Author Topic: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus  (Read 59250 times)

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Online Clefan98

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1560 on: September 14, 2017, 08:34:28 AM »
It's still not clear, however, how binding the board's vote on the project later this month will be. City Council has the final say under state law and council members have declined to commit to following the board's decision.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/08/nucleus_tax_deal_goes_to_cleveland_school_board_tonight_city_council_wont_commit_to_backing_board.html

Offline mrnyc

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1561 on: September 14, 2017, 09:05:14 AM »
welp, jeff johnson just lost the urban ohio vote lol

Offline StapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1562 on: September 14, 2017, 09:05:41 AM »
From ORC Section 5709.40(B):

Except with the approval under division (D) of this section of the board of education of each city, local, or exempted village school district within which the improvements are located, not more than seventy-five per cent of an improvement thus declared to be a public purpose may be exempted from real property taxation for a period of not more than ten years.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/5709.40

Unless this project is using one of the other TIF types (which I don't think is so), school district approval is definitely required in this case. City Council approval is also required.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 09:09:39 AM by StrapHanger »

Online Clefan98

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1563 on: September 14, 2017, 09:12:28 AM »
^It most be something different.  I even heard Eric Gordon tell the audience at the Zone rec center meeting that even if the board voted it down, city council could still approve it. 

 Cleveland City Council has the ultimate vote on any tax-increment financing plan and actually approved a much leaner tax-increment financing arrangement for nuCLEus two years ago. But legislation related to the updated proposal, and other potential city funding, hasn't been introduced yet.

http://realestate.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2017/08/cleveland_school_board_delays.html
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 09:13:03 AM by Clefan98 »

Online Clefan98

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1564 on: September 14, 2017, 09:16:28 AM »
From the CMSD site:

Do both The Board and Cleveland City Council have to accept or reject the proposal, or will it go forward if only one body agrees?

Cleveland City Council has the final say and can approve the proposal without The Board’s consent.

http://www.clevelandmetroschools.org/nucleus

Offline StapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1565 on: September 14, 2017, 09:19:15 AM »
^^One of the exceptions to the requirement of school board consent for deep TIFs is making the school board completely whole with PILOT payments, which has been the case in nearly every TIF approved in Cleveland, and was no doubt the case in the earlier TIF for NuCLEUs council approved. Not the case with this deal.

I guess the one big wrinkle here is school governance. As a result of the "mayoral control," I guess it's possible that the school board doesn't have any real authority. I'm curious what's going on here.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 09:21:45 AM by StrapHanger »


Offline CbusTransit

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1567 on: September 14, 2017, 08:24:16 PM »
Hold on. In that video the reporter says they are voting tonight. Is that right? That seems really surprising.

Offline DevonianShale

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1568 on: September 14, 2017, 08:36:40 PM »
From the video, the meeting is scheduled to start at 6:30pm tonight. No word yet on the result of the vote!

Edit: Just noticed this was 6:30pm *last* night (Sept. 13). No info that I can find --- perhaps the school board did not in fact meet or vote last night.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 09:06:42 PM by DevonianShale »

Offline Cleveland

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1569 on: September 14, 2017, 08:51:44 PM »
Yes she says they voted last night? What happened?

Online osu4brutus03

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1570 on: September 14, 2017, 09:18:04 PM »
Omg I'm hoping for a YES. This project is what Cleveland needs
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 09:18:36 PM by osu4brutus03 »

Offline cfdwarrior

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1571 on: September 15, 2017, 09:13:38 AM »
I love the wording for the article on Cleveland.com today..."the city would forego $121 million in taxes"...no, they would be getting $56 million upfront.  If the project doesn't get built, then they get $360 thousand a year for a parking lot.  They would also NOT be getting hotel tax, income tax, sales tax and other taxes that would be generated by this project if it isn't built.  The all or none, cut off my nose to spite my face attitude about this makes no sense to me.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 10:51:12 AM by cfdwarrior »

Offline down4cle

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1572 on: September 15, 2017, 09:15:34 AM »
Also the $121MM is over a 30 year time frame.  The school district is likely better off with a guaranteed $56MM than a shot $121 over 30 years.

Offline RE Developer In Training

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1573 on: September 15, 2017, 09:33:08 AM »
Someone needs to write an editorial explaining this.. since the media in this town doesn't quite get it.  I guess all that matters is if the respective boards understand this.  Yes, you, Jeff Johnson.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 09:33:33 AM by RE Developer In Training »

Offline Mendo

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1574 on: September 15, 2017, 11:06:20 AM »
I love the wording for the article on Cleveland.com today..."the city would forego $121 million in taxes"...no, they would be getting $56 million upfront.  If the project doesn't get built, then they get $360 thousand a year for a parking lot.  They would also NOT be getting hotel tax, income tax, sales tax and other taxes that would be generated by this project if it isn't built.  The all or none, cut off my nose to spite me face attitude about this makes no sense to me.

I don't consider the cle.com article any more misleading than your assertion that the CMSD would get $56 million up front. They would get $18 million from Stark, the rest is taxpayer money. Moreover we've yet to see any comment from the state indicating they could or would put up the matching funds.

The most likely scenario is that the state draws from the money earmarked for future school construction to match Stark's contribution. Instead of getting the state funding some years down the road they get it now. Read: Not "in addition to", but "instead of". The end result is CMSD gets $18 mil plus whatever they would have gotten anyway, not $56 or whatever.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 12:32:46 PM by Mendo »

Offline tastybunns

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1575 on: September 15, 2017, 11:09:47 AM »
I love the wording for the article on Cleveland.com today..."the city would forego $121 million in taxes"...no, they would be getting $56 million upfront.  If the project doesn't get built, then they get $360 thousand a year for a parking lot.  They would also NOT be getting hotel tax, income tax, sales tax and other taxes that would be generated by this project if it isn't built.  The all or none, cut off my nose to spite my face attitude about this makes no sense to me.


