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Author Topic: The Trump Presidency  (Read 251473 times)

OldBearcat, gottaplan, TheCOV, edale, roman totale XVII (+ 1 Hidden) and 15 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online edale

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16800 on: May 17, 2018, 02:28:43 PM »
Look, I think everyone (or 99% of the population) wants MS-13 gang members prosecuted, deported, etc.  Right?  Maybe I'm being too generous there, I don't know.

Creating a path to citizenship for the majority of undocumented immigrants.  Aka DACA.  Which Trump killed.

DACA doesn't create a path to citizenship for the majority of undocumented immigrants. I believe there are something like 700,000 people registered for DACA, and most estimates have the number of illegal immigrants at close to 11 million. LA County alone is said to have 1 million undocumented immigrants.

I think we do need to create a path to citizenship for some of the illegal immigrants in this country, but I am also supportive of efforts to remove people in the most humane way possible. These people jumped the line, and are illegally living in another country, and yes, collecting benefits that are not entitled to them. The LA public school system is overcrowded, underfunded, and poorly performing. A large part of that is due to the insane amount of undocumented kids, or kids of illegal immigrants. Imagine just crossing the border to Canada, illegally staying there, and then expecting Canadian tax payers to fund your children's education, your transportation, affordable housing, etc. Crazy! I know a lot of these people are fleeing pretty desperate situations, but the level of entitlement to think the US owes these people anything is something I can't really wrap my head around. Everyone talks about the horrible housing crisis in CA, but almost no one talks about the toll illegal immigrants play in that. Same with traffic and transportation management. We have immigration rules, in part, so government agencies can plan for growth so we don't end up with situations like housing crises and the like. Of course, saying any of this in CA would be extremely frowned upon. Political ads here don't even use the term undocumented or illegal- they just say 'immigrants' as if those with legal standing are just the same as those without. They literally won't even acknowledge that there is a difference, much less a problem.

Offline eastvillagedon

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16801 on: May 17, 2018, 02:33:53 PM »
^and just for the record, Trump didn't kill DACA; Congress did, by being inflexible in its negotiations with him.

Online freefourur

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16802 on: May 17, 2018, 02:34:36 PM »
^and just for the record, Trump didn't kill DACA; Congress did, by being inflexible in its negotiations with him.

^ wrong.  he killed it.  don't try to rewrite history.

Online KJP

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16803 on: May 17, 2018, 02:54:52 PM »
The President of the United States just pledged "very strong protections" to a brutal #NorthKorean dictator to remain in power as part of any deal. That is a remarkable thing. What, if anything, has Kim pledged the US?
https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/997185894858874880
"Many Americans are willing to die for their country. But pay taxes for it? No way." -- Me.

Online freefourur

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16804 on: May 17, 2018, 02:56:08 PM »
The President of the United States just pledged "very strong protections" to a brutal #NorthKorean dictator to remain in power as part of any deal. That is a remarkable thing. What, if anything, has Kim pledged the US?
https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/997185894858874880

Kim has Trump right where he wants him.  Trump is too thirsty for this win and Kim knows it.  Only Trump would figure out a way to give the upper hand to Kim.  Art of the Deal. 

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16805 on: May 17, 2018, 03:08:31 PM »
DACA doesn't create a path to citizenship for the majority of undocumented immigrants. I believe there are something like 700,000 people registered for DACA, and most estimates have the number of illegal immigrants at close to 11 million. LA County alone is said to have 1 million undocumented immigrants.

Please explain how killing DACA makes it easier to find and apprehend MS-13 gang members (I believe the opposite to be true).  I'll wait.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16806 on: May 17, 2018, 03:13:38 PM »
http://www.businessinsider.com/kushner-companies-deal-with-qatar-billionaire-to-save-666-fifth-avenue-2018-5

Jared Kushner's family company is nearing a major real estate bailout with a company tied to Qatar's government

Using the Presidency to save their own dumb ***es.  MAGA! Or wait, is this Drain the Swamp!

