Author Topic: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments  (Read 45766 times)

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Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1080 on: August 10, 2018, 08:29:22 AM »
^My take away from that article is not as positive as yours.  It seems at this point that they really don't have any idea what they want to do with the mall and whether  what they are brainstorming will actually work.  I thought after two years of ownership they would be further along in their planning process.

Offline Mendo

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1081 on: August 10, 2018, 09:07:53 AM »
It sounds like their plans are to keep it "mall-ish" with a significant retail component. Oddly enough keeping it a mall might be the path of least resistance. Especially if the downtown and adjacent neighborhoods population continues to rise.

Offline mrclifton88

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1082 on: August 10, 2018, 10:15:39 AM »
They are probably further along than he can discuss...  I guess time will tell.  I do like that they are going to attempt to address the confusing layout as well as Huron.  I wish they would have asked in the Podcast about the land on the other side of Huron... obviously that is the missing piece.  It would be nice if they are planning whatever is built on that land in conjunction with the redo of Tower City so it is cohesive.  There is so much potential

Offline freefourur

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1083 on: August 10, 2018, 10:17:37 AM »
They are probably further along than he can discuss...  I guess time will tell.  I do like that they are going to attempt to address the confusing layout as well as Huron.  I wish they would have asked in the Podcast about the land on the other side of Huron... obviously that is the missing piece.  It would be nice if they are planning whatever is built on that land in conjunction with the redo of Tower City so it is cohesive.  There is so much potential

I always felt like Tower City lacked good signage especially on the Public Square side.  It is hard to even know what is there if you don;t already know. 

Offline mu2010

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1084 on: August 10, 2018, 10:23:23 AM »
^Could be due to historic preservation issues? Not sure if the complex is bound by any of that but if it is I'm sure that would make signage more complicated.

Offline freefourur

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1085 on: August 10, 2018, 10:29:02 AM »
^Could be due to historic preservation issues? Not sure if the complex is bound by any of that but if it is I'm sure that would make signage more complicated.

There could be preservation issues.  But a sign could be placed on the plaza identifying the retail center and transit station.

Offline Cleburger

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1086 on: August 10, 2018, 12:33:55 PM »
It sounds like their plans are to keep it "mall-ish" with a significant retail component. Oddly enough keeping it a mall might be the path of least resistance. Especially if the downtown and adjacent neighborhoods population continues to rise.

Tower City is clearly where any outlet-style mall belongs--not on the lakefront.   I do hope they make this happen with a mix of outlet stores and other retail suitable for the growing downtown population base.

Offline Enginerd

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1087 on: August 10, 2018, 01:30:27 PM »
^Could be due to historic preservation issues? Not sure if the complex is bound by any of that but if it is I'm sure that would make signage more complicated.

There could be preservation issues.  But a sign could be placed on the plaza identifying the retail center and transit station.

Is it also problematic that the Terminal Tower and Tower City have different owners but are conjoined? Specifically the Public Square entrance.

But I agree the wayfinding is BAD. I don’t think a visitor would know stores, a movie theater or the rapid station lies behind those doors.

Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1088 on: August 10, 2018, 02:17:41 PM »
^Could be due to historic preservation issues? Not sure if the complex is bound by any of that but if it is I'm sure that would make signage more complicated.

There could be preservation issues.  But a sign could be placed on the plaza identifying the retail center and transit station.

Is it also problematic that the Terminal Tower and Tower City have different owners but are conjoined? Specifically the Public Square entrance.

But I agree the wayfinding is BAD. I don’t think a visitor would know stores, a movie theater or the rapid station lies behind those doors.

RTA should/could benefit from some classic signage.

Offline mrclifton88

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1089 on: August 10, 2018, 02:32:19 PM »
I assume K&D's ownership of the tower encompasses the lobby (Public Square entrance), the tower itself, and that would be about it?  The mall portion takes up the majority of the property.  It is amazing to me that there is NO external signage except for the brass letters outside between the Tower entrance and the Renaissance, but that is fairly small and not highly visible.  Whatever they do they have got to put up something outside to draw people in...

