Author Topic: The Republican Party  (Read 33599 times)

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Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #900 on: July 26, 2018, 12:40:24 PM »
https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/1022105841414090752?s=19

Is the Tea Party going to "take the country back?" They've been clear - $1 trillion deficits are unacceptable.

Offline 327

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #901 on: July 26, 2018, 12:43:33 PM »
Now this is genuinely interesting.  I would not go so far as to say that the progress we have made in the last 10,000 years was just luck, no.  But I do think a significant amount of what you identify as "progress" from hitting each other with sticks to discussing why we shouldn't is because the sticks are now nuclear weapons, and further that we are indeed very lucky historically that America was the first country to develop the atomic bomb, and not the USSR or Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan.

More generally, though, a lot can hide in your expression "over time and in the aggregate."  That's a lot of "time" and a lot of "aggregate."  Over time and in the aggregate, we've recovered from the fall of the Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire, from the European wars of religion in the 16th and 17th centuries, etc.  But that's not a very satisfying way of essentially explaining away or minimizing the impact of those major setbacks.

Also, a lot of progress has happened because bullies were unable to squash it, not because they forgot--an obvious example relevant the "deep history" of America being the signing of the Magna Carta in 1215, to say nothing of the American Revolution.

That said, I do think that there is still a fair amount of truth in the notion that being good is a net survival positive.  In particular, a political system that guarantees civil and political rights and an economic system that allows free enterprise tend to maximize the possible values and strengths of all members of a society (again--to use your own phrase--"over time and in the aggregate"), which gives them a significant survival advantage over any aristocratic or plutocratic society in which wide swathes of the population are viewed as just tools or cannon fodder by the elites making the real decisions.  But I still get nervous about how far to walk down that road because of the risk of a circular argument (i.e., assuming that X is "good" because it is useful for survival of the group and/or the individual).  One could posit circumstances in which survival requires doing some very not good things.

Progress happens every time good prevails and 1215 is often cited as an early example.  Exodus too, if we want to go a bit earlier.  Athenian democracy?  Why not.  The circular argument you propose is not the one I'm making.  Good isn't defined by what it takes to survive.  But, in the aggregate, what it takes to survive ends up trending toward good.  Thus in some cases, the easier or more self-serving choice (e.g. I can take all the food so I will) may not be the best choice, due to aggregated consequences.

I can't believe I'm sitting here arguing in favor of decency as a concept.  But I'll do what must be done!

Offline DEPACincy

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #902 on: July 26, 2018, 12:53:26 PM »
What happened with Obamacare's passage was typical politics. Did it leave a bad taste in some people's mouths? Sure. But to compare it to what the GOP has been doing and what Trumps is doing is absolutely insane.

Offline Gramarye

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #903 on: July 26, 2018, 01:05:01 PM »
Now this is genuinely interesting.  I would not go so far as to say that the progress we have made in the last 10,000 years was just luck, no.  But I do think a significant amount of what you identify as "progress" from hitting each other with sticks to discussing why we shouldn't is because the sticks are now nuclear weapons, and further that we are indeed very lucky historically that America was the first country to develop the atomic bomb, and not the USSR or Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan.

More generally, though, a lot can hide in your expression "over time and in the aggregate."  That's a lot of "time" and a lot of "aggregate."  Over time and in the aggregate, we've recovered from the fall of the Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire, from the European wars of religion in the 16th and 17th centuries, etc.  But that's not a very satisfying way of essentially explaining away or minimizing the impact of those major setbacks.

Also, a lot of progress has happened because bullies were unable to squash it, not because they forgot--an obvious example relevant the "deep history" of America being the signing of the Magna Carta in 1215, to say nothing of the American Revolution.

That said, I do think that there is still a fair amount of truth in the notion that being good is a net survival positive.  In particular, a political system that guarantees civil and political rights and an economic system that allows free enterprise tend to maximize the possible values and strengths of all members of a society (again--to use your own phrase--"over time and in the aggregate"), which gives them a significant survival advantage over any aristocratic or plutocratic society in which wide swathes of the population are viewed as just tools or cannon fodder by the elites making the real decisions.  But I still get nervous about how far to walk down that road because of the risk of a circular argument (i.e., assuming that X is "good" because it is useful for survival of the group and/or the individual).  One could posit circumstances in which survival requires doing some very not good things.

