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Author Topic: Gun Rights  (Read 7704 times)

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Offline ColDayMan

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Gun Rights
« on: July 20, 2012, 08:33:51 AM »
Terrible.

Gunman kills 12 in Colorado movie theater



(CNN) -- A heavily armed gunman attacked an Aurora, Colorado, movie theater early Friday, tossing tear gas before opening fire on the terrified audience and killing 12 and wounding 38, authorities said. The theater was showing the new Batman movie, "The Dark Knight Rises."

Witness recalls chaos after gunman bursts into theater

One of the injured was just 3 months old, according to hospital workers.

Police arrested a man believed to be the shooter in a rear parking lot of the theater, Frank Fania, a police spokesman, told CNN.

More below:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/us/colorado-theater-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 03:20:31 PM by ColDayMan »
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Offline jjames0408

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2012, 08:58:07 AM »
People may say what they want about main cities, but the real newsmaking crazies are in the suburbs.  This is terrible.  I don't know how someone could ever hurt another human, let alone a baby.

Offline Hts121

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2012, 09:00:13 AM »
Tragic...... but am I the only one wondering what a 3month old baby was doing at a midnight screening of Dark Knight Rises?

Offline gottaplan

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2012, 09:04:26 AM »
Going to be interesting to see how this obviously mental person got access to the gun(s) used in the massacre

Offline E Rocc

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2012, 09:19:48 AM »
Going to be interesting to see how this obviously mental person got access to the gun(s) used in the massacre

How "obviously" was he mental before the incident? 

If we're going to continue to take the strictly civil libertarian approach we currently do towards de-institutionalization, are we going to keep having these types of incidents from time to time?

If we're not, is the cure worse than the disease?

Offline Quimbob

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2012, 09:34:26 AM »
Tragic...... but am I the only one wondering what a 3month old baby was doing at a midnight screening of Dark Knight Rises?
poorer people who can't get a overnight babysitter do this.
I went to a movie with an infant once (not mine). I had the same reaction - WTF?
but the kid slept though the whole thing. It was a Chuck Norris movie so it wan't quiet either.

Offline KyleCincy

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2012, 09:39:50 AM »
People may say what they want about main cities, but the real newsmaking crazies are in the suburbs.  This is terrible.  I don't know how someone could ever hurt another human, let alone a baby.

Evil murderers or those with extreme mental conditions come from everywhere and all walks of life. I don't think Suburbs had anything to do with it. Killer is from San Diego and that is where he grew up according to news reports.

Offline mrclifton88

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Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2012, 09:47:47 AM »
My aunt and uncle live on the west side of Denver but I had to wait for someone at this mall just last year. Frightening to know I was there but of course, this could happen anywhere at any time.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 09:48:32 AM by mrclifton88 »

Offline Mr Sparkle

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2012, 09:55:10 AM »
People may say what they want about main cities, but the real newsmaking crazies are in the suburbs.  This is terrible.  I don't know how someone could ever hurt another human, let alone a baby.
Hmm I expected the usual argument about gun control to be the 1st comment, but this, this is just obscene

Offline jjames0408

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2012, 10:02:58 AM »
Obscene that the majority of shootings are in the suburbs?? I don't find that obscene at all. Of the last 12 major shootings 10 were in suburban areas with the other two being suburban areas of a city.

Offline Hts121

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2012, 10:13:08 AM »
^^Reports are the nut had an assault rifle capable of holding 30 rounds.  As much as it might annoy you personally, times like these call for a discussion about gun control (note that"control" is not synonymous with "ban") 

Offline Grumpy

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2012, 10:14:02 AM »
People may say what they want about main cities, but the real newsmaking crazies are in the suburbs.  This is terrible.  I don't know how someone could ever hurt another human, let alone a baby.
Hmm I expected the usual argument about gun control to be the 1st comment, but this, this is just obscene
Agreed.