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16807 on: May 17, 2018, 03:14:49 PM »
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/388185-house-committee-rebukes-trump-on-zte

Quote
Lawmakers say ZTE has been a national security threat, not only breaking American sanctions, but allegedly stealing intellectual property on behalf of the Chinese government.

Cool, cool, cool.

Offline Ram23

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16808 on: May 17, 2018, 03:15:18 PM »
The President of the United States just pledged "very strong protections" to a brutal #NorthKorean dictator to remain in power as part of any deal. That is a remarkable thing. What, if anything, has Kim pledged the US?
https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/997185894858874880

Unfortunately Obama set a series of terrible precedents in Libya and Iran, so the United States doesn't have much leverage when it comes to dealing with North Korea. With Libya, Gaddafi complied with disarmament demands and was eventually overthrown and bombed by NATO. Iran took advantage of this fact and weaseled their way into one of the most lopsided deals in the history of American foreign policy. Kim knows he's not getting the handout Iran got but he has to get some assurance he won't get the backstabbing Libya got.

Also, I know the source of that Tweet works for CNN so I wouldn't expect him to be all that informed, but North Korea has repeatedly pledged to denuclearize. I'm not sure why he posed that question. That's really the only goal here - we don't want them to have weapons capable of harming the United States. Kim staying in power has pretty much always been a prerequisite for that to happen peacefully.

Online freefourur

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16809 on: May 17, 2018, 03:16:54 PM »
The President of the United States just pledged "very strong protections" to a brutal #NorthKorean dictator to remain in power as part of any deal. That is a remarkable thing. What, if anything, has Kim pledged the US?
https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/997185894858874880

Unfortunately Obama set a series of terrible precedents in Libya and Iran, so the United States doesn't have much leverage when it comes to dealing with North Korea. With Libya, Gaddafi complied with disarmament demands and was eventually overthrown and bombed by NATO. Iran took advantage of this fact and weaseled their way into one of the most lopsided deals in the history of American foreign policy. Kim knows he's not getting the handout Iran got but he has to get some assurance he won't get the backstabbing Libya got.

Also, I know the source of that Tweet works for CNN so I wouldn't expect him to be all that informed, but North Korea has repeatedly pledged to denuclearize. I'm not sure why he posed that question. That's really the only goal here - we don't want them to have weapons capable of harming the United States. Kim staying in power has pretty much always been a prerequisite for that to happen peacefully.

Can you please explain what was lopsided about the Iran deal?  Please provide details.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16810 on: May 17, 2018, 03:17:52 PM »
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/democrats-crew-ask-mnuchin-recusal-cohen-sara

Quote
In multiple letters sent since late 2017, Democratic lawmakers have asked Mnuchin to recuse himself from the Russia probe, and to detail any information Treasury has received about potential illegal activities by Trump and his associates.

ďHave you ever directed, or has any other Trump administration official, Trump campaign official, or Trump family member called on you to direct U.S. Treasury officials or staff members to obscure, destroy, or withhold information implicating the president, Trump campaign officials, Trump family members, or his associates?Ē the Democrats wrote in January.

They received no response from Mnuchin.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16811 on: May 17, 2018, 03:17:59 PM »
Anyway, if that's your goal, you know what would make it easier to apprehend dangerous gang members?  Creating a path to citizenship for the majority of undocumented immigrants.  Aka DACA.  Which Trump killed.  Because by the rules required within DACA, no dangerous gang member is going to make it through.

Wishful thinking.  At best.  To be perfectly frank, I don't understand the logic of this at all.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16812 on: May 17, 2018, 03:21:43 PM »
Quote
After North Korea denounced Boltonís talk of a Libya model for North Korean denuclearization, Trump says:

"The Libya model isn't a model we have at all," Trump tells reporters in the Oval Office, fully distancing himself from John Bolton's repeated statements on North Korea

LOL wow.  This is sad.  Kim has Trump publicly throwing John Bolton under the bus.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16813 on: May 17, 2018, 03:22:08 PM »
Anyway, if that's your goal, you know what would make it easier to apprehend dangerous gang members?  Creating a path to citizenship for the majority of undocumented immigrants.  Aka DACA.  Which Trump killed.  Because by the rules required within DACA, no dangerous gang member is going to make it through.

