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Author Topic: Police Use of Force  (Read 15328 times)

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Offline TBideon

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Re: Police Use of Force
« Reply #1620 on: April 15, 2018, 02:26:35 PM »
Starbucks calling the police is a separate issue than questioning if the police were in the wrong.

Unless the men were being inappropriate, then Starbucks screwed up and needs to clarify their policy, make it more uniform.

As for the arrest, however, the police handled an ugly situation that was not of their making as best they could. The men were asked to leave a private business and refused. Actions have consequences. If a store asked me to leave, I know I would regardless of their being unfair, and if I didn't, then I wouldn't be surprised with the ramifications.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 02:28:59 PM by TBideon »

Online Sir2geez

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Re: Police Use of Force
« Reply #1621 on: April 15, 2018, 02:40:54 PM »
Agree. The officers didn't do anything wrong. This is on Starbucks. Why did they call cops?

Online Cleburger

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Re: Police Use of Force
« Reply #1622 on: April 15, 2018, 04:47:22 PM »
How would you feel if you were waiting for a friend, doing what hundreds of people do everyday at Starbucks and you were asked to leave? Starbucks has become a community meeting place. Hundreds of people do what these guys did everyday at Starbucks across country. Why did the staff call the police?

BECAUSE THEY WERE BLACK.   There, I said it.

Online KJP

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Re: Police Use of Force
« Reply #1623 on: April 15, 2018, 04:48:24 PM »
STARBUCKS APOLOGIZES AFTER TWO BLACK MEN WERE ARRESTED FOR NOT ORDERING ANYTHING
http://www.newsweek.com/starbucks-apology-what-happened-arrests-black-men-incident-philadelphia-886313?amp=1
"Many Americans are willing to die for their country. But pay taxes for it? No way." -- Me.

Online Cleburger

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Re: Police Use of Force
« Reply #1624 on: April 15, 2018, 04:50:19 PM »
As for the arrest, however, the police handled an ugly situation that was not of their making as best they could. The men were asked to leave a private business and refused. Actions have consequences. If a store asked me to leave, I know I would regardless of their being unfair, and if I didn't, then I wouldn't be surprised with the ramifications.

At some point you have to get fed up with the system and start disobeying police officers.  After all, if you were white, this wouldn't have happened.  So despite the ramifications, maybe thought it was time to take a stand.  It wouldn't be the first time.


Offline E Rocc

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Re: Police Use of Force
« Reply #1625 on: April 16, 2018, 03:15:03 PM »
How would you feel if you were waiting for a friend, doing what hundreds of people do everyday at Starbucks and you were asked to leave? Starbucks has become a community meeting place. Hundreds of people do what these guys did everyday at Starbucks across country. Why did the staff call the police?

BECAUSE THEY WERE BLACK.   There, I said it.

Because they refused to leave when asked to.   They may have said "No, call the cops." Which is not all that uncommon.  At which point the barista/manager took them at their word.   Otherwise, they felt themselves unequipped to make them leave.   Bars have "bouncers" so we don't have to call the cops.   Nevertheless, we'll fake a call because people then tend to leave before they arrive.   Smartly, as all the cops will do is tell you to go.   As they did these guys.   If you continue to refuse, arrests happen.  Always.  Even if you are green with purple highlights.

There's several details missing in this story so the employees can't be automatically accused of "racism".  How long were they there without ordering?  How busy was the shop?  Mixed race patron group. Were they engaging paying customers in a manner that made the latter uncomfortable?   Did they get belligerent when told the code was for "customers only"?

People who work in such places tend to be liberals so I really tend to doubt any racism was involved, except for perhaps the "soft racism" of being afraid of them because they are black.

Our bartenders have asked people to leave who have refused, and called the cops.   A few have refused to the cops and got arrested.  Some have been white.  It didn't make the news.

Offline 327

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Re: Police Use of Force
« Reply #1626 on: April 16, 2018, 03:28:55 PM »
I've met people at starbucks before.  When I arrive first, I always order something.  It seems wrong not to.  That doesn't mean these two weren't singled out, it just means I've never gotten away with what they were trying to do.  I have, however, pulled it off at Burger King.

Online freefourur

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Re: Police Use of Force
« Reply #1627 on: April 16, 2018, 03:31:19 PM »
I've met people at starbucks before.  When I arrive first, I always order something.  It seems wrong not to.  That doesn't mean these two weren't singled out, it just means I've never gotten away with what they were trying to do.  I have, however, pulled it off at Burger King.

I usually wait for people before ordering.  I don't want to finish my coffee prior to them arriving.  I don't think this should ever escalate to a criminal matter.  This is why the Starbucks manager was dismissed.  Poor judgment.

Online Sir2geez

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Re: Police Use of Force
« Reply #1628 on: April 16, 2018, 03:31:29 PM »
Why did they call police? Like I said, they were doing what hundreds of people do everyday at Starbucks.

Offline taestell

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Re: Police Use of Force
« Reply #1629 on: April 16, 2018, 03:51:03 PM »
Because they refused to leave when asked to.   They may have said "No, call the cops." Which is not all that uncommon.  At which point the barista/manager took them at their word.   Otherwise, they felt themselves unequipped to make them leave.

