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Author Topic: Abortion  (Read 878 times)

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Offline Civvik

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #90 on: April 04, 2017, 07:38:13 AM »
Timely article. Dishonorable behavior from the pro-life lawmaker.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/04/health/texas-wrongful-birth-dortha-lesli/index.html

Offline KJP

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #91 on: April 04, 2017, 09:12:43 PM »
Another "pro-life" evil piece of garbage....

Lawmaker: Miscarrying women must carry dead fetuses to term
http://m.sfgate.com/politics/article/Lawmaker-Miscarrying-women-must-carry-dead-11041280.php
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Offline Gramarye

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #92 on: April 05, 2017, 02:21:11 PM »
Since many of the earlier posts were moved here from the Trump presidency thread, I'm putting this here as well even though this is about the Gorsuch nomination; it's much more focused on the pro-life issues than it is on Gorsuch personally (since the most distinguishing characteristic about his legal philosophy isn't his stance on Roe, it's his stance on Chevron).

This is an article from a conservative lawyer and is probably the apex of the school of thought that "Roe is basically the only Supreme Court case that matters until it is gone."  I don't actually share that belief, but for people interested in seeing how pro-life conservatives can talk to one another, to understand the terms of the world that the pro-life side lives in, people might find it informative:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/446425/roe-v-wade-supreme-court-shadow-abortion-decision-politicized-court

Offline surfohio

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #93 on: April 09, 2017, 01:10:58 PM »
Colorado's investment in IUDs and other fire-and-forget birthcontrol produced a "miracle"

The Colorado Family Planning Initiative spent comparatively small sums making IUDs and other long-term birth control methods (such as implants and injections) available to women, through a "no wrong door" approach that let women start their journey through a variety of agencies, and included after-school and other counseling services, and also provided birth control to women on maternity wards before they went home with their babies.

The results were amazing: teen births and abortions dropped by nearly 50%, and the birth-rate among teens who were already mothers fell by 58%; there were also dramatic reductions in high-risk births.

http://boingboing.net/2017/04/09/evidence-based-policy.html

Offline moonloop

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #94 on: April 10, 2017, 01:23:44 PM »
Your kidding yourself if the anti-choicers will stop at abortion. Attacks on birth-control, jail time, force marriage will all be on the table. Women must be punished. They are sinners and need to suffer consequences and repent. Abortions have alway existed and will still continue. The fanaticism against it is fairly recent.


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Offline surfohio

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #95 on: April 10, 2017, 01:55:33 PM »
Your kidding yourself if the anti-choicers will stop at abortion. Attacks on birth-control, jail time, force marriage will all be on the table. Women must be punished. They are sinners and need to suffer consequences and repent. Abortions have alway existed and will still continue. The fanaticism against it is fairly recent.

The last thing this issue needs is more divisive rhetoric. This forum is "smarter" and more civil than most of the internet...well aside from the Trump thread.

Isn't it possible to have a good discussion here without creating Isis-level demons out of people you disagree with?

Offline Gramarye

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #96 on: April 12, 2017, 08:44:38 AM »
Your kidding yourself if the anti-choicers will stop at abortion. Attacks on birth-control, jail time, force marriage will all be on the table. Women must be punished. They are sinners and need to suffer consequences and repent. Abortions have alway existed and will still continue. The fanaticism against it is fairly recent.

The last thing this issue needs is more divisive rhetoric. This forum is "smarter" and more civil than most of the internet...well aside from the Trump thread.

Isn't it possible to have a good discussion here without creating Isis-level demons out of people you disagree with?

This.  Not to mention I think I'm one of the most pro-life people on these message boards, certainly one of the most vocal consistent pro-life voices, and I want absolutely nothing of that sort (certainly nothing to do with forced marriage, or even jail time for those who have had or performed abortions at any point when it was legal).  With respect to non-abortive birth control, I can understand the perspective that the government should not fund it, but I also understand the perspective that we've actually reaped some social and economic benefits by funding it (such as the Colorado initiative you posted above) that would be lost if we made denying funding of birth control a matter of pure principle.

Offline TBideon

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #97 on: April 12, 2017, 09:50:35 AM »
Men talking (if not obsessing) about legislating women's bodies and reproductive rights really reminds of this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/14/saudi-arabia-launches-first-girls-council-men-stage/

Saudi Arabia launches its first Girls Council - with only men on stage

Chris Rock was right - it really is a women's issue, unique to women, that should be decided by women.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 12:14:53 PM by TBideon »

Offline Hts121

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #98 on: April 12, 2017, 10:21:25 AM »
Opposition to abortion, I get.  Opposition to birth control and sex ed from the very same people, I do not.  Seems like both of those PREVENT abortions.