Wishful thinking.  At best.  To be perfectly frank, I don't understand the logic of this at all.

So you have nothing to offer?  Cool.

Online freefourur

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16814 on: May 17, 2018, 03:23:48 PM »
Quote
After North Korea denounced Boltonís talk of a Libya model for North Korean denuclearization, Trump says:

"The Libya model isn't a model we have at all," Trump tells reporters in the Oval Office, fully distancing himself from John Bolton's repeated statements on North Korea

LOL wow.  This is sad.  Kim has Trump publicly throwing John Bolton under the bus.

This is sad.  Trump is begging Kim for a meeting.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16815 on: May 17, 2018, 03:25:50 PM »
https://www.buzzfeed.com/anthonycormier/trump-moscow-micheal-cohen-felix-sater-campaign?utm_term=.ttO131AJ0#.mq9xyxKJn

The Definitive Story Of How Trumpís Team Worked The Trump Moscow Deal During The Campaign

Quote
"In May, six weeks before the GOP convention in Cleveland, Sater asked Cohen when he and Trump would go to Moscow. In a text message, Cohen replied: ďMY trip before Cleveland. Trump once he becomes the nominee after the convention.Ē

Quote
"On Oct. 28, 2015, the day of the third Republican presidential debate, Trump personally signed the letter of intent."

Online Gramarye

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16816 on: May 17, 2018, 03:26:32 PM »
Anyway, if that's your goal, you know what would make it easier to apprehend dangerous gang members?  Creating a path to citizenship for the majority of undocumented immigrants.  Aka DACA.  Which Trump killed.  Because by the rules required within DACA, no dangerous gang member is going to make it through.

Wishful thinking.  At best.  To be perfectly frank, I don't understand the logic of this at all.

So you have nothing to offer?  Cool.

 ::)

Online YABO713

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16817 on: May 17, 2018, 03:26:57 PM »
Quote
After North Korea denounced Boltonís talk of a Libya model for North Korean denuclearization, Trump says:

"The Libya model isn't a model we have at all," Trump tells reporters in the Oval Office, fully distancing himself from John Bolton's repeated statements on North Korea

LOL wow.  This is sad.  Kim has Trump publicly throwing John Bolton under the bus.

This is sad.  Trump is begging Kim for a meeting.

I actually don't know if that's it. Trump might be completely unaware of what Bolton has said.

Online freefourur

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16818 on: May 17, 2018, 03:29:19 PM »
Quote
After North Korea denounced Boltonís talk of a Libya model for North Korean denuclearization, Trump says:

"The Libya model isn't a model we have at all," Trump tells reporters in the Oval Office, fully distancing himself from John Bolton's repeated statements on North Korea

LOL wow.  This is sad.  Kim has Trump publicly throwing John Bolton under the bus.

This is sad.  Trump is begging Kim for a meeting.

I actually don't know if that's it. Trump might be completely unaware of what Bolton has said.

Kim said he won't meet because of these comments.  Now Trump is saying c'mon Kim we won;t have a Libya model for you. You will be protected. It is incredibly weak. Trump is cucking out here for real.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16819 on: May 17, 2018, 04:00:47 PM »
http://thehill.com/homenews/news/388111-disclosure-shows-trump-earned-40m-in-2017-from-dc-hotel

Quote
President Trump, according to his financial disclosure report, earned $40 million last year from his companyís hotel in Washington, D.C., USA Today reports.

Trump earned $40.7 million in the 2017 calendar year. He earned $19.6 million from January 2016 to mid-April 2017, according to a previous financial report.

More than $350,000 in campaign funds contributed to the hotelís revenue, 60 percent coming from events hosted by the Republican National Committee, according to an analysis by USA Today.

Grifter-in-Chief!

The hotel only has 263 rooms.  $40m in PROFIT?? LOL  Yeah, ok.  263 x 365 = just under 96,000 room nights in a calendar year.  Assuming the hotel has ZERO expenses (which of course isn't true) and the hotel had every room booked, every night of the year (also not true), that's $416.67/night per room.  Now, hotels typically run a profit margin of around 30% so for the $40m in profit to be true (and that's assuming the profit goes directly to Trump) then all rooms would have to be booked every night of the year for an average of $1,388.90.

