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Author Topic: Gun Rights  (Read 8170 times)

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Offline YABO713

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1830 on: November 10, 2017, 08:21:33 AM »
If you enjoy Colonial history, you'll probably love this multi-article blog I wrote a couple years ago about my family. Start with this introduction:

http://prendergast-rent-war.blogspot.com/2015/05/introduction.html

Then work your way up from the bottom in the blog archive. Enjoy!

That's awesome, Ken. You're very fortunate to have learned that much of your family's history.

Offline surfohio

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1831 on: November 10, 2017, 08:25:28 AM »
I cannot recommend this book enough. It elegantly shows the tools available for Justices to base their decisions.

https://www.amazon.com/Five-Types-Legal-Argument-Second/dp/1594605165

The Five Types of Legal Argument succeeds both as a work of legal theory and as a practical guide to legal reasoning for law students, lawyers and judges. Huhn shows readers how to identify, create, attack, and evaluate the five types of legal arguments (text, intent, precedent, tradition and policy) and how to weave the different types of arguments to get the theoretical and practical themes of the work.

Offline KJP

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1832 on: November 10, 2017, 06:39:23 PM »
Tim McGraw calls for "common sense" gun control: "Itís not about the Second Amendment" https://t.co/DfnjIb1TeV
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline KJP

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1833 on: November 11, 2017, 04:29:32 PM »
Utah has high gun ownership rates and also ranks well above the national average for gun deaths.

Interesting chart....

https://t.co/7llNzdqO5J
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline KJP

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1834 on: November 12, 2017, 12:57:47 PM »
ďA New Yorker is just as likely to be robbed as a Londoner, for instance, but the New Yorker is 54 times more likely to be killed in the process.Ē

https://t.co/hc7mxu79QH
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1835 on: November 14, 2017, 01:00:22 PM »

Offline KJP

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1836 on: November 14, 2017, 01:44:16 PM »
Exactly a month from today is the 5th anniversary of the shooting in Newtown, CT, which left 20 children & 6 staff members dead.

This NRA-bought Congress has done nothing to make us safer from guns. All they have done is caused a terrorized citizenry. https://t.co/r2v4iv0uxn
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline KJP

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1837 on: November 18, 2017, 06:50:16 PM »
New Quinnipiac Poll out this week -- 95% of Americans support universal background checks, including 94% of gun owners.

Support for strong, commonsense gun laws has never been higher. https://t.co/GentWLGHAy
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline KJP

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1838 on: November 24, 2017, 11:35:55 PM »
What could go wrong??

Thousands of names removed from FBI background check system
http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/361666-thousands-of-names-removed-from-fbi-background-check-system
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline DarkandStormy

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1839 on: December 06, 2017, 11:51:47 AM »
Quote
The Republican-led House is weighing a bill to make it easier for gun owners to legally carry concealed weapons across state lines, the first gun legislation in Congress since mass shootings in Nevada and Texas killed more than 80 people.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/house-weighs-republican-bill-easing-gun-restrictions-080426285--politics.html

Oh goody.

Offline Ram23

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1840 on: December 06, 2017, 01:47:33 PM »
^ This is a much needed law. It's incredibly difficult to move about the country with the arms you are constitutionally allowed to possess, and that shouldn't be the case. Further, the Full Faith and Credit Clause gives Congress the power to prescribe such a law.

Offline freefourur

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1841 on: December 06, 2017, 01:51:33 PM »
^ The only issue with this is that some states require you to only have a pulse to get a CCW while other states require more.  But states rights only exists for conservatives on issues they don't like such as minorities voting, people getting healthcare and gays getting married.

Offline 327

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1842 on: December 06, 2017, 02:21:19 PM »
Constitutionally, Ram23 has a point.  Imagine if drivers licenses were only good in one state.  I'm sure there is a lowest common denominator state for those, and they're still good nationwide.  This is one of those items where Democrats might want to have some leeway, because there's plenty of support for CCW within their own ranks. 

When Republicans say "they're coming for your guns" Democrats need to be able to say "not at all, we support common sense regulation as discussed in the second amendment, but we do believe in the second amendment."

Offline freefourur

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1843 on: December 06, 2017, 02:23:04 PM »
Driver's license is not a good analogy because each state makes their own traffic laws and one must obey those laws no matter what state the license was issued from.

Offline surfohio

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1844 on: December 06, 2017, 02:39:14 PM »
I'd like to take this semi-off topic and ask why you cannot get a drivers license in more than one state.

Offline 327

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1845 on: December 06, 2017, 02:39:45 PM »
Outside of CCW licensing, I'm sure each state's gun laws would still apply.  Just like each state can make all the traffic laws they want-- until they start denying other states' licenses. 

I'd like to take this semi-off topic and ask why you cannot get a drivers license in more than one state.

You can.  It happens when people move, there's usually some overlap.  Or did you mean you want 50 of them?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 03:11:13 PM by 327 »

Offline freefourur

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1846 on: December 06, 2017, 03:11:02 PM »
Since voting is a constitutional right, I can support uniform gun laws by allowing the most lax laws to prevail as long as we do the same for voting.  Who's with me?

