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Author Topic: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News  (Read 1760 times)

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Offline down4cle

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #690 on: May 10, 2017, 04:37:50 PM »
Prospect.  It started in the lot and they moved east
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 04:42:08 PM by down4cle »

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #691 on: May 10, 2017, 04:39:12 PM »
"the lit"?
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Offline down4cle

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #692 on: May 10, 2017, 04:41:58 PM »
lot....typo

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #693 on: May 10, 2017, 04:46:16 PM »
OK. That's all VERY interesting. Wonder why they started from the Hippodrome lot when they could have started from anywhere, including the top of the parking garage in the Hippodrome lot, or from the plaza across the street from the Medical Mutual building or, for that matter, from the roof of the Medical Mutual building?? And I guess just as important, WHO were they?

OK architects on this board, any ideas?
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Offline down4cle

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #694 on: May 10, 2017, 04:50:16 PM »
I didn't get a chance to stop and chat.  I had a meeting with a client to get to.

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #695 on: May 10, 2017, 05:17:56 PM »
But someone reading these posts knows the answers. PM me, please. :) I'll keep you off the record.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 05:20:38 PM by KJP »
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Offline sky

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #696 on: May 11, 2017, 10:09:48 AM »
Which lot is the "Hippodrome lot"

Offline down4cle

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #697 on: May 11, 2017, 10:24:20 AM »
Parking lot between Euclid and Prospect immediately west of E. 8th

Offline Mendo

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #698 on: May 11, 2017, 10:26:19 AM »
It's the surface lot and parking garage bounded by Prospect, East 8th, and Euclid. If you want to look it up on a map, look for 798 Euclid Ave.

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #699 on: May 11, 2017, 10:28:48 AM »
Which lot is the "Hippodrome lot"

It's the parking lot and garage along and west of the East 8th Alley....

Hippodrome lot by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr
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Offline sky

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #700 on: May 11, 2017, 10:58:24 AM »
Thank you.  That lot is a great development site especially having a attached parking garage in the rear. 

Offline down4cle

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #701 on: May 11, 2017, 11:00:29 AM »
To be clear though, it looked like the lot was just used to launch the drone and then they flew it east over the adjacent buildings.

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #702 on: May 11, 2017, 11:02:55 AM »
It is a good development site however I haven't heard anything about the Goldbergs being active in courting one of the major office tenants that are seeking to build new buildings downtown. Of course it could always be a residential structure built there but there's been no scuttlebutt about that either.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline mrclifton88

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #703 on: May 11, 2017, 03:41:06 PM »
I assume this means nothing and is just a routine project, but they also seem to be refinishing/polishing the gold entrance to the Rose Building on East Ninth.

Offline sizzlinbeef

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #704 on: May 11, 2017, 03:45:46 PM »
Yes, they clean/polish the door just about every year.  I would expect an announcement very soon.  Maybe within the next week or two.

Offline mrclifton88

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #705 on: May 11, 2017, 04:52:49 PM »
Should we still prepare to be underwhelmed?

Offline sizzlinbeef

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #706 on: May 11, 2017, 04:55:08 PM »
If you were hoping to have the entire company consolidate to a single iconic downtown new-build skyscraper, probably.

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #707 on: May 11, 2017, 05:01:40 PM »
If I pull that sentence apart, it could mean there won't be a new-build skyscraper, or at least it won't be iconic, or only the downtown staff and a few suburban staffpersons will relocate to a new downtown location, or the location won't be downtown at all! ;) But I presume based on past messages is that this relocation is primarily to get out of soon-to-be-expiring leases (2020) and the rest (including in-flux federal healthcare laws) will sort itself out later.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline sizzlinbeef

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #708 on: May 11, 2017, 05:17:11 PM »
Here's some random quotes from KJP

there won't be a new-build skyscraper, or at least it won't be iconic

the downtown staff and a few suburban staffpersons will relocate to a new downtown location

and a
suburban
location

Offline YO to the CLE

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #709 on: May 11, 2017, 05:26:29 PM »
So basically, the HQ will remain downtown probably in a mid rise or renovated building. We won't get any new employees working downtown, but we won't lose any either? We're possibly getting a new building which maybe means that the rose building will open up for residential. I guess I can live with this outcome

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #710 on: May 11, 2017, 05:41:13 PM »
I'm greedy. If the Rose Building eventually is converted to residential, then that's the best part of this deal. Sounds like there's just too much up in the air right now regarding federal healthcare laws for MM to make any big moves for the future. And with at least two of their leases expiring in 2020, they can't wait for the feds.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline mrclifton88

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #711 on: May 11, 2017, 05:44:54 PM »
I think our shot at an iconic skyscraper will solely be coming from Sherwin Williams.  But if MM could build something fairly substantial on the Hipp lot that is around the same height as the surrounding structures I think I would be happy...  I guess we will have to be patient and see what MM announces!  (I don't like being patient)

Offline sizzlinbeef

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #712 on: May 11, 2017, 06:24:13 PM »
Hopefully these rumors/speculations are wrong.  I wouldn't throw out the possibility of something visible from progressive field based on MM's focus on sports and marketing Gateway in general .  That may fit the Bolivar or Hippodrome  scenario.

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #713 on: May 11, 2017, 07:27:32 PM »
In all likelihood, if MM is announcing something this month, then it's probably new construction unless an existing building needs significant modifications to accommodate them. And the only existing building with that much space to accommodate MM's current downtown staff of 1,300 is 925 Euclid. Their development plan is for retaining 400,000 sf for office -- and MM can fit into that with space left over. If MM is moving to 925 Euclid without significantly modifying the office space to be retained, then the timeline necessary for that is likely short.

