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Author Topic: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra  (Read 6043 times)

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Online YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #90 on: February 05, 2018, 12:52:26 PM »
I've always been fascinated with how scams like this work, but confused as to how you could pull that off without also messing with the odds... which they may well be doing.

From my limited understanding - you essentially malnourish the horse for its early races, so it places poorly. Then, in the weeks coming up to the fixed race, it's fed well and injected with steroids. 

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #91 on: February 05, 2018, 01:09:38 PM »
So... since I started this thread to talk about the current mob... before @OC17 went full Sean Hannity on everyone....

Back on track, I was with some friends this weekend who claim that a huge portion of the mob's activity today runs out of Thistledown, Northfield Park, and some track in Youngstown where they match up their best horses against the weakest lineups.

I have no insight into how this works, but this sounds like a very traditional mob activity, no?

I know of the man most likely involved in this. He was a top racehorse breeder locally and his family followed in his footsteps. You'll see him and his family mentioned in this case from a dozen years ago (along with a few other connected guys): https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCOURTS-ohnd-1_05-cv-02726/pdf/USCOURTS-ohnd-1_05-cv-02726-17.pdf

Some 15 years ago, much of the mob's activity around the racetracks was loansharking. I visited some of the businesses out of which they operated, which were public businesses like billiards halls and restaurants. But when you walked in, everyone inside would immediately look at you. Lots of guys without necks in these places! One of the loansharks I met was a guy whose initials were AG and he went by the nickname of Yumpy. As far as I know he's still around.

Much of the mob's newfound activity 15 years ago when I stopped reporting on it was getting into viaticals, medical claims (Medicare, Workers Comp, etc) fraud, instant bingo, investment scams, warranty scams, and other white-collar stuff. Just as I was leaving, there was a young (my age -- which shows how old many of the top mob guys are/were), rising star in Cleveland's mob world who owned a well-known downtown restaurant but he was big into financial scams. Goes by the nickname "Mass" and was indicted but not convicted for his alleged role in a gambling ring run by Virgil Ogletree and exposed by Tony Delmonte (owned the Drip Stick in the Warehouse District). Wise guys also have their mobbed-up attorneys file lost luggage claims with the airlines (getting thousands of dollars in settlements for lost suits, golf clubs, etc). They received expensive, stolen cars that they had to drive to other cities to be sold off and chopped up for parts, then kickback part of the profits up the organization. The ran cleaning companies that cased businesses and then had burglars steal from them. One of the burglars I interviewed preferred to steal from the homes of drug dealers because they wouldn't go to the police. One drug dealer was a well known real estate developer in Lorain County with a funny nickname. And there were some convoluted schemes involving labor unions -- medical scams, merger scams, insurance scams, etc. These would net millions of dollars per year. It requires a mobbed-up union president/business manager and at least several mobbed-up union board members to provide cover. All you have to do is check the backgrounds of some of these union folks and who they know (simple Google searches can ferret this out) to figure out which unions are mobbed up. A hint -- some of these unions are very small (less than 200 members) but are very important financial scam mechanisms.
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Online YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #92 on: February 05, 2018, 01:29:56 PM »
^Really happy I started this thread @KJP ... Definitely seems to tickle your fancy. Great stuff.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 01:33:05 PM by YABO713 »

Online freefourur

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #93 on: February 05, 2018, 01:32:27 PM »
KJP could get a job as FBI agent investigating organized crime.

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #94 on: February 05, 2018, 01:37:16 PM »
Uh, no thanks. I enjoyed the discovery, not the people. They are filth. I get my jollies today digging into history and making discoveries of things not commonly known.
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Offline skorasaurus

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #95 on: February 05, 2018, 02:35:24 PM »
The private investigator is still around. There's a reason I no longer look into current organized crime activities. I'm not interested in going back to my old life, before I got married and had a kid to raise. And my cop friend violated departmental policies by looking up the license plate numbers for me. I may not be a journalist anymore, but I will continue to protect those sources for the rest of my life.

And yes, there are limits to those who aren't cowboys trying to prove themselves in mob-land. Killing a journalist is generally not accepted behavior in the underworld. However, a friend of mine who wrote about mob stuff for Scene got knocked unconscious in an alley in the Warehouse District. He was blind-sided by someone. He wasn't robbed either. Nothing was missing from his person. They just wanted to send a message. I made it a rule to avoid alleys late at night. He didn't. He left Scene soon thereafter. Too bad, he was a good reporter.
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Offline E Rocc

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #96 on: February 05, 2018, 03:58:21 PM »
The video looks like it was taken in the middle of the night with all the businesses closed.

If thatís the case, and the guys off camera were doing things like looking into windows and/or cars, then yes they were suspicious. 

