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Author Topic: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus  (Read 49828 times)

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Offline Larry1962

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1650 on: February 16, 2018, 04:04:44 AM »
Yes, but its the. First official update on the status of the project in six months. 
I feel that within. a few months there will be votes by the boe and City to green light the project!

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1651 on: February 16, 2018, 08:37:17 AM »

Offline Mendo

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1652 on: February 16, 2018, 08:49:14 AM »
Close to completing financing is what we've heard before. For all we know the last piece is still the TIF agreement with the county and Cleveland schools. Though I doubt that's the only gap.

Stark should have re-worked his plans for this site 2 years ago. Something cheaper to build with less parking and retail.

Offline freefourur

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1653 on: February 16, 2018, 08:54:08 AM »
Even if they secure the 100% TIF from Cleveland, there is still a gap. 

Offline PIB Guy

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1654 on: February 16, 2018, 09:37:07 AM »
Close to completing financing is what we've heard before. For all we know the last piece is still the TIF agreement with the county and Cleveland schools. Though I doubt that's the only gap.

Stark should have re-worked his plans for this site 2 years ago. Something cheaper to build with less parking and retail.
Makes sense, but the retail price point on apartments in Cleveland is somewhat "hohum".  The parking and retail component is what makes this project a winner for the developer, and the banks. 

Offline w28th

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1655 on: February 16, 2018, 09:53:40 AM »
Retail price points on apartments in Cleveland are the same as Columbus, as I've stated in a previous thread.

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1656 on: February 16, 2018, 10:01:36 AM »
Retail price points on apartments in Cleveland are the same as Columbus, as I've stated in a previous thread.

I was interested in reading about this and found this site, which apparently claims Cleveland's is lower than Columbus. 

https://www.apartmentlist.com/oh/cleveland

It's interesting to look at the national picture as well.

https://www.apartmentlist.com/rentonomics/national-rent-data/

(disclaimer--I am not in the field and not sure of this website vs others in their methodology)



Offline PIB Guy

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1657 on: February 16, 2018, 10:25:49 AM »
Retail price points on apartments in Cleveland are the same as Columbus, as I've stated in a previous thread.
I'm not comparing the two markets, just pointing out why parking and retail is such an important component to the financing plan for this project. 

Offline w28th

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1658 on: February 16, 2018, 10:50:40 AM »
Retail price points on apartments in Cleveland are the same as Columbus, as I've stated in a previous thread.

I was interested in reading about this and found this site, which apparently claims Cleveland's is lower than Columbus. 

https://www.apartmentlist.com/oh/cleveland

It's interesting to look at the national picture as well.

https://www.apartmentlist.com/rentonomics/national-rent-data/

(disclaimer--I am not in the field and not sure of this website vs others in their methodology)




That report looks to be a regional comparison, but point taken.
I've spoken with several developers in downtown Columbus, Short North, etc and they stated that the $2sf rental number for new construction is where they're at and that Cleveland compares very favorably for potential future developments for them. Certainly not scientific, but reveals the boots on the ground opinion of where things are in the development world.

Offline freethink

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1659 on: February 16, 2018, 12:02:50 PM »
Guys just to clarify on the comments from Joe Marinucci.  Go back and watch it he said,  nuCLEus is in the final stages of "planning" a development. Nothing about financing/funding.  This is hardly inside information or breaking news. But I will stay positive and still believe it will happen.

Offline tastybunns

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1660 on: February 16, 2018, 12:04:34 PM »
rumor has it that this is a rumor...

Offline freethink

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1661 on: March 02, 2018, 12:20:26 AM »
Hadn't seen this render from nuCLEus, it is from a listing for the Record Rendezvous location.

Offline plinth857

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1662 on: March 02, 2018, 08:24:09 AM »
This is E4th? Looks like its in the plaza of where NuCLEus would go... surely a nice rendering, I like the way they seal off the rest of E4th, nobody uses it, but people sure would for food and shopping of course, just across the street is more E4th delights. Surely a spot for before and after many Gateway district events... But hold up, how much retail do we really need? Looks like we have retail after retail, but isn't there already an oversaturation of retail in Cleveland? Am I the only one sorta noticing this or am I delusional? Well I guess the practicality of its location is alright. Right next to the arenas and if NuCLEus is actually built people would need a close place to get food and other retail items. I may have just answered my question... But I still think there's a little too much retail in the market right now...

In theory, if downtown residency continues to grow, the retail piece could work, as long as it's tailored to those who live downtown.  But the growth definitely seems to have slowed to more realistic levels, so you may be right about the oversaturation.

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1663 on: March 02, 2018, 09:32:21 AM »
NuCLEus retail element will not be a success without more equity downtown.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1664 on: March 02, 2018, 09:38:18 AM »
Hadn't seen this render from nuCLEus, it is from a listing for the Record Rendezvous location.