Quote
In February, the Trump Organization donated $151,470 to the United States Treasury as part of a pledge to donate foreign government profits from all its of properties. The company has not released a detailed accounting of its foreign customers.

$151k out of $40+m came from foreign governments? LOL.

Reminder - Jimmy Carter sold his peanut warehouse for $1.2 million.

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1981/03/06/Carter-peanut-warehouse-sold-for-12-million/4348352702800/

Online edale

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16820 on: May 17, 2018, 04:07:59 PM »
DACA doesn't create a path to citizenship for the majority of undocumented immigrants. I believe there are something like 700,000 people registered for DACA, and most estimates have the number of illegal immigrants at close to 11 million. LA County alone is said to have 1 million undocumented immigrants.

Please explain how killing DACA makes it easier to find and apprehend MS-13 gang members (I believe the opposite to be true).  I'll wait.

I said nothing of MS-13. Nor did I say killing DACA was a good thing, or that it made it easier to find anyone. Perhaps you posted the wrong quote? You can fix it. I'll wait.

Online surfohio

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16821 on: May 17, 2018, 04:33:13 PM »
Quote
After North Korea denounced Boltonís talk of a Libya model for North Korean denuclearization, Trump says:

"The Libya model isn't a model we have at all," Trump tells reporters in the Oval Office, fully distancing himself from John Bolton's repeated statements on North Korea

LOL wow.  This is sad.  Kim has Trump publicly throwing John Bolton under the bus.

This is sad.  Trump is begging Kim for a meeting.

I actually don't know if that's it. Trump might be completely unaware of what Bolton has said.

Kim said he won't meet because of these comments.  Now Trump is saying c'mon Kim we won;t have a Libya model for you. You will be protected. It is incredibly weak. Trump is cucking out here for real.

Who the hell is steering our foreign policy? Is it Trump? or Bolton?

God help us in either case.

Offline jonoh81

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16822 on: May 17, 2018, 05:30:14 PM »
If broadening the context is permitted, then it's equally fair to note that his wife is an immigrant.

His wife is a white European.  Trump hasn't exactly been campaigning on deporting them.  It's the immigrants from non-white "shithole" countries that he clearly has the problem with.  Because... Trump is a dirty racist. 

Offline jonoh81

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16823 on: May 17, 2018, 05:36:54 PM »
Look, I think everyone (or 99% of the population) wants MS-13 gang members prosecuted, deported, etc.  Right?  Maybe I'm being too generous there, I don't know.

Creating a path to citizenship for the majority of undocumented immigrants.  Aka DACA.  Which Trump killed.

DACA doesn't create a path to citizenship for the majority of undocumented immigrants. I believe there are something like 700,000 people registered for DACA, and most estimates have the number of illegal immigrants at close to 11 million. LA County alone is said to have 1 million undocumented immigrants.

I think we do need to create a path to citizenship for some of the illegal immigrants in this country, but I am also supportive of efforts to remove people in the most humane way possible. These people jumped the line, and are illegally living in another country, and yes, collecting benefits that are not entitled to them. The LA public school system is overcrowded, underfunded, and poorly performing. A large part of that is due to the insane amount of undocumented kids, or kids of illegal immigrants. Imagine just crossing the border to Canada, illegally staying there, and then expecting Canadian tax payers to fund your children's education, your transportation, affordable housing, etc. Crazy! I know a lot of these people are fleeing pretty desperate situations, but the level of entitlement to think the US owes these people anything is something I can't really wrap my head around. Everyone talks about the horrible housing crisis in CA, but almost no one talks about the toll illegal immigrants play in that. Same with traffic and transportation management. We have immigration rules, in part, so government agencies can plan for growth so we don't end up with situations like housing crises and the like. Of course, saying any of this in CA would be extremely frowned upon. Political ads here don't even use the term undocumented or illegal- they just say 'immigrants' as if those with legal standing are just the same as those without. They literally won't even acknowledge that there is a difference, much less a problem.