They had to know this.  Iíd say they were larping and seeking exactly the reaction they got.

Online YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #97 on: February 05, 2018, 04:20:36 PM »
The video looks like it was taken in the middle of the night with all the businesses closed.

If thatís the case, and the guys off camera were doing things like looking into windows and/or cars, then yes they were suspicious. 

They had to know this.  Iíd say they were larping and seeking exactly the reaction they got.


I kind of agree with you. The "we're not welcome here" tone was set from the outset of the video with the warning about the alley

Online freefourur

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #98 on: February 05, 2018, 09:16:58 PM »
^ the whole encounter looked staged to me. 

Offline E Rocc

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #99 on: February 06, 2018, 05:49:04 AM »
The video looks like it was taken in the middle of the night with all the businesses closed.

If thatís the case, and the guys off camera were doing things like looking into windows and/or cars, then yes they were suspicious. 

They had to know this.  Iíd say they were larping and seeking exactly the reaction they got.


I kind of agree with you. The "we're not welcome here" tone was set from the outset of the video with the warning about the alley

At 2am in a closed down business district I pretty much guarantee most suburban police departments would have at least queried them.

Offline russoguitar

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #100 on: March 18, 2018, 10:08:50 AM »
"Interesting"neighborhood ....South Collinwood. One of my memories was a moment in time in 1993,  when for the first time.. I entered the Dorchester Club (formerly The Green Lantern) with an acquaintance who lived on Nathaniel, who had a pass key..fit right in the front of the door. Because all pubs/bars have hotel keys to let you in. Yep. Lol. I knew immediately...this could be a life changing moment. 😉 I miss those days.

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #101 on: March 30, 2018, 02:02:25 PM »
"Many Americans are willing to die for their country. But pay taxes for it? No way." -- Me.

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #102 on: May 17, 2018, 08:36:27 AM »
Redirected from the Cleveland Lumen thread...

What, no speculations about finding Jimmy Hoffa down there??

The only Cleveland connection with Hoffa's disappearance/murder is that Big Bill Presser and his son Jackie reportedly financed the hit team. Their private plane made a stop in Cleveland to pick up the cash on their way from New Jersey to suburban Detroit. Why New Jersey? Because that's where Anthony "Tony Pro" Provenzano lived and had scrap yard operations. He also had a scrap yard in Detroit, which is probably where Hoffa was taken after he was abducted from the Machus Red Fox Restaurant in Bloomfield Township, MI. Hoffa was likely shredded along with many car parts and melted down. His body is probably interlaced into many multiple metallic objects today.
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Online YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #103 on: May 17, 2018, 10:49:08 AM »
^Chill, @KJP ... those are my cousins.

Online Dougal

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #104 on: May 17, 2018, 11:12:39 AM »
^Chill, @KJP ... those are my cousins.

I was in the Navy with Tony Pro's nephew.  :)  Very nice kid, except he allegedly threatened to off his wife, which got him a discharge. 
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Online YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #105 on: May 17, 2018, 11:39:29 AM »
^Chill, @KJP ... those are my cousins.

I was in the Navy with Tony Pro's nephew.  :)  Very nice kid, except he allegedly threatened to off his wife, which got him a discharge. 

I was referring to the Pressers. And mainly in jest. While my family is connected, we're Irish - Pressers were always just close family friends and "Uncle Jackie" to a lot of cousins.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 11:41:38 AM by YABO713 »

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #106 on: May 17, 2018, 12:27:56 PM »
^Chill, @KJP ... those are my cousins.

A friend of mine who was in "this thing" was related to Milton "Maishe" Rockman. Maishe was the Meyer Lansky of Cleveland -- the Jewish financial brains behind a lot of the Italian Mafia's dealings in Cleveland. Like Lansky, I don't believe he ever did any hard time.
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Online YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #107 on: May 17, 2018, 12:59:41 PM »
Very cool @KJP ... "Black Jack" McGinty was my Grandmother's uncle. He built the Mounds Club in Cleveland, the Desert Inn in Vegas. Another fun fact, along with Meyer Lansky, he financed what is now Hotel Nacional in Havana, Cuba as a casino and resort. I was the first member of my family to visit the hotel when I traveled to Cuba, as he never actually got to step foot in it after it opened.



Black Jack McGinty




Mounds Club



The Desert Inn



Hotel Nacional de Cuba
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 01:05:48 PM by YABO713 »

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #108 on: May 17, 2018, 04:07:19 PM »
McGinty was tight with a man named Moe Dalitz, a Jewish gangster who grew up in Detroit but made his bones in Cleveland and ran numerous casinos around Greater Cleveland such as the Harvard Club on the southeast side, and just across the county line in corrupt Geauga County, as well as in Covington, KY. These included the Mounds Club that @YABO713 spoke of, plus the Pettibone Club (across Pettibone from what was the Grandview Race Track) plus the Jungle Inn and Colony Club.

