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Author Topic: The Trump Presidency  (Read 215439 times)

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Online KJP

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11820 on: December 04, 2017, 10:17:00 AM »
HOLY CRAP THESE NUTS ARE SCARY!!! Without a free press, there's no sharing or public debate of political actions, issues and ideas, especially the ones we don't like. And ultimately, there's nothing to stop a madman from capriciously choosing his/her enemies and destroying them.

@thehill
 4m4 minutes ago
NEW POLL: Majority of Trump backers say media is "enemy of American people" http://hill.cm/ux9yUqP
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Online freefourur

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11821 on: December 04, 2017, 10:20:16 AM »
^
The 14 Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm

Offline TBideon

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11822 on: December 04, 2017, 11:08:16 AM »
There have already been studies about Trump running for a third term and/or if he refuses to abdicate his seat if he loses the next election - unsurprisingly, his base completely supports, well, frankly any decision he makes. The crazies are more than outliers; they really are the party.

This country desperately needs a military coup.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11823 on: December 04, 2017, 11:13:55 AM »
^^^ Let's do a case study.

@Ram23 @eastvillagedon Entertain this hypothetical scenario:

2020, Cory Booker runs against Donald Trump. He wins NJ, FL, NY, PA, OH, CA, OR, MA, MD, VA, IL, MN, NC, NH, CT, WA, CO, DE and thereby wins the Presidency. He wins the popular vote by 5,000,000.

Donald Trump states that 5,000,000 illegal aliens voted in the election and states that he will not vacate his office until the investigation, conducted by the DoJ is concluded.

What say you?

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11824 on: December 04, 2017, 11:16:34 AM »
This country desperately needs a military coup.

Don't say that. I know you may have been kidding, but the implications on that for our republic, the moral imperative on which it was founded, and our children would be disastrous. Trump is a skidmark on our undies. We don't want to soil the pants as a whole.

Online DarkandStormy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11825 on: December 04, 2017, 11:34:07 AM »
This timeline is damning:

1/24: Flynn lies to FBI about contacting Russians
1/26: Sally Yates warns White House (McGahn specifically) Flynn lied and is compromised
1/27: Trump asks Comey for loyalty
1/30: Yates fired
2/13: Flynn "resigns" after public reports that he lied to Pence / Trump claims he "fired" Flynn because he knew Flynn lied to FBI and Pence
2/16: Trump asks Comey to let the Flynn thing go

Offline gottaplan

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11826 on: December 04, 2017, 12:13:49 PM »
There have already been studies about Trump running for a third term and/or if he refuses to abdicate his seat if he loses the next election - unsurprisingly, his base completely supports, well, frankly any decision he makes.

Where are these studies you speak of?  I think the paranoia of the left is equal to the crazies on the right in some instances when it comes to the Trump presidency.  I think many on the left also make a lot of assumptions about Trump's supporters.  His approval rating is still at 39%.  I don't see him winning any re-election with those sort of numbers and the midterm elections could drastically change things, provided the Dem's can get a clear, winning message.

Offline TBideon

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11827 on: December 04, 2017, 12:24:16 PM »
Not kidding about a military coup, which by the way is realistic if/when Trump orders an unwarranted nuclear attack on North Korea, Afghanistan... Chicago, CNN Studios, Pelosi's home in the Hamptons, etc. The ambiguous responses by the generals - "oh, we have measures in place to make sure that doesn't happen" - is purposely cryptic. Read between the lines. They would disregard orders and prevent him from launching, at least if they have any balls or honor... or common sense frankly. Sounds like the beginning of a coup to me. And what happens when his supporters in the military try to enforce his decision. NORAD is going to be one bloody mess.

As for Trump supporters wanting a third term, there was an Atlantic article that discussed it. Or perhaps it was their supporting his delaying elections indefinitely due to the fictitious "illegal votes" that obviously don't exist to any material effect. I'll find the link later.

Point is - the country is in a strange cold Civil War currently. These are shameful times.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 12:26:53 PM by TBideon »

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11828 on: December 04, 2017, 12:49:11 PM »
Trump lawyer John Dowd trying a new line: “The president cannot obstruct justice because he is the chief law enforcement officer...and has every right to express his view of any case.” via @axios https://t.co/5CbarHfYDX
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Offline Gramarye

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11829 on: December 04, 2017, 02:04:55 PM »
Not kidding about a military coup, which by the way is realistic if/when Trump orders an unwarranted nuclear attack on North Korea, Afghanistan... Chicago, CNN Studios, Pelosi's home in the Hamptons, etc. The ambiguous responses by the generals - "oh, we have measures in place to make sure that doesn't happen" - is purposely cryptic. Read between the lines. They would disregard orders and prevent him from launching, at least if they have any balls or honor... or common sense frankly. Sounds like the beginning of a coup to me. And what happens when his supporters in the military try to enforce his decision. NORAD is going to be one bloody mess.