I gave what I thought was a pretty reasonable, rational list of things I would like to see happen with undocumented immigrants, and no one responded.  I personally think you are ascribing FAR too much blame for multiple problems on the undocumented when there is little direct evidence that they are solely or mostly responsible. 

Online edale

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16824 on: May 17, 2018, 07:29:45 PM »
^ Never said they were the sole causes of the housing shortage, traffic, transportation issues, or school performance/over crowding. But they certainly are part of the equation, and it's problematic that no is seemingly 'allowed' to even point that out. You'd be much more likely to hear or read a comment blaming these problems on transplants from the midwest than you would ascribing any sort of blame to undocumented immigrants. It's kind of maddening, actually. I have absolutely no problem with legal immigration from any country, and I certainly despise the hateful rhetoric that often arises in conversations about immigrants, but it shouldn't be taboo to say that having 1 million illegal immigrants in a single county has negative consequences.

Beyond the real issues I described, there is also something to be said about rapid, wholesale demographic shifts in neighborhoods, and how that affects communities. One of my good friends was born and raised in the San Fernando Valley. She's very liberal and accepting and kind, but she often talks about how her neighborhood, and really much of the Valley, has completely shifted demographics in ~20 years. What used to be a pretty racially mixed community is now almost entirely Hispanic. She said her mom feels like an outsider in the neighborhood she's been a resident of for 50+ years. Imagine going to your old neighborhood grocery store and being one of the few non-Spanish speakers. It's not bad, but it does feel weird. Just like when white flight occurred, or when gentrification happens and whites start moving into black and latino neighborhoods, sudden change is uncomfortable and awkward, and it doesn't always feel great. When you also know that many of these new neighbors aren't even in the country legally, I think it's kind of easy to start to feel like things are unfairly changing, and no one can even SAY anything about it, lest they be called a racist/fascist whatever.

I didn't see your list, as I don't always visit the non-development sections of the forum. Could you repost?

Online KJP

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16825 on: May 17, 2018, 08:36:42 PM »
"Many Americans are willing to die for their country. But pay taxes for it? No way." -- Me.

Offline jonoh81

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16826 on: May 17, 2018, 09:26:51 PM »
^ Never said they were the sole causes of the housing shortage, traffic, transportation issues, or school performance/over crowding. But they certainly are part of the equation, and it's problematic that no is seemingly 'allowed' to even point that out. You'd be much more likely to hear or read a comment blaming these problems on transplants from the midwest than you would ascribing any sort of blame to undocumented immigrants. It's kind of maddening, actually. I have absolutely no problem with legal immigration from any country, and I certainly despise the hateful rhetoric that often arises in conversations about immigrants, but it shouldn't be taboo to say that having 1 million illegal immigrants in a single county has negative consequences.

Beyond the real issues I described, there is also something to be said about rapid, wholesale demographic shifts in neighborhoods, and how that affects communities. One of my good friends was born and raised in the San Fernando Valley. She's very liberal and accepting and kind, but she often talks about how her neighborhood, and really much of the Valley, has completely shifted demographics in ~20 years. What used to be a pretty racially mixed community is now almost entirely Hispanic. She said her mom feels like an outsider in the neighborhood she's been a resident of for 50+ years. Imagine going to your old neighborhood grocery store and being one of the few non-Spanish speakers. It's not bad, but it does feel weird. Just like when white flight occurred, or when gentrification happens and whites start moving into black and latino neighborhoods, sudden change is uncomfortable and awkward, and it doesn't always feel great. When you also know that many of these new neighbors aren't even in the country legally, I think it's kind of easy to start to feel like things are unfairly changing, and no one can even SAY anything about it, lest they be called a racist/fascist whatever.

I didn't see your list, as I don't always visit the non-development sections of the forum. Could you repost?

