Author Topic: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)  (Read 23462 times)

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Offline 327

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #690 on: July 02, 2018, 11:40:26 AM »
Trump's background is German so not technically WASP.

Online YABO713

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #691 on: July 02, 2018, 11:57:22 AM »
Trump's background is German so not technically WASP.

Ahhh, but the Anglo Saxons were the Germanic inhabitants of England... sooooo if we go back FAR enough...

Offline mu2010

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #692 on: July 02, 2018, 12:04:14 PM »

Online KJP

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #693 on: July 02, 2018, 07:29:54 PM »
It's almost as if other nations understand the value of multi-polar, multilateral trade agreements.

16 Asian countries could join to form the world's largest trading bloc as Trump is alienating allies and adversaries alike with tariffs https://www.axios.com/asian-trading-bloc-trump-trade-war-china-india-japan-000325a4-302f-46e3-931e-3072bcbbdd40.html
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Online KJP

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"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline jonoh81

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #695 on: July 03, 2018, 02:10:48 PM »
50% Of Americans Fear That The US Is Slipping Into An Authoritarian Dictatorship
https://politicsmaven.io/theintellectualist/news/50-of-americans-fear-that-the-us-is-slipping-into-an-authoritarian-dictatorship-2mY5fx1lLEGas6gP0RYLSw/

You can safely bet most of them didnít bother to vote.

Offline X

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #696 on: July 04, 2018, 12:15:25 AM »
I think there's a %, probably pretty close to Trump's approval rating, that are excited that the US is slipping into an authoritarian dictatorship.

Offline Ram23

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #697 on: July 04, 2018, 10:26:02 AM »
I think you really, really have to suspend reality to believe we're "slipping into an authoritarian dictatorship." Trump doesn't have any more power than any president who has come before him. We have the most comprehensive system of checks and balances on that power of any nation on earth. There's no possible way future elections will be cancelled. Trump will only serve his two terms, he won't stick around after. He isn't attempting to restrict personal freedoms, he's expanding them. I could go on and on, but of all the telltale signs of dictatorships, we're exhibiting about zero.

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #698 on: July 04, 2018, 10:40:15 AM »
I think you really, really have to suspend reality to believe we're "slipping into an authoritarian dictatorship." Trump doesn't have any more power than any president who has come before him. We have the most comprehensive system of checks and balances on that power of any nation on earth. There's no possible way future elections will be cancelled. Trump will only serve his two terms, he won't stick around after. He isn't attempting to restrict personal freedoms, he's expanding them. I could go on and on, but of all the telltale signs of dictatorships, we're exhibiting about zero.

You're right.  We are quite away off from actually slipping over the edge.  But as Americans we should all be concerned with hostility towards a free press, blatant disregard for civil liberties in police stops, and general rhetoric coming from the nation's highest office. 

Offline jonoh81

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #699 on: July 04, 2018, 10:44:30 AM »
I think you really, really have to suspend reality to believe we're "slipping into an authoritarian dictatorship." Trump doesn't have any more power than any president who has come before him. We have the most comprehensive system of checks and balances on that power of any nation on earth. There's no possible way future elections will be cancelled. Trump will only serve his two terms, he won't stick around after. He isn't attempting to restrict personal freedoms, he's expanding them. I could go on and on, but of all the telltale signs of dictatorships, we're exhibiting about zero.

What checks and balances, exactly?  His party controls all of government and has shown zero interest in reigning him in on anything.  As for Constitutional checks and balances, how do those work if Trump himself doesn't respect them or care?  What really prevents him from simply claiming the next election was rigged and staying in office per YABO's hypothetical? 

I'd also be curious for you to list the personal freedoms that Trump has expanded. 

Online Dougal

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #700 on: July 04, 2018, 11:53:57 AM »
I think there's a %, probably pretty close to Trump's approval rating, that are excited that the US is slipping into an authoritarian dictatorship.