I could see the military refusing the commander-in-chief's orders to launch a nuclear strike.  That is not a coup.  (Add this to the list of words that I'll gripe about being expanded beyond their intended definitions.)  It is particularly not a coup when there is no valid declaration of war against the target (or similar authorization for the use of military force, though to be honest, I think that for a nuclear strike, one ought to demand the full declaration of war and nothing short of it, or an instantaneous response to something like a Soviet launch), which could at least arguably be a good faith legal basis for disobeying an order.

Note that I have been generally disdainful of the so-called "25th Amendment solution," but if Trump gave an unprovoked first nuclear strike order without a Congressional declaration, and there was at least a colorable claim that he was not in a sufficiently sound state of mind to give such an order, I might start rethinking the appropriateness of such a remedy.  Right now the people clamoring for the invocation of that provision are mad about Tweets and investigations.  Tweets and investigations will never get me that exercised.  Nuclear war might.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11830 on: December 04, 2017, 02:19:51 PM »
^ Unless the decision to not launch upon Trump's orders were unanimous, or nearly so, it is likely a coup would be necessary to ensure the launch would not be made- with all the attendant possibility of bloodshed.  I would think that degree of unanimity is unlikely.  Also if some group of actors higher up in the military and government but not in control of the launch itself decided it was necessary to stop it they would have to attempt a coup in order to stop a launch.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11831 on: December 04, 2017, 02:44:19 PM »
Not kidding about a military coup, which by the way is realistic if/when Trump orders an unwarranted nuclear attack on North Korea, Afghanistan... Chicago, CNN Studios, Pelosi's home in the Hamptons, etc. The ambiguous responses by the generals - "oh, we have measures in place to make sure that doesn't happen" - is purposely cryptic. Read between the lines. They would disregard orders and prevent him from launching, at least if they have any balls or honor... or common sense frankly. Sounds like the beginning of a coup to me. And what happens when his supporters in the military try to enforce his decision. NORAD is going to be one bloody mess.

As for Trump supporters wanting a third term, there was an Atlantic article that discussed it. Or perhaps it was their supporting his delaying elections indefinitely due to the fictitious "illegal votes" that obviously don't exist to any material effect. I'll find the link later.

Point is - the country is in a strange cold Civil War currently. These are shameful times.

I'd argue that we have experienced 3-4 MORE polarizing eras than this in our country, not even including the Civil War. The issue now is that it's not organized, it's led by a bridge troll that vomits insults, so there's more of a clean-up.

Talk to your neighbor, most of us want the same thing. I despise this President, but I'd die resisting a military takeover of our republic.

As much as I love General Mattis, it's Madison > Mattis for me in the Battle of the James'

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11832 on: December 04, 2017, 04:37:59 PM »

I'd argue that we have experienced 3-4 MORE polarizing eras than this in our country, not even including the Civil War. The issue now is that it's not organized, it's led by a bridge troll that vomits insults, so there's more of a clean-up.

Talk to your neighbor, most of us want the same thing. I despise this President, but I'd die resisting a military takeover of our republic.


I wouldn't die for my country but I would pay more taxes to save it (funny how many conservatives take the opposite view, as if taxes are worse than death).

But the fact that my neighbor wants the same things in life, it keeps me from paying him $1,000 to sneak us in his speedboat across Lake Erie in the middle of the night. But a totalitarian government doesn't serve the will of the majority. It serves the will of itself as well as a small, deranged constituency. That fact keeps me in touch with my Canadian friends, and it keeps me shopping for Canadian real estate so that I know what's available where and for what price. ;)
"Many Americans are willing to die for their country. But pay taxes for it? No way." -- Me.

Online YABO713

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11833 on: December 04, 2017, 04:45:36 PM »

I'd argue that we have experienced 3-4 MORE polarizing eras than this in our country, not even including the Civil War. The issue now is that it's not organized, it's led by a bridge troll that vomits insults, so there's more of a clean-up.

Talk to your neighbor, most of us want the same thing. I despise this President, but I'd die resisting a military takeover of our republic.