Offline surfohio

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1847 on: December 06, 2017, 03:30:17 PM »
Outside of CCW licensing, I'm sure each state's gun laws would still apply.  Just like each state can make all the traffic laws they want-- until they start denying other states' licenses. 

I'd like to take this semi-off topic and ask why you cannot get a drivers license in more than one state.

You can.  It happens when people move, there's usually some overlap.  Or did you mean you want 50 of them?

I was advised by Lakewood Police to destroy my valid OH drivers license because I had a CA one. I didn't. But I checked Ohio law and found that:
Chapter 4507: DRIVER'S LICENSE LAW - Ohio Revised Code
codes.ohio.gov/orc/4507
(2) No person shall receive a driver's license, or a motorcycle operator's endorsement of a driver's or commercial driver's license, unless and until the person surrenders to the registrar all valid licenses issued to the person by another jurisdiction recognized by this state. The registrar shall report the surrender of a license to ...

Also this:
Can you possess two drivers licenses at once? | CarInsurance.com
https://www.carinsurance.com/two-drivers-licenses.aspx

State laws differ, but, in general, you cannot possess two different state's driver's license at the same time. Normally, you need to be licensed in the state that you are considered to have permanent residency in and that license would be good to use throughout the United States to drive as long as it's valid.

Offline 327

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1848 on: December 06, 2017, 03:45:17 PM »
I thought you meant being valid in two states.  Realistically you're going to be valid in both states' systems for a while after you move.  When I moved back here from MI, that license was still good for several years but I was required to get an Ohio license within 6 months or something.  When I did, they let me keep the card from MI.

Offline surfohio

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1849 on: December 06, 2017, 04:06:07 PM »
I thought you meant being valid in two states.  Realistically you're going to be valid in both states' systems for a while after you move.  When I moved back here from MI, that license was still good for several years but I was required to get an Ohio license within 6 months or something.  When I did, they let me keep the card from MI.

So they let you keep your MI license in clear violation of Ohio law! You should have made a citizens arrest on that BMV employee.

Ok, I won't go any more off topic I promise.

Online Gramarye

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1850 on: December 07, 2017, 10:07:32 AM »
Since voting is a constitutional right, I can support uniform gun laws by allowing the most lax laws to prevail as long as we do the same for voting.  Who's with me?

Here's a crazy constitutional law secret: Voting is actually not a constitutional right.  That's why the various provisions in the Constitution about the right to vote are merely about certain bases upon which the right to voting cannot be denied, not positive commandments that "all _____ shall have the right to vote."  There are also Supreme Court cases imposing further restrictions on restrictions of the franchise (the poll tax).

Offline freefourur

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1851 on: December 07, 2017, 10:12:20 AM »
Amendment 15:

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

This first part of the sentence implies a right of All citizens to vote which shall not be denied.

Offline smith

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1852 on: December 07, 2017, 10:12:28 AM »
Since voting is a constitutional right, I can support uniform gun laws by allowing the most lax laws to prevail as long as we do the same for voting.  Who's with me?

Here's a crazy constitutional law secret: Voting is actually not a constitutional right.  That's why the various provisions in the Constitution about the right to vote are merely about certain bases upon which the right to voting cannot be denied, not positive commandments that "all _____ shall have the right to vote."  There are also Supreme Court cases imposing further restrictions on restrictions of the franchise (the poll tax).

Well nice to know that the constitution provides for anyone that could possibly want weapons of mass killing, but not for anyone that wants mass voting.   

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1853 on: December 07, 2017, 10:59:08 AM »
Felons can be denied the right to vote.

Offline freefourur

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1854 on: December 07, 2017, 11:00:28 AM »
Felons can be denied the right to vote.

They shouldn't be.  But that's a discussion for another thread.

Online Gramarye

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1855 on: December 07, 2017, 11:22:01 AM »
Driver's license is not a good analogy because each state makes their own traffic laws and one must obey those laws no matter what state the license was issued from.

That analogy will still hold with respect to firearms, too.  If one state has a stand-your-ground law but the one that issued your permit does not, there's no way you'd be able to argue that you were allowed to stand your ground in State B that doesn't recognize such a law just because State A that granted your license has such a law.

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1856 on: December 07, 2017, 11:47:00 AM »
A ton of cars driven on a daily basis in Ohio would fail WV safety and appearance inspection but we can still drive them there. But it's illegal for everyone to left lane block and change lanes in an intersection there unlike here.

Online Gramarye

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1857 on: December 07, 2017, 12:04:48 PM »
Amendment 15:

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

This first part of the sentence implies a right of All citizens to vote which shall not be denied.

The patent falsity of this argument is demonstrated by the fact that at the time those words were written, women still did not have the right to vote.  The prohibition against discrimination on the basis of gender came four amendments later.  Even after that, states were free to establish minimum voting ages before the passage of the Twenty-Sixth Amendment.  In fact, technically (though I'm not aware of any state ever doing so), they would have a pretty strong argument that they could have imposed maximum voting ages.

Offline freefourur

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1858 on: December 07, 2017, 12:06:14 PM »
^ So it seems that you agree with liberals that the constitution is an imperfect document.  Now that we've gotten that squared away...

Online Gramarye

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Re: Gun Rights
« Reply #1859 on: December 07, 2017, 12:08:01 PM »
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