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Author Topic: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News  (Read 2968 times)

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Offline The_Cincinnati_Kid

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #300 on: January 01, 2013, 04:59:26 AM »
Gaslight Market aims for April opening
Clifton grocery gets final loan approval
7:21 PM, Dec 31, 2012
   

Clifton could get its grocery store back by the end of April.

Steve Goessling, owner of the former Keller’s IGA on Ludlow, said Monday that he has received final approval on the construction loan for the $4.1 million project, and closing is tentatively scheduled for Jan. 9.

“Now the real work will begin,” he said.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20121231/BIZ/312310104/Gaslight-Market-aims-April-opening

Offline subocincy

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #301 on: January 01, 2013, 07:45:21 AM »
^  Promises, promises, promises!  (Deja vu.)  At this late date, the only way that such press releases can be taken seriously is the moment when the "Gaslight Market" opens its doors and shoppers actually enter.   
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 07:46:40 AM by subocincy »

Offline ryanlammi

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #302 on: January 31, 2013, 01:59:57 PM »
Clifton could get its grocery store back by the end of April.

Steve Goessling, owner of the former Keller’s IGA on Ludlow, said Monday that he has received final approval on the construction loan for the $4.1 million project, and closing is tentatively scheduled for Jan. 9.

“Now the real work will begin,” he said.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20121231/BIZ/312310104/Gaslight-Market-aims-April-opening

Clifton Gaslight Market gets final go ahead

Quote
he encountered several delays in lining up funding for the $4.1 million renovation. The $1.89 million construction loan from Fifth Third, expected to be finalized three weeks ago, was the final piece of the puzzle.

“Hallelujah,” Goessling said after Thursday’s closing.

He said he needs to consult with general contractor Reece-Campbell Inc. before announcing an opening date, but he hopes work can start next week.

Deja vu al over again
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 02:01:17 PM by ryanlammi »

Offline Blue Line

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #303 on: February 02, 2013, 08:47:59 AM »
I moved from a building near Clifton and Ludlow, eights months after Keller's IGA closed.
Then I moved from Bishop Street one year later.
Now I live in Clifton Heights, two years after the grocery store closed.

At some point, you just lost interest, and the empty promises mean nothing to you. As crappy as most people say it is, a grocery store is a grocery store, and I like being able to walk to the University Plaza Kroger. Between that Kroger and Findlay Market, I can get anything I *need*. Unlike an unfortunate conversation I had with someone, a few months back, who was angry because the OTR Kroger didn't carry *refrigerated* pickles. First world problems.

Offline natininja

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #304 on: February 02, 2013, 12:42:45 PM »
I moved from a building near Clifton and Ludlow, eights months after Keller's IGA closed.
Then I moved from Bishop Street one year later.
Now I live in Clifton Heights, two years after the grocery store closed.

At some point, you just lost interest, and the empty promises mean nothing to you.

Makes perfect sense to me! This has been an unmitigated disaster for the Clifton neighborhood.

Offline The_Cincinnati_Kid

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #305 on: February 08, 2013, 08:04:01 AM »

Feb 8, 2013, 7:38am EST
Renovation of former Keller’s IGA to start next week
Staff Business Courier


Construction on the former Keller’s IGA will finally begin next week, wcpo.com reported.

The new store, Goessling’s Market-Clifton, will start with construction of a new roof and interior as early as Monday. The store’s reopening was originally scheduled for January 2013, but was delayed because of issues with getting an approved loan from the city while they worked with the Grow America Fund to get the money.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2013/02/renovation-of-former-kellers-iga-to.html

Offline mcadrenaline

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #306 on: February 08, 2013, 08:33:45 AM »
At this point though, I'd be concerned that his customers have found other places to shop, albeit less convenient places maybe. One of the major selling points to reopen this grocery is that fact that there are so many elderly/carless/etc in this area. All those people have found new places to shop over the past 2+ years and have made it work. What is Goessling going to do to win these customers back? Surely he cannot compete on price with the Kroger/ALDI/Walmart etc where former patrons of this store are now going. Perhaps people have seen that getting on a bus or carpooling down the street to Kroger is not as big a deal as they once thought.

Furthermore, I have to be skeptical of the business savvy of the Goessling group. They come in knowing how difficult the lending environment is right now yet still continue to make all these specific promises and sharing their timeline with the public, both huge mistakes. Clearly they have never heard of under-promising and over-delivering. How does this kind of impulsive decision-making translate into the day-to-day operation of the business? That remains to be seen.