BTW, for those who don't know the name Moe Dalitz but do know the name Bugsy Siegel, Hollywood has done a disservice to you. Bugsy was a New York gangster sent to a dusty railroad whistle stop town called Las Vegas, Nevada to build casinos and run them for the Mafia. But Bugsy pocketed the mob's money and fell behind schedule and over budget in building the casinos. So they shot him through the eye at his home in Los Angeles. Instead, they sent Dalitz who had a proven track record of building and operating casinos in Ohio and finished the job. Dalitz is the man behind Las Vegas' success story, not Siegel. It's a big reason why Cleveland was one of the few Mafia cities entitled to received a share of Las Vegas' skimming profits for decades to come, later exposed in the Strawman case and highlighted in the movie Casino. Dalitz avoided getting swept up in the Strawman case and died peacefully at home in 1989 at the age of 89. Maishe Rockman was one of the Clevelanders (along with Underboss Angelo "Big Ange" Lonardo) who delivered the skim from Las Vegas to Cleveland. Rockman was sent to prison but was soon released due to medical issues and died at home in 1994. Lonardo, born in 1911 and was present for the beginnings of the Cleveland La Cosa Nostra during Prohibition, died in 2006. He was also one of the highest ranking mafioso to become a government witness against his mob pals. Here's a recent article https://themobmuseum.org/blog/mob-boss-lonardo-government-witness-anniversary/

BTW, this is an interesting read about the Cleveland area casinos -- http://chardonthoughtsatlarge.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-pettibone-club.html
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 04:15:53 PM by KJP »
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Online freefourur

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #109 on: May 17, 2018, 04:11:04 PM »
McGinty was tight with a man named Moe Dalitz, a Jewish gangster who grew up in Detroit but made his bones in Cleveland and ran numerous casinos around Greater Cleveland such as the Harvard Club on the southeast side, and just across the county line in corrupt Geauga County, as well as in Covington, KY. These included the Mounds Club that @YABO713 spoke of, plus the Pettibone Club (across Pettibone from what was the Grandview Race Track) plus the Jungle Inn and Colony Club.

BTW, for those who don't know the name Moe Dalitz but do know the name Bugsy Siegel, Hollywood has done a disservice to you. Bugsy was a New York gangster sent to a dusty railroad whistle stop town called Las Vegas, Nevada to build casinos and run them for the Mafia. But Bugsy pocketed the mob's money and fell behind schedule and over budget in building the casinos. So they shot him through the eye at his home in Los Angeles. Instead, they sent Dalitz who had a proven track record of building and operating casinos in Ohio and finished the job. Dalitz is the man behind Las Vegas' success story, not Siegel. It's a big reason why Cleveland was one of the few Mafia cities entitled to received a share of Las Vegas' skimming profits for decades to come, later exposed in the Strawman case and highlighted in the movie Casino. Dalitz avoided getting swept up in the Strawman case and died at home in 1989. Maishe Rockman was one of the Clevelanders (along with Underboss Angelo "Big Ange" Lonardo) who delivered the skim from Las Vegas to Cleveland. Rockman was sent to prison but was soon released due to medical issues and died at home in 1994. Lonardo, born in 1911 and was present for the beginnings of the Cleveland La Cosa Nostra during Prohibition, died in 2006. He was also one of the highest ranking mafioso to become a government witness against his mob pals. Here's a recent article https://themobmuseum.org/blog/mob-boss-lonardo-government-witness-anniversary/

Is Bugsy the guy that promised a 10% cut to 30 people?

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #110 on: May 17, 2018, 04:16:47 PM »

Is Bugsy the guy that promised a 10% cut to 30 people?

Don't know that one. Possibly.
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Offline Mildtraumatic

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #111 on: May 17, 2018, 05:10:19 PM »
A 10 percent cut. That means one finger is coming off.

Offline E Rocc

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #112 on: May 17, 2018, 08:29:46 PM »
McGinty was tight with a man named Moe Dalitz, a Jewish gangster who grew up in Detroit but made his bones in Cleveland and ran numerous casinos around Greater Cleveland such as the Harvard Club on the southeast side, and just across the county line in corrupt Geauga County, as well as in Covington, KY. These included the Mounds Club that @YABO713 spoke of, plus the Pettibone Club (across Pettibone from what was the Grandview Race Track) plus the Jungle Inn and Colony Club.