We don't know the full story yet. If the workers did in fact ask them to leave and the people simply said "no" or "call the cops" then I don't have much sympathy for them getting arrested. But if they said "we're waiting on our friends" and the manager still told them to leave and/or called the cops, I think that's clearly inappropriate. Starbucks is largely responsible for popularizing this "third place" concept, and it's extremely common for people to get 1 coffee and hang out for the entire afternoon, or wait at a table until friends arrive to order a coffee. The fact that Starbucks has already apologized for the incident shows that they understand this and see the double-standard.

Offline E Rocc

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Re: Police Use of Force
« Reply #1630 on: April 16, 2018, 03:51:33 PM »
I've met people at starbucks before.  When I arrive first, I always order something.  It seems wrong not to.  That doesn't mean these two weren't singled out, it just means I've never gotten away with what they were trying to do.  I have, however, pulled it off at Burger King.

I usually wait for people before ordering.  I don't want to finish my coffee prior to them arriving.  I don't think this should ever escalate to a criminal matter.  This is why the Starbucks manager was dismissed.  Poor judgment.

It would not have escalated to a criminal matter had they not left when the police asked them too.   I can sort of understand saying it to the manager, though if you do that you've definitely bought some "ownership" of the situation.   But saying it to the cops only ends one way ever.

Offline E Rocc

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Re: Police Use of Force
« Reply #1631 on: April 16, 2018, 03:52:44 PM »
Because they refused to leave when asked to.   They may have said "No, call the cops." Which is not all that uncommon.  At which point the barista/manager took them at their word.   Otherwise, they felt themselves unequipped to make them leave.

We don't know the full story yet. If the workers did in fact ask them to leave and the people simply said "no" or "call the cops" then I don't have much sympathy for them getting arrested. But if they said "we're waiting on our friends" and the manager still told them to leave and/or called the cops, I think that's clearly inappropriate. Starbucks is largely responsible for popularizing this "third place" concept, and it's extremely common for people to get 1 coffee and hang out for the entire afternoon, or wait at a table until friends arrive to order a coffee. The fact that Starbucks has already apologized for the incident shows that they understand this and see the double-standard.

Their statement says customers can stay as long as they want.   That word implies a purchase, even minimal.   


Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: Police Use of Force
« Reply #1632 on: April 16, 2018, 03:52:49 PM »
There's several details missing in this story so the employees can't be automatically accused of "racism".  How long were they there without ordering?  How busy was the shop?  Mixed race patron group. Were they engaging paying customers in a manner that made the latter uncomfortable?   Did they get belligerent when told the code was for "customers only"?

People who work in such places tend to be liberals so I really tend to doubt any racism was involved, except for perhaps the "soft racism" of being afraid of them because they are black.

Our bartenders have asked people to leave who have refused, and called the cops.   A few have refused to the cops and got arrested.  Some have been white.  It didn't make the news.[/color]

Jesus Christ there's so many things wrong here...

1) A white woman was given the bathroom key who hadn't ordered anything.  These two men were not given the key.
2) Other people at the location have said they were there before these guys and didn't order anything...nothing happened to them.
3) They looked pretty ****ing calm, all things considered, in all the videos.  Yet here you are asking if they got belligerent (as if belligerent people aren't in Starbucks all across the world every day...with no arrests).
4) You work at a bar - of course kicking people out isn't going to make the news.  These guys were meeting a business associate (WHO SHOWED UP) in the middle of the day.

You are scratching and clawing for every excuse possible besides "racism still exists and it's terrible."

Offline eastvillagedon

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Re: Police Use of Force
« Reply #1633 on: April 16, 2018, 04:12:30 PM »
Starbucks has really become very restrictive about restroom use in recent years. In fact in New York--especially in midtown--they've even closed some of them to anyone, including customers. So many people (incl. lots of tourists) went in just to use the restroom. Even way before closing time the restrooms looked like complete pigstys. And of course most of them have installed locks with codes in order to gain entry (some haven't). The store in question here doesn't look very busy, so the order for the these two guys to leave was probably a little severe. I've seen many people in New York Starbucks locations just sitting around with no product, just playing with their phones, with no repercussions. I think the only time I've ever seen someone evicted from a Starbucks was a disheveled looking man who appeared to be homeless (can't remember his race), yet a few seats away was a very well-dressed woman chatting on her phone and leafing through some papers, with apparently no food or beverage, who was left alone! Yes, some degree of racism was probably involved here.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 04:27:51 PM by eastvillagedon »

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: Police Use of Force
« Reply #1634 on: May 03, 2018, 03:20:13 PM »
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/video-shows-miami-cop-kicking-man-in-head-10319164

VIDEO: @MiamiPD cop takes running start, kicks defenseless, handcuffed man directly in the head

Online surfohio

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Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Police Use of Force
« Reply #1636 on: May 17, 2018, 10:07:36 PM »
So it's OK to sic the dog on someone in this case? How is that different than a human cop attacking someone directly?


Online surfohio

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Re: Police Use of Force
« Reply #1638 on: May 18, 2018, 12:19:17 PM »
http://www.richmond.com/news/local/city-of-richmond/he-taught-teenagers-all-day-monday-that-evening-he-was/article_e0d911c3-1855-5895-b84f-98cb3c5105ea.html

Very bizarre case in Virginia.

Terrible story. The willingness to release the footage maybe suggest police believe the shooting was justified.