Author Topic: Cincinnati's Homeless Population  (Read 8179 times)

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Offline Cincy513

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2018, 08:20:15 AM »
They 100% need to be moved out of 3rd street.  In no way should they be allowed to live in such a prominent location. 

Offline savadams13

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2018, 09:05:02 AM »
I work over by Plum and Third and its a real big issue at the moment. We have all been notified of two sex offenders now living in the tunnel. I have numerous female co-workers freaked out about walking to there cars by themselves now or even staying at work late. The tunnel situation has also gotten out of hand, there is couches, mattresses, a propane grill, lawn chairs. On top of all the tents they have everywhere in there. The stench of urine in the surrounding area is so bad it makes you want to gag. They defecate in between vehicles which is a whole other fun issue to walk to your vehicle in the evening. I know the police/fire department have been called almost twice a week for the past couple months because of overdosing in the tunnel as well.
Id like to see Josh Spring actually do something worth while and move these folks or convince them to move into shelters and programs. He is always there to create headaches for everyone else, but i have yet to see him solve existing problems...

Offline troeros

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2018, 09:36:54 AM »
Are we SF of the mid west in terms of homeless population versus our current city size? For instance I know Chicago probably have more homeless but they are also a larger city. For the size of Cincy and the amount of homeless Iíve seen and the amount of camps it makes you think we have probably the higher homeless ratio for a city of our size.

Again, itís weird. Cost of living in cincy is one of the lowest in the us, our unemployment rate has been pretty low as well...Again, the heroin drug trade has been prevelant here but itís affected many other cities as well. Iím just curious why cincy is becoming a homeless hub, the sf of the Midwest.

Offline Robuu

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2018, 09:43:17 AM »
It's crazy how many abandoned housing units there are in the city, but people need to set up camp in the streets.

Offline Cincy513

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2018, 09:53:03 AM »
The problem is that they allow them to setup these camps.  SF finally got smart and has started cracking down on them.  They have started forcing their homeless to go to shelters where they can get help, and if they don't agree then they're forced out of their "home"

Offline troeros

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2018, 09:53:11 AM »
Honestly, and this might trigger some people (and thinking about the state of otr even 10 years ago),  but Iíd argue that south of liberty is now safer than portions of the cbd at night...and that blows my mind.

Offline savadams13

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2018, 10:01:04 AM »
Honestly, and this might trigger some people (and thinking about the state of otr even 10 years ago),  but Iíd argue that south of liberty is now safer than portions of the cbd at night...and that blows my mind.

No I would say this is an accurate observation right now. Couple of times had to do a second look over my shoulder because there are aggressive homeless that work in groups now at night.

Offline Cincy513

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2018, 10:05:51 AM »
Honestly, and this might trigger some people (and thinking about the state of otr even 10 years ago),  but Iíd argue that south of liberty is now safer than portions of the cbd at night...and that blows my mind.
It makes sense.  That area has lots of foot traffic and more people on the street make the area safer.  OTR south of Liberty isn't a very big area whereas the CBD is.  There are parts of the CBD that are just as if not more safe the OTR south of Liberty but there are other areas that are completely dead.  Just a couple weeks ago I was walking home down Vine St and walked past someone clearly od'ing on the sidewalk between Court and 9th.  Their drug addict friend was on a cell probably trying to call 911 to get her resuscitated.  That stretch of Vine from Court to 8th is completely dead with barely any street lights.  And there are plenty of other dead parts of the CBD as well where homeless/addicts hangout and live. 

Offline troeros

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2018, 10:21:45 AM »
Honestly, and this might trigger some people (and thinking about the state of otr even 10 years ago),  but Iíd argue that south of liberty is now safer than portions of the cbd at night...and that blows my mind.
It makes sense.  That area has lots of foot traffic and more people on the street make the area safer.  OTR south of Liberty isn't a very big area whereas the CBD is.  There are parts of the CBD that are just as if not more safe the OTR south of Liberty but there are other areas that are completely dead.  Just a couple weeks ago I was walking home down Vine St and walked past someone clearly od'ing on the sidewalk between Court and 9th.  Their drug addict friend was on a cell probably trying to call 911 to get her resuscitated.  That stretch of Vine from Court to 8th is completely dead with barely any street lights.  And there are plenty of other dead parts of the CBD as well where homeless/addicts hangout and live.