Progress happens every time good prevails and 1215 is often cited as an early example.  Exodus too, if we want to go a bit earlier.  Athenian democracy?  Why not.  The circular argument you propose is not the one I'm making.  Good isn't defined by what it takes to survive.  But, in the aggregate, what it takes to survive ends up trending toward good.  Thus in some cases, the easier or more self-serving choice (e.g. I can take all the food so I will) may not be the best choice, due to aggregated consequences.

I can't believe I'm sitting here arguing in favor of decency as a concept.  But I'll do what must be done!

I'm not asking you to argue decency as a concept, though.  That's easy.  Decency as a survival strategy is not an inherent or obvious connection, though.  (Churchill let one of his own cities get bombed, costing his own countrymen lives, rather than reveal that the Allies had cracked German crypto, for example.)

Offline 327

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #904 on: July 26, 2018, 01:20:12 PM »
Strategic tradeoffs in war are what they are; that's a complex analysis to get into.  I'm talking about what isn't.  Robbing the Germans blind after WWI opened the door for WWII.  That's where decency came into play there.  (E.g., I can take all the food so I will.)  Lesson One:  Don't take all the food, even if you can.

Offline surfohio

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #905 on: July 26, 2018, 03:21:40 PM »
Anyone else see this? Check the video for yourself. If I was a betting type I'd say this guy is a great big phony.

http://www.kulr8.com/story/38643291/video-goes-viral-about-bozeman-mans-flag

Offline YABO713

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #906 on: July 26, 2018, 03:25:01 PM »
Anyone else see this? Check the video for yourself. If I was a betting type I'd say this guy is a great big phony.

http://www.kulr8.com/story/38643291/video-goes-viral-about-bozeman-mans-flag

Agreed. Like the guy that got caught spraypainting "blacks rule" on his own driveway

Offline Cleburger

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #907 on: July 27, 2018, 12:24:03 AM »
https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/1022105841414090752?s=19

Is the Tea Party going to "take the country back?" They've been clear - $1 trillion deficits are unacceptable.

I managed to get myself on the Tea Party email list at one point.  Clearly they no longer care about budgets and fiscal responsibility (as if they ever did).  They are all about promoting Trumpism, whether it be the Wall, authoritarian ICE stops, etc...

Offline X

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #908 on: July 27, 2018, 12:38:09 AM »
Why if I didn't know better, I'd think maybe there was some other, non-fiscal reason that a bunch of doughy middle-aged white guys started protesting the minute a black man got elected president!

Offline freefourur

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #909 on: July 27, 2018, 08:53:23 AM »
Republicans, including Trump, were crying about being shadow banned on Twitter.  It turns out they were just playing their victim card like usual.


Offline KJP

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #910 on: August 07, 2018, 07:04:24 PM »
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline mu2010

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #911 on: August 07, 2018, 09:08:26 PM »
Quote
Ryan’s big ideas ossified in college — that heady time of imbalance between intellectual self-confidence and one’s actual experience of life. Most of us recover; Ryan did not. Thus his distressingly attenuated enthusiasm for the novels of Ayn Rand.

I could not agree more with how this is worded. This is exactly where libertarians come from. I went to the same college as Paul Ryan and entertained many of the same ideas that he holds. The difference is that I grew out of it after one or two years in the real world (Incidentally, those first years out of college were right in the great recession). Paul Ryan had Daddy's money shielding him from that so he remains intellectually 20 years old.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #912 on: August 08, 2018, 09:31:15 AM »
"He put out a really good tweet last night" - Paul Ryan on Trump.

Offline KJP

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #913 on: August 08, 2018, 10:04:58 AM »
New York GOP Rep. Chris Collins arrested over insider trading charges
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/york-gop-rep-chris-collins-132700095.html
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #914 on: August 08, 2018, 02:20:38 PM »
New York GOP Rep. Chris Collins arrested over insider trading charges
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/york-gop-rep-chris-collins-132700095.html

The law and order party.