And this guy has the nerve to talk about how he is interested in opening a location DT or in OTR.....ooooookay, buddy.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 09:09:02 AM by mcadrenaline »

Offline el double u

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #307 on: February 08, 2013, 08:37:35 AM »
I currently shop in the Corryville Kroger or at a Kroger close to where I work in Montgomery.  Once this new store opens, I don't plan on going anywhere else.  From where I live, I have to drive to Kroger anyways and would be more than willing to add three minutes to the trip to go to a nice grocery store.  Kroghetto just doesn't cut it.

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #308 on: February 08, 2013, 10:41:17 AM »
Plus, there's new people moving in all the time because of UC.

Offline Quimbob

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #309 on: August 29, 2013, 08:42:55 AM »
ok, some guy I don't know just posted on the Nextdoor.com site that Trader Joe's is moving into the Ludlow Ave IGA.
He posted a 2AM with no details.
Probably just a drunken rumor...

Offline Jimmy_James

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #310 on: August 29, 2013, 09:10:01 AM »
^Awesome, if true.

Offline old edale

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #311 on: August 29, 2013, 11:28:30 AM »
Yeah, I think that's premature to announce, if there is any truth to it at all.

Offline seicer

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #312 on: August 29, 2013, 12:21:08 PM »
Must be the same folks who want a Trader Joe's in the former Save-a-Lot in Northside.

Offline OCtoCincy

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #313 on: August 30, 2013, 09:02:21 AM »
Would be amazing but very unlikely. Trader joes love suburban style shopping malls. Only a very few aren't in large parking lots, etc. if they are semi urban, they are in very wealthy areas.  Clifton is wealthy, but not very large. Trader Joes keeps its costs low by having a massive volume of sales. They would need to be packed all the time.

I'll cross my fingers, but I won't hold my breath.

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #314 on: August 30, 2013, 10:37:49 AM »
'Nati got luck with the Trader Joe's "only" as far as Kenwood. In Seabus we gotta go all the way to Dublin or Easton.

Offline old edale

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #315 on: August 30, 2013, 11:11:56 AM »
Would be amazing but very unlikely. Trader joes love suburban style shopping malls. Only a very few aren't in large parking lots, etc. if they are semi urban, they are in very wealthy areas.  Clifton is wealthy, but not very large. Trader Joes keeps its costs low by having a massive volume of sales. They would need to be packed all the time.

I'll cross my fingers, but I won't hold my breath.

I agree with most of what you say, but I know of quite a few urban Trader Joes.  The store in DC's West End is built into a residential building, and I don't even know if there is parking provided (there probably is, I just always walked there when I lived near by). There are also a few urban TJs in the LA area, including one that anchors a relatively new highrise in Hollywood. Another in Silverlake is built to the street, but does have a small parking lot in the rear.

Offline eastvillagedon

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #316 on: August 30, 2013, 11:22:52 AM »
^there are now 3 Trader Joe's in Manhattan, and 1 in Brooklyn. Although in NYC it's obviously not a problem to attract enough people for the "massive volume of sales" mentioned, for a number of years there was only one location, on 14th St, and it attracted people from all over the city; so I'm guessing wherever in Cincinnati they put one, it will have little trouble attracting enough customers to make it profitable, such is the magnet of the Trader Joe's brand with its quality and low prices.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 11:33:19 AM by eastvillagedon »

Offline neilworms

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #317 on: August 30, 2013, 11:51:25 AM »
I believe there is only like one trader joes in the whole Cincy region and its near Kenwood right now, where the money is.

In Chicago there are 4 urban stores and all but one (South Loop) are in the North Side where the money is, and even the south loop is pretty well off.   I think Cincy will have to wait a few years on the gentrification curve / developers getting on board with urban revitalization to get one.

Offline OCtoCincy

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #318 on: August 30, 2013, 11:52:46 AM »
I would never for a moment compare Clifton and Cincinnati to Brooklyn, Manhattan, Hollywood or silverlake.

Silverlake, the least wealthy on that list, is made up of 4-6 census tracts that range from 10-20k people per square mile, let alone the fact that it is 1 mile from several census tracts tha are between 30-40k people per square mile.

Clifton is 4k people per square mile, northside is 5-6k, Avondale is 5-6k but it doesn't have the purchasing power or Clifton, and then there's CUF, which has two that are above 10k.

If there is an urban feelin Trader Joes in St Louis, Columbus, Indy, Pittsburgh or Cleveland I could see us getting one.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 12:22:13 PM by OCtoCincy »

Offline OCtoCincy

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #319 on: August 30, 2013, 12:08:52 PM »
Alright. Looked into those cities.