He needs to start building something here if he wants to see anything of nuCLEus built at all.
"Many Americans are willing to die for their country. But pay taxes for it? No way." -- Me.

Offline freethink

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1665 on: March 02, 2018, 10:32:14 AM »
^I was always surprised MRN never seemed to show interest in those buildings. Seems like a perfect extension to e4th St.

Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1666 on: March 02, 2018, 12:26:51 PM »
Hadn't seen this render from nuCLEus, it is from a listing for the Record Rendezvous location.

I can already imagine that building opening up to a rooftop patio over Harry Buffalo.

Offline MayDay

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1667 on: March 02, 2018, 02:23:10 PM »

Offline tj111

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1668 on: March 21, 2018, 02:37:09 PM »
Folks on reddit are claiming they have sources saying that the Nucleus project is officially a go and could break ground this year.   Obviously that's a pretty big claim with absolutely no proof. I know a lot of you guys are really close to the pulse on a lot of these things, has anyone heard anything similar to correlate that?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 03:01:30 PM by tj111 »

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1669 on: March 21, 2018, 02:41:30 PM »
^WOW, coincidence bomb.

I went to lunch today with a couple of pals from law school, one of which works at the firm handling some of the financing for the deal. He heard from people in his department that Stark thinks the downtown apartment market is over saturated and is considering scaling back the project in favor of condominiums - which would completely gut most of the existing financing.

DISCLAIMER: He has never worked directly on the project so he does NOT have first hand knowledge.

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1670 on: March 21, 2018, 03:13:26 PM »
^Interesting that is supposedly Stark's mindset.  I just glanced at the Worthington Yards website and note that only one apartment is left for rent and construction is still ongoing.  It appears to be a quality project (despite very limited views) so it seems if you have an in demand product you won't have a problem leasing.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1671 on: March 21, 2018, 03:14:36 PM »
Condos (including rent-to-own units) make a ton of sense -- and we really need them to provide a more stable downtown residential market. 300 condos x with an average sale price of $300,000 = $90 million. The parking, retail, offices and the subsidies should be enough to pull together a major project.
"Many Americans are willing to die for their country. But pay taxes for it? No way." -- Me.

Offline freefourur

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1672 on: March 21, 2018, 03:15:49 PM »
^ He could be thinking that for sale properties are so limited downtown that he might be able to pre-sell a good chunk of units and make the financing a bit easier.

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1673 on: March 21, 2018, 03:39:34 PM »
Condos (including rent-to-own units) make a ton of sense -- and we really need them to provide a more stable downtown residential market. 300 condos x with an average sale price of $300,000 = $90 million. The parking, retail, offices and the subsidies should be enough to pull together a major project.

In all seriousness, the parking cannot be overstated. Between residents, commuters, and Q-Goers, a parking garage there is a goldmine

Offline Mendo

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1674 on: March 21, 2018, 03:48:09 PM »
^ Don't think Stark doesn't know that already. A full third of the gross square footage of nuCLEus' site plan is devoted to parking. That is far beyond the needs of the office and residential components. It's all for the retail and Q. We'll see what, if anything, was scaled back - probably not the parking.

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1675 on: March 21, 2018, 03:49:27 PM »
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8864375,-87.6474503,3a,33.3y,50.87h,97.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sesWakw8SAMFT2bwdCMv6Kg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


This condominium building in Chicago's West Loop neighborhood would be the perfect size and scale for the project, if it actually were to be revised to condos.

Offline tastybunns

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1676 on: March 21, 2018, 04:34:48 PM »
Guess we gotta dig it out of this guy...


Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1677 on: March 21, 2018, 04:43:20 PM »
^Well, he deadlifts for days, so I don't know how far we'll get with threats of physical violence.

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1678 on: March 22, 2018, 08:22:00 AM »
^WOW, coincidence bomb.

I went to lunch today with a couple of pals from law school, one of which works at the firm handling some of the financing for the deal. He heard from people in his department that Stark thinks the downtown apartment market is over saturated and is considering scaling back the project in favor of condominiums - which would completely gut most of the existing financing.

DISCLAIMER: He has never worked directly on the project so he does NOT have first hand knowledge.

I know someone that works for Stark and the only thing I've gotten out of them is there are still plenty of meetings happening on the project.   So it's not dead at all.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Stark's nuCLEus
« Reply #1679 on: March 22, 2018, 08:43:57 AM »

I know someone that works for Stark and the only thing I've gotten out of them is there are still plenty of meetings happening on the project.   So it's not dead at all.

Get your friend to talk, man! Ask him about the condos rumor.
"Many Americans are willing to die for their country. But pay taxes for it? No way." -- Me.