Offline Cleburger

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #915 on: August 08, 2018, 03:57:16 PM »
New York GOP Rep. Chris Collins arrested over insider trading charges
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/york-gop-rep-chris-collins-132700095.html

The law and order party.

Sadly gerrymandering has taken it's toll on Collins' district and it's probably fairly reliable for a Trump-style Congressman.  I'd almost hope Collins beats the charges and stays in place, because at least he's a little sane....

Offline X

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #916 on: August 08, 2018, 04:20:04 PM »
That says a lot about the current Republican Party that a criminal might be the best we can hope for from them.

Offline KJP

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #917 on: August 11, 2018, 07:49:02 PM »
In Montana race, Green Party candidate was on GOP’s payroll
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/montana-race-green-party-candidate-was-gops-payroll
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline jonoh81

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #918 on: August 11, 2018, 08:37:42 PM »
In Montana race, Green Party candidate was on GOP’s payroll
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/montana-race-green-party-candidate-was-gops-payroll

Just more banana republic, 3rd world politics.  GOP 2020!

Offline KJP

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #919 on: August 11, 2018, 09:14:43 PM »
If the GOP can't beat them on the issues, cheat!
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline KJP

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #920 on: August 12, 2018, 03:48:05 PM »
This is the “Unite the Right”’rally crowd. All of them.
https://twitter.com/GarrettHaake/status/1028724342644006912
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline ck

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #921 on: August 12, 2018, 04:14:22 PM »
^ and yet we give it an extreme amount of attention.  I'd like to understand how many people are actively engaging in these rallies and how it's changed since it's been given so much media attention.  I have a suspicion that this group is fueled by the media attention and the core of it is small.  I wonder if this is the best way to mitigate their influence.

Offline KJP

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #922 on: August 12, 2018, 04:18:28 PM »
Probably because everyone (not just the media) expected it to be larger. Even the transit authority was going to run special trains so avoid trouble on the Metro. But this turnout couldn't even fill one car of one train.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline KJP

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #923 on: August 14, 2018, 10:13:24 AM »
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline freefourur

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #924 on: August 14, 2018, 10:15:34 AM »
Missouri Republican who said ‘Hitler was right’ wins state House primary
https://www.jpost.com/American-Politics/Missouri-Republican-who-said-Hitler-was-right-wins-state-House-primary-564637

But but Dinesh D'Souza told me that Nazis are leftists. 

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #925 on: August 14, 2018, 10:19:31 AM »

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #926 on: August 14, 2018, 02:17:13 PM »
http://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20180814/melissa-howard-reverses-course-drops-out-of-race-after-degree-scandal

A GOP state house candidate in Florida finally drops out of the race after lying about graduating from Miami University (Oxford, Ohio) and then doubling down and posting a photo of her with a fake diploma.

Offline KJP

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #927 on: August 14, 2018, 05:24:43 PM »
Rep. Stephen Lynch Destroys Republicans for holding 100 hearing into Hillary Clinton's email server AND Only 2 on Russia's interference into the 2016 election

https://twitter.com/TomthunkitsMind/status/1029292885005541376
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline KJP

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #928 on: August 14, 2018, 06:06:13 PM »
It’s sad to witness, in his final chapter, John McCain is mistreated by the party he was so loyal to his entire career.
https://twitter.com/tweetmommybop/status/1029154190218731520
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Republican Party
« Reply #929 on: August 15, 2018, 10:53:41 AM »
https://www.cookpolitical.com/analysis/house/house-overview/house-three-more-gop-seats-join-toss-column

House: Three More GOP Seats Join the Toss Up Column

Quote
For Republicans, the 2018 House playing field is a lot like a game of Whack-a-Mole: everywhere they turn, new problems keep popping up in surprising places. In January, we rated 20 GOP-held seats as Toss Ups or worse, including three leaning towards Democrats. With today's changes, we now rate 37 GOP-held seats as Toss Ups or worse, including ten leaning towards Democrats.

Full ratings here: https://www.cookpolitical.com/ratings/house-race-ratings

The only Dem seats that are toss-ups or leaning Republican are open House seats.  27 currently held GOP seats are rated as toss-ups, while 10 more are Dem leans or likely Democratic.  Another 50 GOP-held seats are "only" likely Republican or lean Republican.