I wouldn't die for my country but I would pay more taxes to save it (funny how many conservatives take the opposite view, as if taxes are worse than death).

But the fact that my neighbor wants the same things in life, it keeps me from paying him $1,000 to sneak us in his speedboat across Lake Erie in the middle of the night. But a totalitarian government doesn't serve the will of the majority. It serves the will of itself as well as a small, deranged constituency. That fact keeps me in touch with my Canadian friends, and it keeps me shopping for Canadian real estate so that I know what's available where and for what price. ;)

Donald Trump WANTS to be a totalitarian, he WANTS to be an autocrat. The beautiful thing is, our Constitution has yet to let him. For as big of a clusterf*** as this administration is, where is a single Authoritarian move that he's accomplished? He is without a win and has resorted to repealing those things that are within his power.

To me, that's beautiful. I disdain what the GOP has become, but even with them in power, our POTUS is unable to run roughshot over his legislative counterparts.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11834 on: December 04, 2017, 04:55:45 PM »
Trump needs two of the three branches, and I don't see a spineless Congress standing in his way. Maybe the courts won't either....

The Associated Press‏Verified account
@AP  39m39 minutes ago
BREAKING: Supreme Court allows full enforcement of Trump travel ban affecting residents of six mostly Muslim countries.
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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11835 on: December 04, 2017, 05:12:07 PM »
Trump needs two of the three branches, and I don't see a spineless Congress standing in his way. Maybe the courts won't either....

The Associated Press‏Verified account
@AP  39m39 minutes ago
BREAKING: Supreme Court allows full enforcement of Trump travel ban affecting residents of six mostly Muslim countries.

Yeah, and he's still not a dictator.

Just because SCOTUS exercised Judicial restraint does not mean they're rolling over for this a**clown. Our SCOTUS Justices are there to interpret law, not enforce their own moral compass of what policy should be.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11836 on: December 05, 2017, 09:08:53 AM »
1.) Christmas never left.
2.) Christmas is about littleness. Christians believe God entered our world as a poor, small, helpless infant--the most vulnerable state imaginable.
3.) Christmas is about humility. God lowered himself, "emptied himself," to enter into the human condition.
 
Some will never comprehend the beauty of a small life and that celebrating and protecting it without benefit to oneself is a very Christian thing to do, or at least it used to be...

https://t.co/UJ3fS2ABWp
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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11837 on: December 05, 2017, 09:38:53 AM »
This final statement is most important.  It shows what a person has done after careful thought and consideration.  In the GOP case that has led to being cool with a child molester in senate, a sexual assaulter in the presidency and a congressman who paid off his victim with taxpayer dollars.

apparantly that parallels any large business or institution, so there is nothing more all american than that.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11838 on: December 05, 2017, 09:57:28 AM »
You bring up the Constitution and SCOTUS, Yabo....SCOTUS is a bit tainted after the GOP sat on their hands for 11 months and refused to hold a vote on the nomination of Merrick Garland.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11839 on: December 05, 2017, 10:07:48 AM »
You bring up the Constitution and SCOTUS, Yabo....SCOTUS is a bit tainted after the GOP sat on their hands for 11 months and refused to hold a vote on the nomination of Merrick Garland.

Yeah, the confirmation hearing should've been had under Obama, no doubt. But our court has had a seat held vacant for considerably longer and even fluctuated in size at times. It makes the Court no less legitimate than it was while Scalia was alive.

Mind you, SCOTUS had no ability to control how their nomination was held up, and to their credit, they tabled a lot of issues with 8-0 votes so they could confront the issue as a full court. Their job is to interpret law, not impose morality.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11840 on: December 05, 2017, 10:13:52 AM »
^ I am not accusing you of doing this Yabo but I need to go on a screed of what I've been witnessing lately.  When it comes to actions that break norms or go against the spirit of the rules, people are willing to forgive it if there side does it.  I've witnessed on the right lately, that if something isn't blatantly illegal than all is well.  With that said McConnell tainted the court by packing it.  He violated norms and went agaist the spirit of the constitution.  Now, I'm sure some know it all will explain why I wrong but I am not.  I am holding the correct moral and ethical opinion here.  These norm violations become slippery slopes and we saw it prior to the election.  "Constitutionalist" Ted Cruz even stated that if HRC won the election they would keep the seat open indefinitely.  There is no excuse for this type of behavior. None.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11841 on: December 05, 2017, 10:19:20 AM »