There was a piece in the FT this week discussing the growing worldwide appeal of Chinese-style technocratic-authoritarian government.
There's nothing wrong with optimism, as long as you don't get your hopes up.

Offline X

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #701 on: July 04, 2018, 01:18:54 PM »
I don't see "technocratic" as a risk of Trump-ism, however.  It does seem that between the Trumps and his cabinet officials like Pruitt that kleptocratic-authoritarianism is what's in the works.  Think Russia (surprise, surprise), more so than China.

I think you really, really have to suspend reality to believe we're "slipping into an authoritarian dictatorship." Trump doesn't have any more power than any president who has come before him. We have the most comprehensive system of checks and balances on that power of any nation on earth. There's no possible way future elections will be cancelled. Trump will only serve his two terms, he won't stick around after. He isn't attempting to restrict personal freedoms, he's expanding them. I could go on and on, but of all the telltale signs of dictatorships, we're exhibiting about zero.

We aren't there yet, for sure.  But "slipping" seems accurate, though it would probably more to the point to say that we're being pushed into it by the Trump wing of the Republican Party.  The "push" is evident in the Presidents attacks on the press, the judiciary, congressional independence, and on private citizens who he perceives as his enemies- all the checks and balances on his power that you are referencing.  The "slip" is the general spinelessness of the rest of the Republican Party, which fails to hold him accountable for his actions.  It doesn't help that the Republicans keep on getting governing majorities without ever seeming to be able to get a popular mandate-the structure of representation is clearly becoming broken.

Online KJP

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #702 on: July 04, 2018, 10:38:28 PM »
“How can I be proud of my country when I’m constantly apologizing for what it does?”

Gallup: A record-low 47% of Americans are extremely proud to be Americans. I get it. I’m not extremely proud to be an American right now. Are you?
https://t.co/IalAIbft5N
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline jonoh81

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #703 on: July 05, 2018, 12:58:18 AM »
ďHow can I be proud of my country when Iím constantly apologizing for what it does?Ē

Gallup: A record-low 47% of Americans are extremely proud to be Americans. I get it. Iím not extremely proud to be an American right now. Are you?
https://t.co/IalAIbft5N

Read those comments... so many people are absolutely delusional.  The quote that says "The difference between patriotism and nationalism is that the patriot is proud of his country for what it does, and the nationalist is proud of his country no matter what it does..."  is spot on.  These people willingly choose to overlook what's going on, and I can only imagine 2 realistic reasons why- they are okay with what's happening because they actually support it, or they don't support it but the shame and horror of it is too hard to deal with, so they pretend everything's great.  It reminds me of a scene from that 1980's Cold War move The Day After, when one of the mothers continued to casually do housework even as the nukes were about to hit, and had to be dragged to shelter kicking and screaming.  The truth can be very hard for people to accept, especially when they've spent their lives under the belief that America is the greatest country on earth and could never, ever truly go wrong.

Online KJP

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #704 on: July 09, 2018, 05:20:29 PM »
Saw this on Facebook today.... If you turn off the news and talk to your neighbors, you'll learn more about your country including that it's more harmonious than you're being told.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline Foraker

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #705 on: July 10, 2018, 09:25:48 AM »

Online KJP

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #706 on: July 13, 2018, 10:26:13 PM »
Since the year 2000, the world has done great. But America has done only OK.

https://t.co/0xw7Xd8wJq
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Online KJP

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #707 on: July 14, 2018, 02:52:32 PM »
The only options may be to replace Congress with a parliament (also would offer a multi-party system and reduce the power of the executive branch) or divide the country into two countries--the 30 percent and the 70 percent. Otherwise partisanship and a rural/urban divide will gridlock this country for decades to come....

In about 20 years, half the population will live in eight states (and 70 percent of the Senate will represent 30 percent of the population--an old, white, rural electorate)....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/07/12/in-about-20-years-half-the-population-will-live-in-eight-states/
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Online KJP

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #708 on: July 18, 2018, 02:33:36 PM »
At a Toronto restaurant, just overheard the manager advising European tourists on their way to Niagara Falls: "The Canadian side is prettier. And you don't want to get stuck in an American holding cell."
https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/1019587976098172929?s=19

It's not surprising that foreign tourism to the USA is down 30% and falling.