BTW, for those who don't know the name Moe Dalitz but do know the name Bugsy Siegel, Hollywood has done a disservice to you. Bugsy was a New York gangster sent to a dusty railroad whistle stop town called Las Vegas, Nevada to build casinos and run them for the Mafia. But Bugsy pocketed the mob's money and fell behind schedule and over budget in building the casinos. So they shot him through the eye at his home in Los Angeles. Instead, they sent Dalitz who had a proven track record of building and operating casinos in Ohio and finished the job. Dalitz is the man behind Las Vegas' success story, not Siegel. It's a big reason why Cleveland was one of the few Mafia cities entitled to received a share of Las Vegas' skimming profits for decades to come, later exposed in the Strawman case and highlighted in the movie Casino. Dalitz avoided getting swept up in the Strawman case and died peacefully at home in 1989 at the age of 89. Maishe Rockman was one of the Clevelanders (along with Underboss Angelo "Big Ange" Lonardo) who delivered the skim from Las Vegas to Cleveland. Rockman was sent to prison but was soon released due to medical issues and died at home in 1994. Lonardo, born in 1911 and was present for the beginnings of the Cleveland La Cosa Nostra during Prohibition, died in 2006. He was also one of the highest ranking mafioso to become a government witness against his mob pals. Here's a recent article https://themobmuseum.org/blog/mob-boss-lonardo-government-witness-anniversary/

BTW, this is an interesting read about the Cleveland area casinos -- http://chardonthoughtsatlarge.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-pettibone-club.html

Thomas Club was in Maple Heights as well.

Dalitz is an icon in Vegas, and his mob past never gets mentioned.

That Vegas skim was also why Cleveland was the third city in the mob, behind Chicago and NYC, and had its own seat on the Commission.

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #113 on: May 17, 2018, 11:51:59 PM »
The Cleveland family's standing in its pre-1960s heyday is debatable.

The only non-New York City families to have seats on the Commission were:

Chicago Outfit (1931-present)
Buffalo family (1931-1974)
Philadelphia family (1961-1980)
Detroit Partnership (1961-1977)

Cleveland was represented on the Commission by the Genovese family.
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Offline E Rocc

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #114 on: May 18, 2018, 06:07:08 AM »
The Cleveland family's standing in its pre-1960s heyday is debatable.

The only non-New York City families to have seats on the Commission were:

Chicago Outfit (1931-present)
Buffalo family (1931-1974)
Philadelphia family (1961-1980)
Detroit Partnership (1961-1977)

Cleveland was represented on the Commission by the Genovese family.

Some historians say Frank Milano was an original member and a few claim Anthony was later on.

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #115 on: May 18, 2018, 08:01:37 AM »
There were several meetings in different parts of the Great Lakes/Northeast of national Mafiosi at which Frank Milano attended before the meetings were formalized into the Commission by Luciano. One of them was held at the Statler Hotel in Cleveland. It is likely Milano organized at least that meeting.
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Offline heynow

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #116 on: Yesterday at 03:11:24 AM »
I just learned through a friend of mine in law enforcement that there are currently 17 "Made" members of the Cleveland outfit of LCN.

I was also told that this makes it the fifth largest in the country, behind NY, Philly, Chicago, and Las Vegas. Additionally, that number has grown by 4 since 2011.

I personally was unaware of the extent to which the mafia still operated in Cleveland. Though, from my understanding, their schemes have evolved and now involve cyber elements to supplement the lost revenue from gambling and loan sharking.

Let me guess nature boy is the boss. I think your security guard freind is watching to many movies .

Online YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #117 on: Yesterday at 08:42:32 AM »
I just learned through a friend of mine in law enforcement that there are currently 17 "Made" members of the Cleveland outfit of LCN.

I was also told that this makes it the fifth largest in the country, behind NY, Philly, Chicago, and Las Vegas. Additionally, that number has grown by 4 since 2011.

I personally was unaware of the extent to which the mafia still operated in Cleveland. Though, from my understanding, their schemes have evolved and now involve cyber elements to supplement the lost revenue from gambling and loan sharking.

Let me guess nature boy is the boss. I think your security guard freind is watching to many movies .


I don't believe security guards train at Quantico - unless Paul Blart started his own camp there.

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #118 on: Yesterday at 08:52:35 AM »
Nature Boy has occasionally pretended to be boss by organizing Italian-American meet ups in Little Italy and inviting only those who were connected or wanted to be.

But one of the most powerful guys in Northeast Ohio is someone you never hear about. He's very connected, both politically and in business too. And he's brutal. He gave his snitch brother the Fredo treatment back in the 1980s, courtesy of his private airplane's tampered engine -- allegedly.
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Offline Pugu

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Re: Cleveland: La Cosa Nostra
« Reply #119 on: Yesterday at 10:28:46 AM »
who is Nature Boy? And, who, if you dare say, is the guy you never hear about?