You can "point it out" provided you have some sources to back it up.  This is a hyper-emotional/biased subject in a hyper-divided nation right now.  Claims like that should be backed up is all.  It's going to be taboo if you are saying those 1 million are bringing only negative consequences when plenty of studies have shown that immigrants, regardless of legal status, have lower crime, higher rates of entreprenuership, etc. than the native populations.  And most of them end up paying taxes with few to none of the benefits due to status.  There's endless misinformation about these people out there.
Furthermore, simply stating negative consequences is hardly a justification to only advocate for deportation.  We are more than capable of finding fair, humane and compassionate solutions that jive with our own history as an immigrant nation. 

To be honest, I don't worry about shifts in demographics, rapid or otherwise.  I'm not sure people that are truly as unbiased as they claim or believe themselves to be would really worry about that.  There's a difference between worrying about economic consequences of population changes vs. whether or not the people moving in are all Hispanic or black.  One is not racist... the other almost certainly is. 

And frankly, no one else has any clue as to who is documented and who isn't.  Someone speaking Spanish or being Hispanic doesn't mean undocumented. 

As for my proposals...

For those who are in the nation undocumented, in no particular order:
1. Mandatory English classes.  They don't have to speak it, but they should know it.  This just benefits them in terms of employment and making connections.
2. Mandatory civics classes.  Frankly, this is something I think schools in general should get back to teaching, because it seems like few natives even know what the hell our government is about, let alone our history.  Knowing this stuff is important in terms of being a part of the general community and participating in things like elections.
3. Fines could be implemented for either overstaying their visas or entering the country without any documentation.  This is not a violent crime and shouldn't be treated as such.  The fines could be tied to income or based on how long a person has been in the country undocumented. 
4. In lieu of or in addition to fines, they could be given the choice of military service or community service, perhaps for a period of say 5 years. 
5. Those who have already or are currently serving in the military should be fasttracked in a path to citizenship. 
6. Deport any with serious criminal records (felonies). 
7. They have to stay out of serious legal trouble for a period of 5 years after first documentation.
8. For those low-skilled, I'd like to see the US start training programs for needed skill sets.  This could be open to natives and documented immigrants as well.  These programs would cost money of course, so the immigrants could pay back the cost of these programs over time through their jobs.  For natives, it could be free or much lower cost.  These programs would alleviate problems with low-skilled labor pushing down wages in some industries.
9. Any welfare or other public assistance, if at all obtained while being undocumented, should be paid back and could be included as part of the fines talked about above.
10. Additionally, they should be barred from using public assistance until becoming citizens or until all fines have been repaid- or both.
11. DACA recipients should be given a clear path to citizenship.

These are the 11 main points for me.

As for the immigration process in general...
1. While high-skilled immigrants should still be favored, the process should be made vastly easier for all.  Most undocumented immigrants could never actually go through the current process legally.  Hence why they are undocumented in the first place.
2. As with undocumented immigrants, those willing to serve in the military should get fasttracked. 
3. Submit to comprehensive vetting/background checks, as is already the case.
4. Greatly improve the standards for hiring and training in ICE. 

As for that wall, I of course disagree with it.  If not for moral reasons, than because it will only be a financial boondoggle that has little to no chance of actually working.  And it's not really needed now anyway, given that border crossings are at 40+ year lows and have been declining for more than a decade.

« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 09:36:48 PM by jonoh81 »

Online KJP

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16827 on: May 17, 2018, 11:36:16 PM »
OK, let's cut the crap. Making your political opponents not just enemies but subhumans is LITERALLY what the Nazis did. More recently -- I saw it -- this is how the Balkans went to genocidal hell.

Americans, don't let these horrible, awful people win.
"Many Americans are willing to die for their country. But pay taxes for it? No way." -- Me.

Online freefourur

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16828 on: May 18, 2018, 07:28:07 AM »
It seems that RW media has moved on from collusion is OK to Trump was framed.  They are conditioning the cult for the next bit of news.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #16829 on: May 18, 2018, 08:36:05 AM »
Quote
"The President would testify tomorrow if it was about the truth. The truth is he had nothing to do with Russia ... Martha Stewart never would have gone to jail if she hadn't gone and testified," says Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani

RU-DY!  RU-DY!

Quote
Giuliani asked whether a president can obstruct justice: ďHe can.Ē

Trumpís legal team (Dowd) previously said he couldnít.

LOL