Offline Grumpy

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2012, 10:16:57 AM »
Obscene that the majority of shootings are in the suburbs?? I don't find that obscene at all. Of the last 12 major shootings 10 were in suburban areas with the other two being suburban areas of a city.
Even if it were true, implying that suburban living was a factor in a tragedy is in poor taste IMO.

Offline E Rocc

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2012, 10:43:54 AM »
Obscene that the majority of shootings are in the suburbs?? I don't find that obscene at all. Of the last 12 major shootings 10 were in suburban areas with the other two being suburban areas of a city.

Those are the ones that make the national news.   Take a look at what's been going on in Chicago lately.

Before you try to assign politics to this, take a look online.  The early indications are that this guy might have been Black Bloc...

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2012, 10:51:27 AM »
As usual with these types of incidents, I'm sure that these guns were originally obtained legally.

Offline Hts121

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2012, 11:37:48 AM »
^^How was he trying to assign politics?  I also don't think he was talking about gang-violence, but rather mass shootings of innocent people in isolated incidents.  Lone, nut-job gunmen don't have 'politics' driving them.... only the voices in their head.  Didn't stop you from injecting it into the conversation.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 11:39:09 AM by Hts121 »

Offline BelievelandD1

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2012, 11:44:14 AM »
People may say what they want about main cities, but the real newsmaking crazies are in the suburbs.  This is terrible.  I don't know how someone could ever hurt another human, let alone a baby.
Hmm I expected the usual argument about gun control to be the 1st comment, but this, this is just obscene
Agreed.

I actually agree with JJames here and I tell you why.  You see more people "snap" in the suburbs than you do in cities.  City crime happens all the time because of drugs, sex, etc.  These massacres and shocking stories typically come from more affluent areas where people are expected to succeed and have the pressure of being better than the next person from peers, parents.  When expectations cannot be met, or perhaps in school shootings cases "cliques" form and people feel inadequate...this type of thing happens.  The worst massacre was Virginia Tech, while that is rural, the shooter was from suburban DC and pretty much hated everything that his community stood for.  Its much easier to be a black sheep in a suburb than it is a city.

Offline jhonopolis

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2012, 12:18:09 PM »
Obscene that the majority of shootings are in the suburbs?? I don't find that obscene at all. Of the last 12 major shootings 10 were in suburban areas with the other two being suburban areas of a city.
Even if it were true, implying that suburban living was a factor in a tragedy is in poor taste IMO.

I agree. Turning this into a City vs Suburb thing is terrible.

And ive heard a report that a six year old was killed. How terrible this whole event is.

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2012, 12:50:17 PM »
One of the witnesses being interviewed made it sound like someone let him in through a fire exit near the movie screen, yet the police are saying that they think he acted alone.  If acting alone, how exactly would he have been able to get into the theater through one of those emergency entrances?  I always assumed that those things were locked tight from the inside.

Offline Loretto

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2012, 12:58:15 PM »
An early report I read was that he "kicked in" a fire exit door which didn't make sense to me, but reports coming in are this guy was decked out so him having something to quickly circumvent the door isn't far fetched either.

A friend of mine (not from Colorado) was posting pics of his daughter and friends dressed up (some modest costuming) for the midnight showing.  Today he is just off the wall lashing out about news coverage and such.

Offline KyleCincy

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2012, 01:04:12 PM »
Obscene that the majority of shootings are in the suburbs?? I don't find that obscene at all. Of the last 12 major shootings 10 were in suburban areas with the other two being suburban areas of a city.

The odds are in favor of that being the case, greater cincy has what a population of 2.3 Million and only 300,000 live in the city. More people live in the burbs and the burbs are much larger geographically.

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2012, 01:11:17 PM »
Today he is just off the wall lashing out about news coverage and such.

How so?

Offline Loretto

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2012, 01:14:05 PM »
He's going on about glorifying the shooter, headlines like "Batman Movie Massacre" that he thinks is inappropriate.  It's just very odd behavior for him.