Its rising in Canada.

New slogan: "Canada, with just the good kind of ice."
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 02:37:54 PM by KJP »
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline AmrapinVA

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #709 on: July 19, 2018, 08:42:53 AM »
Yeah Capitalism is the worst system post-WWII and has turned Americans into the worst individual monsters in the world. People were much happier and better under Communism. Just ignore Stalin, the Gulag, the Soviet Holocaust, Mao, Castro, the Aral Sea (which is no more), Chernobyl and Vladimir Putin. Peoples lives were super awesome. That's why so many countries stayed Communist after the Soviet Union fell.  :D :D

So Communism = Socialism? No wonder you are freaking out. You don't even know the difference.

I'm going to make you feel bad...

we're already Socialist here in the United States and have been since the New Deal

Do you guys actually read the articles posted here? I wonder.

After spending time finding sources that say Capitalism has turned Americans into monsters there's this from the Tribune piece:

Not to be confused for a totalitarian nostalgist, I would support a kind of socialism that would be democratic and aimed primarily at decommodifying labor, reducing the vast inequality brought about by capitalism, and breaking capital's stranglehold over politics and culture.

This idea is straight out of Mao and Stalin-era politics which is why he has the qualifier there. This isn't American "socialism". Hell, I think even Bernie Sanders would frown on this. Jeez.

At a Toronto restaurant, just overheard the manager advising European tourists on their way to Niagara Falls: "The Canadian side is prettier. And you don't want to get stuck in an American holding cell."
https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/1019587976098172929?s=19

It's not surprising that foreign tourism to the USA is down 30% and falling.

Its rising in Canada.

New slogan: "Canada, with just the good kind of ice."

Searched for the verification on the 30% decline. It has been declining since 2016. But 30%? Can't find it anywhere. Source?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 08:50:41 AM by AmrapinVA »

Online KJP

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #710 on: July 20, 2018, 10:50:31 AM »
Yep, that 30 percent is bullsh!t
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Online KJP

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #711 on: August 03, 2018, 05:52:32 PM »
Nixon lawyer John Dean: ĎI never feared for my country during Watergate ó I fear for our democracy nowí'
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/08/nixon-lawyer-john-dean-never-feared-country-watergate-fear-democracy-now/
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Online KJP

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #712 on: August 06, 2018, 01:22:21 PM »
What if a Constitutional Convention was called and no one could agree on keeping, deleting or adding language to this document. Is the Constitution still enforced afterwards or does it become less relevant or even irrelevant?

A Tea Party Movement to Overhaul the Constitution Is Quietly Gaining Steam
http://time.com/5356045/constitutional-convention-tea-party/
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 01:37:53 PM by KJP »
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Online gottaplan

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #713 on: August 06, 2018, 01:54:50 PM »
I found this article while late night reading - "why congressional leaders roll over for current administration"

Basically the theory is that so many of the "lions of congress" have left, the new inexperienced group has no other direction than to go with the party on all fronts.  And we all know that mentality is a sinking ship.  As i read this though, it made me re-think my previous support for term limits in Congress. 

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/08/02/congress-donald-trump-turnover-inexperience-partisanship-219077

Online KJP

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #714 on: August 06, 2018, 02:07:17 PM »
Term limits is the easy way out of avoiding the real problem -- too much special interest influence on Congress. Primarily it's about too much money and not enough about campaign finance reform. With term limits, it only makes the problem worse because inexperienced politicians rely on special interest even more, be it to write legislation for them and to rally the troops to get other congresspersons to sponsor or otherwise support said legislation. I've directly written perhaps a half-dozen pieces of legislation or parts thereof and been a part of many campaigns to get more people to call/write to Congress to get legislation passed. I would like nothing more than to merely offer legislative suggestions and have them be accepted or rejected by policy experts on Congressional staffs.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline AmrapinVA