Only Pittsburgh comes close, but it's still a hard comparison to the Ludlow business district...

The remainder are all  in subruban style strip shopping centers.

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #320 on: August 30, 2013, 12:18:10 PM »
I hate to be pessimistic, but I don't really think that cities in "flyover country" with no established rail transit and most of their wealthy residents concentrated in sprawl are going to attract an urban TJ's or Whole Foods in the near term.

Offline ajknee

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #321 on: August 30, 2013, 02:03:04 PM »
Have you seen Milwaukee's Whole Foods?  It's gorgeous, urban, and surrounded by demographics very similar to Clifton.

Offline neilworms

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #322 on: August 30, 2013, 04:28:14 PM »
At the same time it's close enough to Chicago that the concept of an urban grocery isn't so foreign

Offline Ram23

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #323 on: August 30, 2013, 04:55:42 PM »
^there are now 3 Trader Joe's in Manhattan, and 1 in Brooklyn. Although in NYC it's obviously not a problem to attract enough people for the "massive volume of sales" mentioned, for a number of years there was only one location, on 14th St, and it attracted people from all over the city; so I'm guessing wherever in Cincinnati they put one, it will have little trouble attracting enough customers to make it profitable, such is the magnet of the Trader Joe's brand with its quality and low prices.

There's one in Forest Park in Queens too, that was always packed. It's probably a little more comparable to the site in Clifton, as it had ample parking.

Offline OCtoCincy

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #324 on: August 31, 2013, 09:40:02 AM »
Forest Park in Queens has 83,000 people living in 2.4 square miles. Not really an equal comparison.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 09:51:16 AM by OCtoCincy »

Offline OCtoCincy

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #325 on: August 31, 2013, 09:50:33 AM »
Have you seen Milwaukee's Whole Foods?  It's gorgeous, urban, and surrounded by demographics very similar to Clifton.

This is the closest comparison so far. Murray Hill is like a flatter, denser CUF (primarily students, dense housing, etc). It's also surrounded by institutions whose faculty and staff (hospital and University of Wisconsin) have disposable income and even though they don't live there could swing by on their way home. It's also pretty close to downtown. If CUF was even denser/larger I would have loved to see a grocery store in USquare.

Offline Krugkiw

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #326 on: September 02, 2013, 07:36:04 PM »
Found this nugget about Trader Joe's locations:

Quote
"Within a 15–minute driving radius of a potential site,” one expert told a forlorn Savannah journalist, “there must be at least 36,000 people with four–year college degrees who have a median age of 44 and earn a combined household income of $64K a year.

Via this article: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-27/why-walmart-will-never-pay-like-costco.html

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #327 on: September 03, 2013, 11:36:42 AM »
That's the other problem with college students: Way too much of their diet consists ramen, pizza rolls, delivery pizzas and cereal to do TJ's a lot of good. Their bodies don't demand the higher-quality foods that a 25+ body does.

Offline BlackBengal

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #328 on: September 03, 2013, 11:53:08 AM »
That's the other problem with college students: Way too much of their diet consists ramen, pizza rolls, delivery pizzas and cereal to do TJ's a lot of good. Their bodies don't demand the higher-quality foods that a 25+ body does.

You really think that Trader Joes has high quality food?  Trader Joes specializes in microwave meals, canned foods and prepacked meats. They have a very small produce section with poor quality fruit and veggies.  Relative to other grocery stores TJ's is packed with cheap "non-fresh" foods like ramen, pizza rolls, cereal, and similar products.   I think it is a perfect fit for college students. 

Offline natininja

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Re: Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News
« Reply #329 on: September 03, 2013, 01:22:01 PM »
That's the other problem with college students: Way too much of their diet consists ramen, pizza rolls, delivery pizzas and cereal to do TJ's a lot of good. Their bodies don't demand the higher-quality foods that a 25+ body does.

You really think that Trader Joes has high quality food?  Trader Joes specializes in microwave meals, canned foods and prepacked meats. They have a very small produce section with poor quality fruit and veggies.  Relative to other grocery stores TJ's is packed with cheap "non-fresh" foods like ramen, pizza rolls, cereal, and similar products.   I think it is a perfect fit for college students. 

So it's not just the TJ's I went to, then. I was expecting a lower-tier Whole Foods, and got a convenience-grocery store hybrid that didn't seem to live up to the hype at all.