So that's why I think an announcement this month is for new construction. Accommodating 1,300 +/- employees in a modern, efficient building with floorplates averaging about 25,000 sf means an office building about 10 or 11 stories tall. MM officials have said they don't want to own their building. And MM is right up against the deadline when they have to move forward on a new building -- with a developer who has a track record of delivering projects quickly. That probably means Geis. And if that's the case, I'm thinking the old Ameritrust garage is where the new Medical Mutual building will go. If true, it will probably be on top of a parking garage that's probably twice as large as the one that's there now. That doesn't mean twice as tall, because Geis owns land all around that parking garage. It can occupy a larger footprint with an office building on top of it. So it may be taller than 10 "stories" after all.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline simplythis

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #714 on: May 11, 2017, 07:57:27 PM »
Is there are reason other than the timeline needed for new construction with their lease expiring in 2020 that everyone is excited about a possible new announcement this month. We
have been talking about a new highrise from MM for over a year. And nobody has any real inside news. Just pure speculation.

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #715 on: May 11, 2017, 11:41:59 PM »
And nobody has any real inside news.

Is that your speculation? ;)

I can't speak for others here, but MM isn't renewing it's lease at the Rose Building. They've already said that. So if they're moving to an existing building downtown, they don't have to make that decision/announcement now unless a major renovation of an old building is involved. Why would they do that if they could renovate the building they're in now? They're not going to do that either. MM reps have already said that publicly, too. They've made it quite clear that the Rose Building is too outdated for their needs. So if they're going to construct a new building, it is going to have to be announced and put through the city approvals process now. MM's Rose Building lease ends at the end of 2020. Their Strongsville lease ends in early 2020. It can take at least 18 months to construct a significant office building measuring at least a couple hundred thousand square feet. So now we're back to mid- to late-2018 for a groundbreaking. The city approvals process, pre-development, programming, etc. assuming everything goes well, could take 12 months. So that brings us to mid- to late-2017 for an announcement -- more if the developer doesn't yet have site control or has to do demolition, environmental assessments, remediation, more approvals, FAA/EPA, etc. And I'm sure MM wants some recovery time built into their schedule in case they encounter anything unforeseen from digging and constructing in an old downtown area. So based on that schedule, we're right about at the drop-dead date.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #716 on: May 12, 2017, 12:23:47 AM »
So as we've been discussing here, recent real estate transfers suggest something is brewing at/near East 9th and Bolivar. I've speculated that this could be the new Medical Mutual building. If so, the spot for them to land would be on Geis properties totaling nearly 1.5 acres, between East 9th, Prospect, Bolivar and the Carter Manor residential building. This includes the existing, 8-level 900 Tower parking deck. My speculation is that this would be demolished and a new parking deck built with a two-story tall atrium on the ground level, parking above, and at least a 10-story office building above.

How much parking? The current 900 Tower parking deck measures about 270,000 square feet. Medical Mutual staff currently park at the Hippodrome lot and garage. That garage measures about 180,000 sf on six levels. That's 450,000 sf of parking.

But the footprint for the Geis property is about 85,000 square feet. It butts up right against the Carter Manor building. So let's assume a new parking deck has 66,000 square feet on each level. It would need only seven levels of parking to offer that 450,000 sf of parking.

With a two-story tall (but really only one level due to high ceilings) atrium/lobby, topped by seven levels of parking, topped by at least 10 stories of office building, that's still a significant structure. And, who knows, it may be a few more stories of office building?  Then again, the existing parking deck could be left alone, a new Medical Mutual building might fit on the vacant lot along the north side of Bolivar (and take out the two-level parking deck) and offer 20,000 sf floorplates (which means at least a 13-story building). The Frangos buildings across the street could be razed for a new parking deck or retrofitted as parking garages (which might explain why Jobs Ohio was suddenly booted out of there).

All of this assumes the Geis property on East 9th is in play....
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 12:34:11 AM by KJP »
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Offline freethink

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #717 on: May 12, 2017, 01:02:02 AM »
^ It's funny you should bring this up regarding the 900 Tower Parking deck. Recently I was trying to determine if that garage was capable of being built on top of much like 515. Looking into the history of the garage didn't offer any clues. But most concrete structured garages if the load can be transferred adequately could have that capability. This can be done through a transfer mat and transfer girder which would spread the load for increased capacity.
Because I am sure the county has an agreement somewhere with Geis that a certain amount of garage spaces are available to them. So I can't see that garage coming down without a fight.  Not to mention that it is used by the hotel/residences/hienens etc. We are talking 2 years without it.
So is building on top of the garage an option? It would be able to stay open and shorten construction time.
And yes this is all speculation. Kind of what we do here.

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #718 on: May 12, 2017, 01:08:07 AM »
And yes this is all speculation. Kind of what we do here.

Yep!

All true except one thing... The 900 Tower parking deck is a dump. It's pushing 50 years old.
 
BTW I see the Heinen's parkers are directed to the Hippodrome lot.
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Offline Firenze98

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Re: Cleveland: Downtown: Gateway District: Development and News
« Reply #719 on: May 12, 2017, 09:14:25 AM »
Was the drone flying along the eave of the Rose building?  It could have just been surveillance to check condition of the building to comply with the new requirements to maintain building exteriors.