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Author Topic: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development  (Read 2769 times)

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Online SleepyLeroy

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #150 on: June 29, 2017, 01:11:25 PM »
"Big Boy" city? Hmmm in a checkered pair of overalls that could be said for our mayor as well i would think. Quite a remarkable resemblance, especially in this pic.

Offline northsider

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #151 on: June 29, 2017, 03:15:27 PM »
I'd think that this will be even more influenced by the layouts of Chicago's Marianos stores, which Kroger now owns. The layout of Corryville was determined when they put the plans together like 2-3 years ago, so Kroger hadn't yet absorbed lessons from Marianos.  This is being designed in a post-Marianos ownership landscape.
Wishful thinking IMO

As for why they don't get that building at Main and Central, that building is historic and charming and lots of people (including me) would raise a hue and cry if it were demolished.
A 1,500 SF one-story corner building, built in 1941?  It was a mistake when it was built and is not worth saving IMO.

I work for Kroger, so I'm willing to bet I know more about our store planning process than you. *shrug* We are both hoping for the same thing.

Online thebillshark

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #152 on: July 17, 2017, 07:22:14 AM »
Article about architecture of Court and Walnut, before the HCB on July 24th:

http://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/downtown-cincinnati-kroger-project-makes-good-first-impression-with-interesting-and-subtle-design

The GBBN model shows a taller building at Central Parkway and Main. So maybe they're planning for that possibility? Tough to tell with the angle of the photo.

Offline JYP

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #153 on: July 17, 2017, 12:20:25 PM »
Article about architecture of Court and Walnut, before the HCB on July 24th:

http://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/downtown-cincinnati-kroger-project-makes-good-first-impression-with-interesting-and-subtle-design

The GBBN model shows a taller building at Central Parkway and Main. So maybe they're planning for that possibility? Tough to tell with the angle of the photo.

Bill, that looks to me like part of the Alms-Doepke building.
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Online jwulsin

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #154 on: July 17, 2017, 12:34:22 PM »
^yeah... if you look at that model from the other side, you can see that there isn't a tall building at that corner: https://spark.adobe.com/page/xBK0BLCy3A8TI/


Online jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #155 on: July 17, 2017, 12:47:59 PM »
I hope that if a development is ever slated for that corner that the small building can be moved to a vacant lot. 

Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #156 on: July 17, 2017, 01:24:47 PM »
I generally really like this building...but that Central Parkway loading bay...is really terrible. They did an awful job of making it at least feel integrated. That's a permanent hole in the urban fabric of Central Parkway.

I wish there could be push to make that able to hold a future building but get that spanning over angled semi parking bays isn't exactly cheap for a theoretical future building. But still, it's bad.

Online taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #157 on: July 17, 2017, 01:57:29 PM »
Someone could design a really interesting building for that small lot facing Main with cantilevers over the small building at Central Parkway & Main and the Kroger loading docks. Of course that type of development isn't going to happen until property values get sky high in Cincinnati.

Online jwulsin

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #158 on: July 17, 2017, 02:52:24 PM »
I generally really like this building...but that Central Parkway loading bay...is really terrible. They did an awful job of making it at least feel integrated. That's a permanent hole in the urban fabric of Central Parkway.

Agreed. The site has access on 3 sides (Court, Walnut, and Central Parkway) and an existing alleyway which sadly will be lost in this design, so I wish they would figure out a loading dock solution that is less disruptive to the street.

Offline Chas Wiederhold

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #159 on: July 17, 2017, 03:06:31 PM »
What is more likely to happen there (if anything) is what we are seeing all over in Portland and especially Seattle.

See linked image: https://goo.gl/maps/m2nh3gfPofR2

Actually... it'd probably be something shittier, like this (still in Seattle): https://goo.gl/maps/HyxsQGTmbmS2
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 03:08:41 PM by Chas Wiederhold »

Online taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #160 on: July 17, 2017, 03:46:14 PM »
Also, keep in mind that the city is not allowing new curb cuts on the streetcar tracks for safety reasons, so the loading docks either had to go on Central Parkway or Court Street.

Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #161 on: July 21, 2017, 09:30:05 AM »
So...the latest HCB packet is out and there's something very concerning. This building will fully encompass that small building at the corner of Central and Main and will have a garage entry off Main Street as well. Meaning they have 4 curb cuts for this one building and have removed an important corner fully from being built at Main and Central.

I hate to be dramatic but I really hope they deny this building and force them to revise how they're dealing with the eastern half of the property. Because that's trash. It's bad design and bad urbanism and is bad for the future of Downtown.

Online SleepyLeroy

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #162 on: July 21, 2017, 09:49:58 AM »
So...the latest HCB packet is out and there's something very concerning. This building will fully encompass that small building at the corner of Central and Main and will have a garage entry off Main Street as well. Meaning they have 4 curb cuts for this one building and have removed an important corner fully from being built at Main and Central.

I hate to be dramatic but I really hope they deny this building and force them to revise how they're dealing with the eastern half of the property. Because that's trash. It's bad design and bad urbanism and is bad for the future of Downtown.

What did you mean by 'fully encompass'? Is it now being demolished and replaced or do you mean surrounded? It has had that Main Street entrance for small deliveries since the beginning with that gap between the Hamilton County Building and the little corner bank filled with a low rise facilities type building. Hopefilly it is dresed up/detailed  and isnt just a roll up door with cinderblock facade but i don't necessarily see this vehicle entrance as a project killer. With all the multiple uses happening in one project the vehicles entrances need to happen somewhere and the semis need to have their separate docks somewhere. Depending on how it is detailed vehicle entrances can contribute to the overall look of a building and don't have to be bad by default. Look at Union Terminal, back in the day the front lower wings were just REALLY dramatic vehicle entrances. Cars and cities can work together and we should not see the ways they interact with architecture as simple a service entrance to be hidden. It is all in how you look at it i guess.

Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #163 on: July 21, 2017, 09:55:59 AM »
Encompassed meaning surrounded. From the renderings before it only looked the the gap between the small building and this new tower on Central Parkway would be filled in with a one story portion. Maybe I missed something where it was visible that there'd be a garage entry off of Main Street between the small corner building and county administration building, but it's shown here. And looks terrible. It's severely disappointing. Honestly to the point where I don't know how much I can get behind this project. Taking an entire corner off the market for curb cuts and one story garage/service entries is a terrible idea.

Edit: Looking just above that portion isn't even shown in their model. I'm not sure I agree that there isn't a better way to handle getting people into the garage that doesn't require a random ramped offshoot all the way to Main Street. That's sloppy planning. It's already bad enough that there will be semis backing in off of Central Parkway.

How is it that this Kroger requires all this service area but I've been to plenty other markets in less urban locations that are the same size and don't require this? Is Kroger just unwilling to change its supplying model?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 09:59:28 AM by jmicha »

Online taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #164 on: July 21, 2017, 09:57:37 AM »
Completely surrounds the 1-story building. The parking lot on Main becomes a parking garage entrance for the public as well as a delivery truck entrance for Kroger. I think it is a mistake to have any kind of vehicle entrance located right there, as it will interfere with the streetcar stop.

Offline Jimmy Skinner

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #165 on: July 21, 2017, 11:52:43 AM »
Here is the image in the packet

Online jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #166 on: July 21, 2017, 11:55:54 AM »
If the ramp is for resident parking it's not such a problem because residents will know the streetcar is there.  Visitors to the grocery store are more likely to hit it. 

Online jwulsin

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #167 on: July 21, 2017, 11:55:55 AM »
Here's the street level view of that corner:

Here's a link to the July 24 packet (125 mb): https://www.dropbox.com/s/neqeba63vo7q9gv/2017.07.24.pdf?dl=0

Online jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #168 on: July 21, 2017, 11:56:41 AM »
It's kind of amazing that this small building will be preserved. 

Online taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #169 on: July 21, 2017, 12:32:11 PM »
If the ramp is for resident parking it's not such a problem because residents will know the streetcar is there.  Visitors to the grocery store are more likely to hit it. 

That's true, but from the renderings, it looks like it's public parking, not just for residents.

I can see it now: a streetcar is stopped at that station. Just as it begins to accelerate, an idiot driver makes a left turn from the right lane of Main into that parking garage entrance, in front of the streetcar. The streetcar hits the car. This will happen all the time.