Iím glad 3cdc will soon begin focusing less on otr and begin focusing more on the cbd. When you walk around otr (especially the revitalized areas) you feel like you are in a different city all together. There are shops on every corner, bars, restaurants, crowds of pedestrians. There is life on the streets.

Parts of CBD are a crumbling mess, and itís sort of shocking that it has gotten to this point. Dead streets, vacant store fronts, literally row of homeless camps. What the hell happened? Itís just extreme night and day between these 2 areas of the city. Extremely stark contrast.

Aside from 3cdc, no one else is really investing in the cbd. I donít get why. This has really hurt the cbd imo. Iím not sure why otr will have a flock of developers, but the cbd is the lonely step child that no one wants to talk to. Even the street car line has done more for revitalizing otr than it has for the cbd.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 10:25:41 AM by troeros »

Offline IAGuy39

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2018, 10:40:18 AM »
I think a few things are looking up in the CBD:

1.) The new Kroger Tower

2.) The new Kimpton Hotel catty corner from Fountain Square (5th and Walnut)

3.) 4th and Race if that ever gets going.

I know it won't be enough but those three things, if hopefully #2 and #3 get moving quickly, will really help out those specific areas.

The 5th and Walnut area is going to really spruce up the immediate area and help out with hotel attendants outside waiting for customers to arrive. Now it's kind of a grimey area

The other one is 4th and Race, adding a bunch of new residents and filling in that massive hole is giong to do a lot.

After that the big one they need to figure out is the Macy's site.

Offline jim uber

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2018, 10:49:08 AM »
Aside from 3cdc, no one else is really investing in the cbd. I donít get why.
come on. 

Offline DEPACincy

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2018, 11:00:29 AM »
Aside from 3cdc, no one else is really investing in the cbd. I donít get why.
come on.

Yea, it's definitely not true. There are other people investing in the CBD right now. There was an article in the Business Courier today about buildings being redeveloped along Fourth Street. there are several projects starting to happen on Seventh as well. But it has definitely come slower than in OTR. One reason I think this is the case is because of the streets. OTR has narrow streets and trees. All the main streets in the CBD have been blown up into highways. No one wants to live on a highway, even if they are in a high rise. Road diets throughout the CBD, adding bike lanes and tree lawns, would go a long way toward spurring more investment.

Offline oakiehigh

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2018, 11:08:32 AM »
I can't help to suspect their is an outside organization supplying these people with tents and guiding them where to place them for political reasons or to advance an agenda.    You very rarely seen these before and now they are cropping up in the most noticeable places.   There are now two tents on Findlay St under I-75.   Conveniently, this is the exit a lot of suburbanites from Southbound 75 take to go towards Findlay Market

Offline Cincy513

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2018, 11:13:06 AM »
Aside from 3cdc, no one else is really investing in the cbd. I donít get why.
come on.

Yea, it's definitely not true. There are other people investing in the CBD right now. There was an article in the Business Courier today about buildings being redeveloped along Fourth Street. there are several projects starting to happen on Seventh as well. But it has definitely come slower than in OTR. One reason I think this is the case is because of the streets. OTR has narrow streets and trees. All the main streets in the CBD have been blown up into highways. No one wants to live on a highway, even if they are in a high rise. Road diets throughout the CBD, adding bike lanes and tree lawns, would go a long way toward spurring more investment.
The streets in OTR are smaller then CBD because it's not downtown.  Downtowns streets are very standard for downtowns throughout the country.  I walk to and from work in downtown everyday and only 2nd and 3rd along with Central are comparable to highways.  Everything inbetween isn't anything close to a highway, cars can barely get over 30 mph before then inevitably hit a red light. 

Offline IAGuy39

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2018, 11:29:49 AM »
Yeah and actually downtown Cincinnati streets are much tighter than most other Midwest cities.

Indianapolis, St. Louis, Kansas City, Des Moines, are super wide streets.

Minneapolis is a bit wider than Cincy but better than the above.

When I first went to downtown Indy I keep thinking I must be just outside downtown but I wasn't

Offline DEPACincy

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2018, 01:23:36 PM »
Aside from 3cdc, no one else is really investing in the cbd. I donít get why.
come on.