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #715 on: August 06, 2018, 02:24:05 PM »
Nixon lawyer John Dean: ĎI never feared for my country during Watergate ó I fear for our democracy nowí'
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/08/nixon-lawyer-john-dean-never-feared-country-watergate-fear-democracy-now/

Not defending Trump but John Dean must have memory loss. Here's what Nixon said about a North Vietnam '72 offensive:

Weíre going to do it. Iím going to destroy the goddamn country, believe me, I mean destroy it if necessary. And let me say, even the nuclear weapons if necessary. It isnít necessary. But, you know, what I mean is, what shows you the extent to which Iím willing to go. By a nuclear weapon, I mean that we will bomb the living bejeezus out of North Vietnam and then if anybody interferes we will threaten the nuclear weapons.

A week later:

Nixon: Iíd rather use the nuclear bomb. Have you got that ready?
Kissinger: That, I think, would just be too much.
Nixon: A nuclear bomb, does that bother you?Ö I just want you to think big, Henry, for Christís sake! The only place where you and I disagree is with regard to the bombing. Youíre so goddamned concerned about civilians, and I donít give a damn. I donít care.
Kissinger: Iím concerned about the civilians because I donít want the world to be mobilized against you as a butcher.


Nixon repeatedly talked to Kissinger about using nukes against Communist strongholds during his time in office. A global nuke war would have done wonders for our nation.

Offline surfohio

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #716 on: August 06, 2018, 02:28:00 PM »
^ Holy cow. What a monster!

Online gottaplan

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #717 on: August 06, 2018, 02:45:10 PM »
Nixon lawyer John Dean: ĎI never feared for my country during Watergate ó I fear for our democracy nowí'
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/08/nixon-lawyer-john-dean-never-feared-country-watergate-fear-democracy-now/

Not defending Trump but John Dean must have memory loss. Here's what Nixon said about a North Vietnam '72 offensive:

Weíre going to do it. Iím going to destroy the goddamn country, believe me, I mean destroy it if necessary. And let me say, even the nuclear weapons if necessary. It isnít necessary. But, you know, what I mean is, what shows you the extent to which Iím willing to go. By a nuclear weapon, I mean that we will bomb the living bejeezus out of North Vietnam and then if anybody interferes we will threaten the nuclear weapons.

A week later:

Nixon: Iíd rather use the nuclear bomb. Have you got that ready?
Kissinger: That, I think, would just be too much.
Nixon: A nuclear bomb, does that bother you?Ö I just want you to think big, Henry, for Christís sake! The only place where you and I disagree is with regard to the bombing. Youíre so goddamned concerned about civilians, and I donít give a damn. I donít care.
Kissinger: Iím concerned about the civilians because I donít want the world to be mobilized against you as a butcher.


Nixon repeatedly talked to Kissinger about using nukes against Communist strongholds during his time in office. A global nuke war would have done wonders for our nation.

All that and yet his quote is "I never feared for my country..."????

Offline Robuu

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #718 on: August 06, 2018, 04:51:51 PM »
I'm guessing it means the Watergate saga didn't make him fear for the country. Like, he knew if shxt hit the fan, Nixon would walk away quietly and things would return to relative normalcy. I don't think a person with any awareness during the Cold War didn't fear for their country.

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Re: Notes on the Decline of a Great Nation (Commentary)
« Reply #719 on: August 06, 2018, 07:48:39 PM »
We're #1...in something.

People in prison per 100,000 of population, 2017.

US: 666
Israel: 265
Turkey: 254
Chile: 237
Czech Republic: 216
Estonia: 213
NZ: 210
Poland: 196
Mexico: 192
Australia: 162
England & Wales: 145
Spain: 130
Canada: 114
France: 101
Italy: 93
Germany: 76
Japan: 45

(OECD)

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1026615420378210309?s=19
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.