Offline JohnSummit

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1090 on: August 10, 2018, 09:18:41 PM »
 Tower city could be a great location for a food hall, and it fits with the “experiential” idea.  That could consume a significant chunk of space.

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1091 on: August 13, 2018, 04:56:50 PM »
I think Rock bought Tower City because it was already going to buy the Ritz Carlton, and did not want a different owner between their casino hotel and casino.  My guess is redeveloping the property is not high on their list of priorities. 

(Warning: snark) I am sure they will get to it right after building Phase II of the casino.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1092 on: August 13, 2018, 05:55:11 PM »
I think Rock bought Tower City because it was already going to buy the Ritz Carlton, and did not want a different owner between their casino hotel and casino.  My guess is redeveloping the property is not high on their list of priorities. 

(Warning: snark) I am sure they will get to it right after building Phase II of the casino.

You may be right. My employer is a free tenant of Tower City since 2014 and we've received no indication of what Rock wants to do.
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Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1093 on: September 06, 2018, 12:04:52 PM »
This is why we hear nothing but vague promised regarding the redevelopment of Tower City.

Crain's is reporting that Gilbert is looking to sell his entire casino portfolio (which is kinda hilarious giving all the effort he put into the initial ballot issue).

This clearly is not good news for TC.  Even the most optimistic forum member has to believe he will have less interest (maybe even no interest) in TC's redevelopment even though he owns many of the surrounding buildings.  Actually, the fact that he does own those buildings may be the only hope that something is eventually done but no doubt any redevelopment is not going to be vigorously  pursued, as we have already seen, dispute the occasional spokesperson propaganda.

Of course we still can looking forward to all the redevelopment of the riverfront property where the casino was suppose to go in the first place ;)

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1094 on: September 06, 2018, 12:25:33 PM »
Except Gibert's casino is a rent-paying tenant to Gilbert's properties. Selling the casino doesn't make his Cleveland properties any more/less valuable. Gilbert will continue to invest in properties that have revenues/funding that justify that investment, including the May Company building renovation.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1095 on: September 06, 2018, 12:40:15 PM »
^My guess is he sells all the Tower City assets to whoever buys the casino

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1096 on: September 06, 2018, 12:45:09 PM »
^My guess is he sells all the Tower City assets to whoever buys the casino

He might, if he gets an offer for it and he likes the numbers. I don't think that should be assumed, however.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Online Dougal

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1097 on: September 06, 2018, 01:02:57 PM »
This clearly is not good news for TC.  Even the most optimistic forum member has to believe he will have less interest (maybe even no interest) in TC's redevelopment even though he owns many of the surrounding buildings. 

Gilbert's a businessman first and it's probably a good time to sell casinos (revenues are tending down all over the country) whether or not he buys the Lions.  He may spend less time in Cleveland in days to come, but he just put a vice president in place to manage the Cleveland properties and *that* man will have an interest and will report directly to Gilbert.

I recently spent some time in Detroit and what impressed me was the way Gilbert has taken lessons-learned from Cleveland and applies them to Detroit's revival. The Hudson Block is very similar to Stark's original idea for NuCLEus. I think Gilbert will remain very interested in how his Cleveland holdings are doing, albeit without necessarily getting as personally involved.
There's nothing wrong with optimism, as long as you don't get your hopes up.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1098 on: September 06, 2018, 01:10:23 PM »
Casino revenues may drop further unless they incorporate a sports book. If a sports book locates and operates separately from a city's casino, pity the casino.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1099 on: September 06, 2018, 01:11:13 PM »
Well, according to this article Caesars is partnering with REITs, so real estate would be part of the deal

The gambling industry is in the midst of an acquisition wave, thanks in part to the emergence of casino-based real estate investment trusts that allow bidders to pay higher prices for properties.


Caesars has considered purchasing Gilbert’s casinos in combination with Vici Properties Inc., a REIT it spun off last year, according to the people. Caesars was Gilbert’s partner in the Cleveland and Cincinnati properties, which operated under the Horseshoe name until he bought out Caesars three years ago.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-05/billionaire-gilbert-is-said-to-be-looking-to-cash-out-of-casinos

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1100 on: September 07, 2018, 02:03:23 PM »
@TowerLightsCLE
90 YEARS + a day  |  September 6, 1928 and Sept. 7, 2018  |  Terminal Tower Construction on Prospect Ave.
https://twitter.com/TowerLightsCLE/status/1038114783109767168



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Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1101 on: September 10, 2018, 12:07:44 PM »
Iconic Skyscraper to Bring New Housing to Downtown Cleveland
Published by Teresa Garcia on Monday, September 10, 2018

Terminal Tower is a Cleveland icon with impressive credentials.