Yea, it's definitely not true. There are other people investing in the CBD right now. There was an article in the Business Courier today about buildings being redeveloped along Fourth Street. there are several projects starting to happen on Seventh as well. But it has definitely come slower than in OTR. One reason I think this is the case is because of the streets. OTR has narrow streets and trees. All the main streets in the CBD have been blown up into highways. No one wants to live on a highway, even if they are in a high rise. Road diets throughout the CBD, adding bike lanes and tree lawns, would go a long way toward spurring more investment.
The streets in OTR are smaller then CBD because it's not downtown.  Downtowns streets are very standard for downtowns throughout the country.  I walk to and from work in downtown everyday and only 2nd and 3rd along with Central are comparable to highways.  Everything inbetween isn't anything close to a highway, cars can barely get over 30 mph before then inevitably hit a red light.

I wouldn't call them standard. The desirable neighborhoods in the downtowns of cities throughout the country all have narrower streets. Go to downtown Boston or Philly and see that narrow streets can support many times the population that you have in Cincy. I live downtown and I can tell you that many more than just 2nd and 3rd are like highways. Seventh, Fifth east of Fountain Square, Ninth, parts of Race and Elm all feel like highways. There is no need for more than two or three lanes in one direction on a downtown street. Anything after that does nothing to increase capacity and just makes the street more unsafe as people switch lanes more and have to get all the way over to turn. And barely over 30 mph is really fast for a downtown street with so many lights. We should narrow the streets and time the lights to encourage people to travel no faster than 20 mph. They'll get to where they're going just as fast, burn less gas, and stop and start less. There's lots of research on this topic out there.

Offline DEPACincy

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #46 on: July 12, 2018, 01:28:01 PM »
Yeah and actually downtown Cincinnati streets are much tighter than most other Midwest cities.

Indianapolis, St. Louis, Kansas City, Des Moines, are super wide streets.

Minneapolis is a bit wider than Cincy but better than the above.

When I first went to downtown Indy I keep thinking I must be just outside downtown but I wasn't

Correct, but I think Midwestern cities shouldn't be our model. We definitely don't want to model our downtown after Indy. Kansas City is an interesting one because they do have some ridiculously wide downtown streets but they also have some pretty narrow streets right downtown too. We've converted every east-west street downtown to a multi-lane, one way feeder to the highway. That's not a recipe for a strong residential downtown.

Online GCrites80s

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2018, 01:46:46 PM »
^Or for strong commercial either. Customer-facing businesses despise one-way streets.

Offline DEPACincy

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #48 on: July 12, 2018, 02:02:04 PM »
^Exactly!

Offline edale

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #49 on: July 12, 2018, 02:12:15 PM »
I'm not saying this as an excuse, but it's interesting that businesses are willing to overlook the rampant homelessness in places like San Francisco, but cite it as a reason to not even look at a downtown office in Cincinnati. I'd guess that it's easier to look the other way when you have the ridiculous economic resources of the Bay Area to power your business.

In the case of San Francisco, unless a business was ready to leave the West Coast entirely, they couldn't really move to another urban location to avoid the homeless. Across the bay in Oakland, the homeless situation is just as bad. Same with LA, San Diego, Portland, and Seattle. It's just a part of life out here.

It is interesting to hear about this apparent spike in homelessness in Cincinnati, though. It's often claimed here in California that the high housing costs are directly related to the homeless population. But if a market with just about the lowest housing costs in the country is also experiencing a spike, it would seem to discredit this argument. In Cincy, I would bet any spike in homelessness could at least partially be blamed on the heroin/opioid epidemic. Cincinnati seems to be about ground zero for that stuff, so all the junkies who lose their jobs and housing in SW Ohio, and large parts of Kentucky and Indiana make their way to the streets of downtown Cincinnati. I also wonder about the demolition and relocation of the drop inn center, and if that has resulted in more homeless on the streets.

Offline edale

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #50 on: July 12, 2018, 02:19:10 PM »
Street widths are absolutely not a problem in Downtown Cincinnati. There are a few stretches that need to be improved and narrowed, such as the aforementioned 2nd and 3rd on the riverfront, and 5th over by P&G, but most of Cincinnati has very narrow streets for a midwestern city. I think most Cincinnati streets feel about right sized downtown. Certainly better than the huge wide streets found in Cleveland or Detroit, or even the big wide streets of LA or San Diego. People are happy to live on Madison or Erie in Hyde Park and Oakley, both of which are busier and wider than most downtown streets. Hell, even the new residential building in Columbia Tusculum that is literally built adjacent to Columbia Parkway is a popular place to live, and they charge high rents! The problem with parts of downtown is the inactivity and the dead zones that are created by surface lots, parking garages, and institutional users (library, courthouse, etc.).