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11842 on: December 05, 2017, 10:22:26 AM »
^ I am not accusing you of doing this Yabo but I need to go on a screed of what I've been witnessing lately.  When it comes to actions that break norms or go against the spirit of the rules, people are willing to forgive it if there side does it.  I've witnessed on the right lately, that if something isn't blatantly illegal than all is well.  With that said McConnell tainted the court by packing it.  He violated norms and went agaist the spirit of the constitution.  Now, I'm sure some know it all will explain why I wrong but I am not.  I am holding the correct moral and ethical opinion here.  These norm violations become slippery slopes and we saw it prior to the election.  "Constitutionalist" Ted Cruz even stated that if HRC won the election they would keep the seat open indefinitely.  There is no excuse for this type of behavior. None.

You're right. Completely agree. It is laughable to read Ted Cruz's appellate briefs as an attorney re: the importance of Originalist and Textualist interpretations of the Constitution, then make inane statements like that.

Again, I'd just like to point to the fact that 1) We have a deranged Cheeto holding Executive Power; 2) the GOP has lost their spine and moral compass; 3) All three branches are dominated by GOP or GOP-appointed persons; 4) Our Republic still stands. James Madison deserves tons of love, not even Trumpism could tear down our system of governance.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11843 on: December 05, 2017, 10:23:27 AM »
^ we are only 10 months into Trumpism though.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11844 on: December 05, 2017, 10:24:11 AM »
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/12/senate-investigators-confirm-they-will-soon-grill-donald-trump-jr-on-russia-ties/

Quote
Donald Trump Jr. will face questions from two congressional committees in coming weeks about his multiple meetings with Russian representatives and his efforts to obtain damaging information on Hillary Clinton from the Kremlin.

Trump, the president’s eldest son, will meet Wednesday with members of the House Intelligence Committee. He is also scheduled to appear this month before the Senate Intelligence Committee, Senator Richard Burr (R-N.C.), the committee’s chairman, told Mother Jones. Committee aides declined to specify the date of the Senate interview. Alan Futerfas, Trump Jr.’s lawyer, did not respond to questions.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/paul-manafort-russia-trump-mueller-bail-intelligence-link-latest-updates-a8092121.html

Here's Paul Manafort...just blatantly violating his court order.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11845 on: December 05, 2017, 11:22:42 AM »
https://twitter.com/SarahHuckabee/status/794255968448020480

Quote
@SarahHuckabee
When you're attacking FBI agents because you're under criminal investigation, you're losing

Sarah, you're never going to believe this...

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11846 on: December 05, 2017, 03:01:15 PM »
In history, this sort of paranoia has never ended well...

Trump White House weighing plans for private spies to counter "deep state" enemies
https://theintercept.com/2017/12/04/trump-white-house-weighing-plans-for-private-spies-to-counter-deep-state-enemies/
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Offline surfohio

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11847 on: December 05, 2017, 03:08:58 PM »
In history, this sort of paranoia has never ended well...

Trump White House weighing plans for private spies to counter "deep state" enemies
https://theintercept.com/2017/12/04/trump-white-house-weighing-plans-for-private-spies-to-counter-deep-state-enemies/

I am gaining a lot of respect for the Intercept.

Offline Ram23

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11848 on: December 05, 2017, 05:42:21 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/05/donald-trump-bank-records-handed-over-robert-mueller

Trump's personal banking information handed over to Robert Mueller

More Fake News:

White House: Mueller has not subpoenaed Trump’s bank records

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/363383-white-house-mueller-has-not-subpoenaed-trumps-bank-records

White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Tuesday disputed reports that special counsel Robert Mueller has subpoenaed President Trump’s bank records.

“We confirmed that the news reports [that] the special counsel had subpoenaed financial records related to the president are completely false,” Sanders said during the daily press briefing...

Citing an anonymous and unidentified official, Reuters reported earlier Tuesday that Mueller’s team had subpoenaed records from Deutsche Bank, where Trump is believed to have a line of credit and to have conducted tens of millions of dollars in transactions.

But Sanders said those reports are false and were another example of the news media getting something wrong in the frenzy to report on the investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election.




Every time I see a retraction like this one, Brian Ross's colossal screw up on Friday, etc. I lose a bit more respect for media establishments I once trusted and rarely questioned. Are they being lied to? Are they not doing their due diligence to verify tips? Are they completely fabricating stories?

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #11849 on: December 05, 2017, 05:44:21 PM »
who says it's fake?  The liars in the WH.  That's cute.

there was no retraction