Work on Terminal Tower started with the second-largest excavation project after the Panama Canal and, upon completion in 1930, the 708-foot skyscraper was for decades the tallest building outside of New York. In popular culture, Terminal Tower featured prominently in the opening credits of films such as “Major League” and “A Christmas Story.” It even has its own Twitter account with more than 38,000 followers.

Terminal Tower is about to add another line to its resume: downtown housing. The building’s new owner, K&D Group, is leveraging federal and state historic tax credits (HTCs) to convert 12 of the tower’s office floors into 303 apartments, while retaining the rest as leasable office space.

MORE:
https://www.novoco.com/periodicals/articles/iconic-skyscraper-bring-new-housing-downtown-cleveland
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.


Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1103 on: September 13, 2018, 10:47:22 AM »
@mjarboe
Ken Till from @BedrockDetroit at @portofcleveland board meeting talking about May Co. renovations. Still mentions revamp planning for the Avenue at Tower City and riverfront land behind it (for those who have asked about whether possible casino sale will impact the real estate).
https://twitter.com/mjarboe/status/1040230537565298688

@mjarboe
"We're in the initial planning stages," @BedrockDetroit's Ken Till says of Tower City mall redevelopment. "I would suggest there will probably be some news in three to four months, hopefully before the end of the year," he tells @portofcleveland board members.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline TBideon

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1104 on: September 13, 2018, 11:28:31 AM »
And when were Gilbert's most recent tweets on that space again? 2013? 2014?

Call me cynical

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1105 on: September 13, 2018, 04:07:36 PM »
^Im hoping Gilbert sells everything to the Casino buyer.  Otherwise, we are in for a second rate mall and a second rate casino

Offline imjustinjk

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1106 on: September 13, 2018, 07:48:46 PM »
^Im hoping Gilbert sells everything to the Casino buyer.  Otherwise, we are in for a second rate mall and a second rate casino

I don't think we need a clothing mall in that space per se. I'd like to see a smaller format big box store like Target, which could take up a lot of space. They're about 40,000 Sq Ft compared to 150,000. An Apple store could possibly do well there. There's one in Westlake, Woodmere, and Akron? A central location could do very well to serve the 100k+ day time working population, nearby neighborhoods, and inner suburbs. The space is really challenging, especially as the retail landscape is completely changing. It also has different challenges being an urban mall compared to a suburban mall, where it can't necessarily be repurposed in to residential space or a warehouse Amazon type space. Look at what Mentor is trying to do. They put in Round 1 in the former Men's Dillards. The space has a lot of challenges, but also a lot of potential.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1107 on: September 16, 2018, 01:07:30 PM »
And when were Gilbert's most recent tweets on that space again? 2013? 2014?

Call me cynical

We need fewer cynics and more skeptics.

Cynics are convinced change is impossible. Skeptics need to be convinced change is possible.

Skeptics don't trust everything they read. Cynics don't trust anyone they meet.

Cynics are pessimists. Skeptics are realists.

https://twitter.com/AdamMGrant/status/1040949848420364289

;)
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Offline mrclifton88

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1108 on: September 16, 2018, 10:39:03 PM »
Music-pop culture store FYE to exit Tower City's Avenue


"The next big store to close at Avenue Shops at Tower City has been one of its tenants since the former train station reopened as an urban mall in 1990, the FYE music and pop culture products store."

http://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/music-pop-culture-store-fye-exit-tower-citys-avenue

Offline freefourur

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Re: Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments
« Reply #1109 on: September 17, 2018, 10:19:59 AM »
I'm not sure what the deal is with Tower City.  It seems like they should be able to get decent retailers there now. It doesn't need to be high end. I'm thinking Old Navy, H&M and the like.