Offline Hts121

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2012, 01:16:52 PM »
I hate it when "glorify" is used to descrive media coverage of an event like this.  I get the psychology of it all, but obviously, with this being the largest mass murder in recent American history, the media is absolutely going to and should cover it.

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2012, 02:28:57 PM »
Yeah, I can see that side of the argument, but the media is going to cover it...and I don't think it's being covered it any differently than other recent major shootings.

Offline Loretto

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2012, 03:26:02 PM »
My point wasn't his actual arguments it was more to point how crazy people get over these things when they feel even the most cursory connection.  Personally I'd agree with him if it just wasn't so out of left field for his normal conversational disposition.

Growing up in a maligned social group during the Columbine era what this guy says makes a lot of sense to me.



Also, the overreaction begins:

"AMC Theatres said it will not let any guests in costumes or face-covering masks into the theaters, and issued a ban on fake weapons. The company added that anyone wanting a refund in light of this new policy will be granted one. “We are taking necessary precautions to ensure our guests who wish to enjoy a movie this weekend can do so with as much peace of mind as possible in these circumstances,” AMC Theatres said in a news release.

I get this as a matter of company practice, and the ban on fake weapons may even be sensible, both from the perspective of preventing people from walking in the door with the real things disguised as fakes (although as Aurora tells us, that’s hardly the only way to get guns and gas into a theater) and from the question of where they put them once the screening starts. But it does make me pretty sad to think that theaters would start banning costumes altogether. Whatever a lone murderer does, the impulse to play, and dress up, and pay creative homage to culture you love is not the problem here."

http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2012/07/20/560291/fox-proposes-banning-costumes-at-movies-amc-theaters-already-has/?mobile=nc
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 03:27:42 PM by Loretto »

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2012, 04:00:14 PM »
I know that this is a discussion that few want to have, but if this guy is armed with a knife, less people (if any) die in that theater last night.

For those that argue for gun rights, and think that the status quo is acceptable (or that rights need to be expanded), are you okay with these types of incidents happening once or twice a year?  Because if nothing changes (or gun rights expand), these incidents WILL continue to happen and they must be considered as de facto collateral damage of the Second Amendment.  Is this collateral damage acceptable?

Online surfohio

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2012, 04:07:44 PM »
For those that argue for gun rights, and think that the status quo is acceptable (or that rights need to be expanded), are you okay with these types of incidents happening once or twice a year? 

Can you think of a more inflammatory way to debate this issue?

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2012, 04:09:52 PM »
The guy also seemed really fond of bombs as well. In countries with restrictive weapons laws, bombings replace armed massacres.

Offline jhonopolis

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Re: Colorado: Batman movie massacre
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2012, 05:08:25 PM »
I know that this is a discussion that few want to have, but if this guy is armed with a knife, less people (if any) die in that theater last night.

For those that argue for gun rights, and think that the status quo is acceptable (or that rights need to be expanded), are you okay with these types of incidents happening once or twice a year?  Because if nothing changes (or gun rights expand), these incidents WILL continue to happen and they must be considered as de facto collateral damage of the Second Amendment.  Is this collateral damage acceptable?

Tell me why Switzerland is one of the safest countries in the world, even though they one of the highest guns per capita?

"Police statistics for the year 2006 records 34 killings or attempted killings involving firearms, compared to 69 cases involving bladed weapons and 16 cases of unarmed assault. Cases of assault resulting in bodily harm numbered 89 (firearms) and 526 (bladed weapons). As of 2007, Switzerland had a population of about 7,600,000. This would put the rate of killings or attempted killings with firearms at about one for every quarter million residents yearly. This represents a decline of aggravated assaults involving firearms since the early 1990s. The majority of gun crimes involving domestic violence are perpetrated with army ordnance weapons, while the majority of gun crime outside the domestic sphere involves illegally held firearms.