Offline DEPACincy

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #51 on: July 12, 2018, 02:44:42 PM »
Street widths are absolutely not a problem in Downtown Cincinnati. There are a few stretches that need to be improved and narrowed, such as the aforementioned 2nd and 3rd on the riverfront, and 5th over by P&G, but most of Cincinnati has very narrow streets for a midwestern city. I think most Cincinnati streets feel about right sized downtown. Certainly better than the huge wide streets found in Cleveland or Detroit, or even the big wide streets of LA or San Diego. People are happy to live on Madison or Erie in Hyde Park and Oakley, both of which are busier and wider than most downtown streets. Hell, even the new residential building in Columbia Tusculum that is literally built adjacent to Columbia Parkway is a popular place to live, and they charge high rents! The problem with parts of downtown is the inactivity and the dead zones that are created by surface lots, parking garages, and institutional users (library, courthouse, etc.).

It's all relative, I guess. I have lived my entire adult life in urban neighborhoods on the east coast and when I moved here the first thing I noticed is how wide the streets are, both downtown and in places like Oakely and Hyde Park. It's also one of the first things people comment on when they come visit me. I agree Cleveland and Detroit are worse though. I'd venture to guess that Madison and Erie would be even more in demand if they didn't function as highways. I agree with your last sentence though. I just don't think the problems are mutually exclusive.

Offline jam40jeff

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #52 on: July 12, 2018, 03:07:53 PM »
I agree Cleveland and Detroit are worse though.

Cleveland may have (marginally) wider downtown streets than Cincinnati, but I disagree that the feel is worse.

For example, Cleveland's "Main Street", Euclid Avenue, is probably as wide as Vine St. in Cincinnati, but the feel is worlds different.  There is a dedicated bus lane in each direction and one through travel lane.  Traffic moves very slowly and the sidewalks are wide, encouraging pedestrian activity.

Even a "highway feeder" like East 9th St., which is wider than Vine St. by one lane feels less like a highway due to having 2 through lanes in each direction plus parking.  The one way streets encourage people to drive faster and make the street feel less pedestrian friendly in my opinion.

Also, Cleveland has nothing like Central Parkway downtown.  The closest thing would be Superior Ave. in terms of width (although it's not nearly as wide), but again, Superior has been cut down to one through lane, a dedicated bus lane, and a median.

Offline IAGuy39

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #53 on: July 12, 2018, 03:26:22 PM »
^Central Parkway would be a lot better if they added some density in the spots where they have small one story buildings or empty lots. But yes, Central Parkway is very wide and it's even worse that is has hardly any traffic.

Offline DEPACincy

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #54 on: July 12, 2018, 03:52:28 PM »
I agree Cleveland and Detroit are worse though.

Cleveland may have (marginally) wider downtown streets than Cincinnati, but I disagree that the feel is worse.

For example, Cleveland's "Main Street", Euclid Avenue, is probably as wide as Vine St. in Cincinnati, but the feel is worlds different.  There is a dedicated bus lane in each direction and one through travel lane.  Traffic moves very slowly and the sidewalks are wide, encouraging pedestrian activity.

Even a "highway feeder" like East 9th St., which is wider than Vine St. by one lane feels less like a highway due to having 2 through lanes in each direction plus parking.  The one way streets encourage people to drive faster and make the street feel less pedestrian friendly in my opinion.

Also, Cleveland has nothing like Central Parkway downtown.  The closest thing would be Superior Ave. in terms of width (although it's not nearly as wide), but again, Superior has been cut down to one through lane, a dedicated bus lane, and a median.

You make good points. I retract my statement about Cleveland. They actually seem to use their street space a lot better than I remembered. I think the biggest problem is weird/big intersections like the one where Superior, W 6th, and Prospect come together.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2018, 04:00:40 PM »
Go to downtown Boston or Philly and see that narrow streets can support many times the population that you have in Cincy.

They have subways. 

Historically, the narrowness of Cincinnati's streets was thought of as a major problem.  During the streetcar era, there was not space for loading/unloading + thru traffic.  Same when cars appeared.  It all inevitably overlapped the streetcar tracks.  In the 1910s-20s, Cincinnati spent a ton of money narrowing sidewalks by 2 feet and adding 4 total feet to the downtown street widths. 