I can see why they want to add a second parking garage entrance. Having a single entrance only accessible from eastbound Central Parkway is not ideal. I'm not sure what a better location would be for a second entrance. Court Street isn't ideal, either.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 12:35:19 PM by taestell »

Offline urbanpioneer

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #170 on: July 21, 2017, 12:51:16 PM »
I'm all for historic preservation but I wonder if it could be better if the little building at Main and Central Pkwy. came down?  It appears to be a nice building (at least the exterior does) but IMO it's way too small and out of scale for such a wide street like Central Pkwy.  On the other hand, I don't know if that location, right on the Main Street streetcar tracks, would be better or not if higher rise development occurred there.  I suspect it would though.  And I'm not bothered by garage and dock access on Central Pkwy. -- it seems to me, considering the streetcar tracks on Main Street -- that garage and dock access would be safer on the pkwy. anyway.  Surely some kind of attractive streetscaping could be implemented to help offset the appearance of vehicle access.  Besides, the pkwy. doesn't exactly lend itself to small storefront-like development...

Online taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #171 on: July 21, 2017, 12:57:24 PM »
I wonder if this ramp could be designed in such a way that a building could be build over top of it later. Similar to this ramp leading to the residential parking garage at The Banks, where the 180 Walnut office building will eventually be built:


Online SleepyLeroy

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #172 on: July 21, 2017, 01:00:01 PM »
Here's the street level view of that corner:

Here's a link to the July 24 packet (125 mb): https://www.dropbox.com/s/neqeba63vo7q9gv/2017.07.24.pdf?dl=0

Oh, so it is just a roll up door & Cinder block. Doh. I fully agree that is kinds sucks now. It could have a cool rooftop deck on top of that low part at least i would think or SOMETHING. At least it makes for a good long term artworks spot on that slim building.

Offline JYP

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #173 on: July 21, 2017, 01:15:23 PM »
I've heard the parking ramp on Main was eliminated. They are only going to use that curb cut for truck deliveries.

Also, 2 of the parking garage floors above Kroger will be level opening up the possibility of conversion to something else in the future.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 01:16:02 PM by JYP »
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Offline ColDayMan

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #174 on: July 24, 2017, 11:11:05 PM »
Downtown Kroger's design gets city approval

The design for a mixed-use project that includes a downtown Kroger, plus two needed zoning variances, was unanimously approved by Cincinnati’s Historic Conservation Board on Monday, whose staff emphatically praised the project.

The mixed-use projects, which includes eight stories of 139 apartments and a 550-space parking garage in addition to a two-level, 45,000-square-foot Kroger, needed zoning variances because it will be three feet higher than allowed under the zoning code and its front façade lacked complete commercial continuity. It also needed a certificate of appropriateness for its design because part of the project is in the Court Street Historic District. It will be located at Central Parkway and Walnut Street.

More below:
https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/07/24/downtown-krogers-design-gets-city-approval.html
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Online thebillshark

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #175 on: July 29, 2017, 03:52:18 PM »
Here's the street level view of that corner:

Here's a link to the July 24 packet (125 mb): https://www.dropbox.com/s/neqeba63vo7q9gv/2017.07.24.pdf?dl=0

Really hope that corner gets a taller add-on some day. That is not a flattering side of the County Admin. Building to leave exposed for all time.

Online taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #176 on: July 29, 2017, 04:12:51 PM »
It would be a great place for an ArtWorks mural in the mean time...

Offline Toledophisher

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #177 on: August 10, 2017, 09:19:01 PM »
I noticed today that the parking lot is now closed and they have removed at least one billboard with a crane and another they're working on. No is currently parking on the last as of Monday of this week (less a few rebels). It looks like it could move quickly! 

Online taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #178 on: August 12, 2017, 09:22:49 PM »
Aerials from July 2:




Offline Chas Wiederhold

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Central Parkway and Walnut Development
« Reply #179 on: August 14, 2017, 03:31:12 PM »
I would just LOVE if this development ushered a redesign of Court Street that gave it the public space and the canopy that 8th has between Elm and Vine. And before you holler... there would still be parking.