Offline Gramarye

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #99 on: April 12, 2017, 03:14:20 PM »
Opposition to abortion, I get.  Opposition to birth control and sex ed from the very same people, I do not.  Seems like both of those PREVENT abortions.

With you all the way on opposition to sex ed.  (With the caveat that we might disagree on which subtopics are more important to cover when you've only generally got one semester to work with, but the big ones of pregnancy and STDs obviously make the cut.)

It depends on the particular form of opposition to birth control.  Are we talking about opposition to public funding for it, or required coverage for it in insurance policies?  Those oppositions I get, albeit from a free market perspective, not a social conservative perspective.  Are we talking about proposals to outlaw contraception outright, a la pre-Griswold Connecticut?  I find that much more difficult to justify as a matter of public policy.  (I can understand the justification for it as a matter of Biblical interpretation and canon law, of course, but I really do recognize, contra certain haters on this issue, that those aren't legally persuasive authority.)
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 03:14:50 PM by Gramarye »

Offline Hts121

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #100 on: April 12, 2017, 04:02:33 PM »
^I'm specifically contemplating opposition to direct or indirect public funding for it..... i.e. such as it being included in insurance plans which are subsidized or paid in full by the government.  I think that individual school districts should be able to make the choice, even be encouraged (perhaps financially), to pass out free condoms to students.... but I don't support a publicly funded supply of condoms or other birth control devices to adults.  I'd also point out that birth control medication for women can have benefits (such as regulating and minimizing menstrual cycle) which have nothing to do with birth control..... and in that case should absolutely be provided as part of their insurance plan no matter whether that plan is publicly funded or not.  Morning after pills are more controversial from a public funding standpoint, so I can understand opposition to that... although I don't know that I agree with it. 

Offline taestell

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #101 on: July 26, 2017, 04:23:30 PM »
Thanks to Google search data, we can get a glimpse into people's personal lives and find out things they would never admit, even anonymously, on a survey for example. The data shows that there is a rise in people searching for information about how to perform abortions at home. And not surprisingly: "These searches are concentrated in parts of the country where itís hard to get an abortion and they rose substantially when it became harder to get an abortion."

Offline down4cle

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #102 on: July 26, 2017, 04:58:13 PM »
But I thought illegal abortions would end them?   Dumb people create dumb solutions.

Offline TBideon

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #103 on: August 08, 2017, 10:00:02 AM »
http://www.npr.org/2017/08/05/541774311/democrats-contemplate-changes-to-abortion-stance

Democrats Contemplate Changes To Abortion Stance

Absolutely f'ing nope. If you're pro-life, you are simply not liberal. End of story

Offline Brutus_buckeye

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #104 on: August 08, 2017, 10:33:13 AM »
http://www.npr.org/2017/08/05/541774311/democrats-contemplate-changes-to-abortion-stance

Democrats Contemplate Changes To Abortion Stance

Absolutely f'ing nope. If you're pro-life, you are simply not liberal. End of story

wow way to be nuanced there. It is much more complicated of an issue than being pro life or pro baby killing. End of the day, Abortion is a horrible thing, and as Hillary often said, it should be minimized and policies need to be promoted to choose life. THat does not necessarily mean an end to abortion. There are many people who support social justice and liberal policies who are pro-life. Time to represent their interests

Offline TBideon

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #105 on: August 08, 2017, 10:40:06 AM »
Policies to promote life are fine; policies to make choice illegal are deal-breakers.

Pro baby killing? My friend, that would be more a conservative platform anyhow. based on their glee in cutting women's services and essential health benefits.

« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 10:41:47 AM by TBideon »

Offline DeanSheen

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #106 on: August 08, 2017, 01:00:34 PM »
The right has always been about the right to life until birth.

« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 01:02:21 PM by DeanSheen »

Offline down4cle

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #107 on: October 03, 2017, 03:58:55 PM »
Pro Life Rep Tim Murphy asked his mistress to have an abortion.  That's a double wammy for a member of the family values party.  It's typical of these politicians to say one thing to appease their donors but do the opposite in their own life.

Either he feels that the abortion is murder line is nonsense or he thinks that it's ok for him to commit murder.

Offline freefourur

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #108 on: December 04, 2017, 03:25:22 PM »
Here is a timely article about the unintended consequences of banning medical procedures. 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/04/health/kentucky-abortion-20-week-ban/index.html

Offline taestell

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #109 on: January 08, 2018, 05:29:07 PM »
Ohio's legislature has approved a bill to ban abortions for pregnant women with a fetal diagnosis of Down syndrome. Surely, the compassionate conservatives who passed this bill will also pass an increase in state funding for programs that help developmentally challenged children? Or is it the usual "pro-life until birth, then screw you"?