Sounds like we need an Urban Ohio editor on Cleveland.com


Offline tastybunns

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1577 on: September 15, 2017, 05:19:03 PM »
Yet another shittily said article. Excuse my french, but they make it seem like nuCLEus will have other options after CMSD votes the tax abatement down. When it's voted down, that's it, unless city council forces it down their throats; which we all know they wont. Doesn't Cleveland know that you have to spend money to make money? Because they sure have avoided plenty of other nice deals from Stark and basically strayed away and dodged their own bullet pushing the issue on CMSD. Even though it's still the city's problem, they act like it's not. Am i not right here?

Anyways can we get an UrbanOhio editor for Cleveland.com? It seems we have the upper hand on development news...

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1578 on: September 15, 2017, 06:26:30 PM »
CMSD will vote the abatement down, but then build a school on arguably some of the more valuable lake-view property outside of downtown at 45/Detroit.  We have anything but visionary leadership in this city. 


Offline cadmen

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1579 on: September 16, 2017, 07:13:25 AM »
Agreed.

Offline CleveFan

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1580 on: September 17, 2017, 06:32:24 PM »
I know it's been said before by others on the forum, but it's beyond frustrating that the proposed Nucleus  abatement deal is portrayed by some in media and political circles as one in which the Cleveland Schools "give up 121  million dollars".  How can the city and school leaders not easily understand that there is no 121 million dollar pot?   It simply doesn't exist without the project - and the project doesn't happen without the deal. Where's our American spirit?  Isn't our history defined by how we've sacrificed to build great buildings, visionary projects and a city that rises up with new towers that symbolize its greatness?  If the powers that be in Cleveland don't embrace the possibilities and golden opportunities that come our way but, continue a philosophical argument about what " we're entitled to  and what we don't want  to give up"  then we'll wind up with a city that stops striving and growing as the 21st  century progresses.  I love the energy that one feels again in downtown - especially on a big night like a playoff game, for example - but just imagine the energy and vitality that a neighborhood anchored by a true 21st century skyscraper complex adds. I'm rooting for leadership in Cleveland to fight for that vision - not just for the downtown - but because I know that the deal actually creates money that students in the city will benefit from now. 

Offline lafont

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1581 on: September 17, 2017, 06:56:11 PM »
Agreed.
Isn't that group of colorful townhouses to the north of the proposed school site actually taking advantage of the lake ciew and consequent valuable acreage?

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1582 on: September 17, 2017, 08:57:54 PM »
Agreed.
Isn't that group of colorful townhouses to the north of the proposed school site actually taking advantage of the lake ciew and consequent valuable acreage?

Not above floor 3 of a high-rise condo/apt tower.   Plus there are open views to the NE. 

Online osu4brutus03

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1583 on: September 17, 2017, 09:44:31 PM »
I believe the school board will vote in favor of this development. The news is coming this week. Watch and See

Offline lafont

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1584 on: September 17, 2017, 10:12:51 PM »
Agreed.
Isn't that group of colorful townhouses to the north of the proposed school site actually taking advantage of the lake ciew and consequent valuable acreage?
I know it's been said before by others on the forum, but it's beyond frustrating that the proposed Nucleus  abatement deal is portrayed by some in media and political circles as one in which the Cleveland Schools "give up 121  million dollars".  How can the city and school leaders not easily understand that there is no 121 million dollar pot?   It simply doesn't exist without the project - and the project doesn't happen without the deal. Where's our American spirit?  Isn't our history defined by how we've sacrificed to build great buildings, visionary projects and a city that rises up with new towers that symbolize its greatness?  If the powers that be in Cleveland don't embrace the possibilities and golden opportunities that come our way but, continue a philosophical argument about what " we're entitled to  and what we don't want  to give up"  then we'll wind up with a city that stops striving and growing as the 21st  century progresses.  I love the energy that one feels again in downtown - especially on a big night like a playoff game, for example - but just imagine the energy and vitality that a neighborhood anchored by a true 21st century skyscraper complex adds. I'm rooting for leadership in Cleveland to fight for that vision - not just for the downtown - but because I know that the deal actually creates money that students in the city will benefit from now. 
I find now a really vibrant scenes when I walk around or drive through downtown on a Saturday night, as long as the weather is half decent.  Not uniformly, of course, but certainly in the vicinity of Flats East Bank, and then Along Euclid between Tower City and Playhouse Square, and hopefully the hundreds of new apartments on Euclid from East 14th eastward will extend thiscrowd.  Also along part of Prospect.  Around the major hotels too, I suppose, but there are smaller groupings there.  I'm talking respectable-looking people downtown - like in other cities!
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 09:55:16 AM by lafont »

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1585 on: September 18, 2017, 08:49:03 AM »
I believe the school board will vote in favor of this development. The news is coming this week. Watch and See

Do tell!
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Offline RE Developer In Training

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1586 on: September 22, 2017, 10:32:05 AM »
I believe the school board will vote in favor of this development. The news is coming this week. Watch and See

Any updates here?

Offline down4cle

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1587 on: October 06, 2017, 09:59:31 AM »
Here is an interesting article from today.  At first glance, it seems that Zack Reed may actually more open to the TIF deal than Jackson. 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/10/cleveland_mayoral_candidates_o.html

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1588 on: October 06, 2017, 10:34:38 AM »
"Expected groundbreaking - November 2037."

Offline tastybunns

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1589 on: October 06, 2017, 11:19:05 AM »
lets all be realistic here, Zach Reed is not going to be the mayor...