If Cincinnati had had a downtown north/south street like Canal St. in New Orleans, the whole history of the city would have been different because streetcars could have operated in a center reservation, and later, the subway could have been cheaply extended downtown, avoiding the whole issue of Central Parkway becoming the city's new Main St. 

Which, of course, is why it was named "Central" Parkway.  It was absolutely intended to become the new center of Cincinnati. 



Offline jam40jeff

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2018, 04:10:52 PM »
You make good points. I retract my statement about Cleveland. They actually seem to use their street space a lot better than I remembered. I think the biggest problem is weird/big intersections like the one where Superior, W 6th, and Prospect come together.

Yes, the southern end of the Warehouse District is a bit of a mess due to all the parking, and that intersection is probably the worst in downtown.

What is frustrating about Cincinnati is that the streets are narrower than many cities so there is potential.  (The hardest thing to change is the built environment.)  The one way streets need to be ditched altogether IMO and the sidewalks be upgraded/widened in many areas.

Offline bfwissel

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #57 on: July 12, 2018, 04:11:51 PM »
Um, so about Cincinnati's Homeless Population....
"Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett

Offline Robuu

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2018, 04:12:58 PM »
I agree Cleveland and Detroit are worse though.

Cleveland may have (marginally) wider downtown streets than Cincinnati, but I disagree that the feel is worse.

For example, Cleveland's "Main Street", Euclid Avenue, is probably as wide as Vine St. in Cincinnati, but the feel is worlds different.  There is a dedicated bus lane in each direction and one through travel lane.  Traffic moves very slowly and the sidewalks are wide, encouraging pedestrian activity.

Even a "highway feeder" like East 9th St., which is wider than Vine St. by one lane feels less like a highway due to having 2 through lanes in each direction plus parking.  The one way streets encourage people to drive faster and make the street feel less pedestrian friendly in my opinion.

Also, Cleveland has nothing like Central Parkway downtown.  The closest thing would be Superior Ave. in terms of width (although it's not nearly as wide), but again, Superior has been cut down to one through lane, a dedicated bus lane, and a median.

I just took rough curb-to-curb measurements of Euclid and Vine, using Google Earth's ruler tool. Euclid measured about 70', Vine about 50'.

Offline edale

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Re: Cincinnati's Homeless Population
« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2018, 04:17:08 PM »

Cleveland may have (marginally) wider downtown streets than Cincinnati, but I disagree that the feel is worse.

For example, Cleveland's "Main Street", Euclid Avenue, is probably as wide as Vine St. in Cincinnati, but the feel is worlds different.  There is a dedicated bus lane in each direction and one through travel lane.  Traffic moves very slowly and the sidewalks are wide, encouraging pedestrian activity.

Even a "highway feeder" like East 9th St., which is wider than Vine St. by one lane feels less like a highway due to having 2 through lanes in each direction plus parking.  The one way streets encourage people to drive faster and make the street feel less pedestrian friendly in my opinion.

Also, Cleveland has nothing like Central Parkway downtown.  The closest thing would be Superior Ave. in terms of width (although it's not nearly as wide), but again, Superior has been cut down to one through lane, a dedicated bus lane, and a median.

Hm, I guess this is a situation where we will need to agree to disagree. The streets in Cleveland felt very wide to me on each of my visits. The sidewalks are also wider. I do appreciate that Euclid has a median and dedicated transit lanes, and the median does help to break up the street a bit, just like the Central Parkway median does. But overall, Cleveland's downtown streets feel much too wide, and I've never felt that about the majority of Downtown Cincinnati streets.

You think E 9th feels like less of a highway than Vine St.?!

E. 9th:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5037838,-81.6898234,3a,75y,311.06h,88.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4QhoPqOr-wtfb8GKX0koPA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Vine:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1000906,-84.5126913,3a,75y,346.25h,91.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2sW3v4SYIUYvEOU4nLySRQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I'd say 4th St is just as much of a "main street' for downtown as anything, and you simply don't see anything like this in downtown Cleveland, Detroit, Columbus, Indy, etc:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1001607,-84.5113619,3a,75y,274h,94.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sX5a54n9C_-XCdkWl_yBQSw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656