
In Columbus Ohio sidewalks are treated as property ownersí responsibilities rather than as transportation infrastructure.  Consequently, sidewalks are crumbling and in disrepair, making walking difficult and dangerous for older pedestrians.   
https://twitter.com/MobileHarv/status/1041674122022080512

Personally I think it should be a city's responsibility to maintain all of the sidewalks. Not only is the current way of putting it on the property owner bad for older pedestrians, it can be bad for older homeowners who often don't have extra funds to make repairs. That though would require higher taxes (particularly in smaller cities and suburbs), and that would likely be more unpopular with residents than the status quo of having to fix it themselves. For what we have now, stepped up code enforcement can go a long way to remedying the situation. From the previous page, Lakewood seems to have a good idea at it. To bring it back to the original post, there should be no excuse when that property owner is the City of Cleveland itself, or the land bank.

I will say too, I lived in Cleveland up until this spring, and honestly had no terrible issues with the sidewalks with all the walking I did around OC and Downtown. The only memorable trouble spot was the north side of Superior Ave, between W3 and W6, with the foot wide cracks between each block.

Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #44 on: September 17, 2018, 07:39:26 PM »
Clifton Ave is great example of where Cleveland got it right and Lakewood failed miserably....Here are two pics from yesterday while I ate breakfast at Landmark.  In the 30min I was there, the pedestrian traffic on Lakewood's side was non-existent, while Cleveland's sidewalks were busy as hell.  Lakewood decided a gas station and poorly designed pharmacy was good enough for its residents.  Thankfully, Cleveland pushed for better. 

Cleveland's side is mostly retail, Lakewood's side is mostly residential.  That's why you see different foot traffic.  There's a gas station on the Cleveland side too, a couple blocks down.  Who cares.  Plenty of other stuff to draw pedestrians. 

It is strange there's no mixed-use in this corner of Lakewood, but that goes back 100 years.

Offline Clefan98

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #45 on: September 18, 2018, 03:43:32 PM »
Today I noticed the city is adding brick crosswalks to the w54th and w58th intersections @ detroit Ave.  They look v. nice and are a huge improvement over what was there. 

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2018, 04:13:43 PM »
This is also a nice touch, at Clifton/Lake by Edgewater Park.....

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Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2018, 04:32:27 PM »
I'm pretty ecstatic that "close walk to Edgewater Park" is now a very real selling point in real estate listings. I wasn't sure I would see these changes happen in my lifetime.

Offline jeremyck01

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2018, 10:02:52 PM »
This is also a nice touch, at Clifton/Lake by Edgewater Park.....



This looks good.  It's an adhesive polymer with the look of brick (from a distance) without the maintenance issues or cost of brick, although I don't know the official term for the material.  Brick stickers, lol.

Offline freefourur

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #49 on: September 18, 2018, 10:13:15 PM »
how do they hold up?

Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #50 on: September 19, 2018, 11:23:36 AM »
how do they hold up?


Yeah, Particularly after several freeze/thaw cycles

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #51 on: September 19, 2018, 11:30:35 AM »
how do they hold up?


Yeah, Particularly after several freeze/thaw cycles

And Cleveland's yahoo snowplow drivers....

Offline Clefan98

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #52 on: September 19, 2018, 11:55:37 AM »
how do they hold up?

I'm sure fine considering there are brick streets over 100yrs old that are in better shape than most roads in NEO.

Offline Clefan98

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #53 on: September 19, 2018, 11:56:00 AM »
how do they hold up?


Yeah, Particularly after several freeze/thaw cycles

And Cleveland's yahoo snowplow drivers....

Who at city hall hurt you?

Offline freefourur

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #54 on: September 19, 2018, 11:58:05 AM »
how do they hold up?

I'm sure fine considering there are brick streets over 100yrs old that are in better shape than most roads in NEO.

But these are installed the same way that brick roads are.  Brick pavers are usually installed in sand and not glued down like these.  I am just interested in whether these have been in use a while.

Offline Clefan98

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #55 on: September 19, 2018, 12:00:13 PM »
^ The ones at Clifton and w117 still look good, and I believe those were installed in the Fall of 2015.

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #56 on: September 19, 2018, 12:02:34 PM »
how do they hold up?


Yeah, Particularly after several freeze/thaw cycles

And Cleveland's yahoo snowplow drivers....

Who at city hall hurt you?

LOL no one personally.  I just know a few snowplow drivers...and you should hear the stories! 

On a broader scale I find our city government to be inept, bloated and not very good and delivering services to residents.  I wonder how many were employed in the 1950's, at the peak of Cleveland's population?  Have yet to be able to find this number...


Offline freefourur

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #57 on: September 19, 2018, 12:05:52 PM »
^ The ones at Clifton and w117 still look good, and I believe those were installed in the Fall of 2015.

Good to hear.  Lakewood has been doing stamped concrete whenever roads are repaved.  I wonder if this is more cost effective.

Offline Clefan98

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #58 on: September 19, 2018, 12:11:11 PM »
^ Not sure, but that's a good question....I do like the brick crosswalks better because of the contrast in color/material.  They appear to stand out more to drivers.

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland sidewalks
« Reply #59 on: September 19, 2018, 08:37:06 PM »
^ The ones at Clifton and w117 still look good, and I believe those were installed in the Fall of 2015.

Those were stamped concrete rather than these new adhesive "bricks".   I give the new ones one winter...