Author Topic: East Cleveland: Development and News  (Read 4006 times)

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Offline PoshSteve

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #180 on: August 27, 2017, 12:43:41 PM »
^ I get the feeling that if Superior was closed off entirely going down the hill, that area would instantly become a stable, if not hot neighborhood. Sandwiched between the park and the cemetery, and adjacent to Coventry - its pretty much a perfect location in my opinion. Unfortunately its also saddled with the uncertainties of a very unstable East Cleveland. I also think this neighborhood would be one of the first to benefit from a merger of EC and Cleveland.

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #181 on: August 27, 2017, 03:06:13 PM »
^ I get the feeling that if Superior was closed off entirely going down the hill, that area would instantly become a stable, if not hot neighborhood.

My concern is the negative spillover that the blight in that neighborhood brings to the adjacent Cleveland Heights neighborhoods (Euclid Heights, Coventry Village, etc.). It's not a great situation for what could/should be some of Cleveland Heights' most stable neighborhoods. I tend to agree that, at the very least, closing off Superior would help. But I'd take it a step further and argue that dozing the whole neighborhood and making it into parkland (large-scale development there may be another option, but probably unlikely) would help the most. In fact, I was thinking about it again after posting yesterday, and I think that because Forest Hill is run by two municipalities (one of which simply does not have the resources to properly maintain it), perhaps the MetroParks would be willing to take over the East Cleveland portion or perhaps even the whole park.

Offline E Rocc

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #182 on: August 27, 2017, 03:33:43 PM »
^ I get the feeling that if Superior was closed off entirely going down the hill, that area would instantly become a stable, if not hot neighborhood.

My concern is the negative spillover that the blight in that neighborhood brings to the adjacent Cleveland Heights neighborhoods (Euclid Heights, Coventry Village, etc.). It's not a great situation for what could/should be some of Cleveland Heights' most stable neighborhoods. I tend to agree that, at the very least, closing off Superior would help. But I'd take it a step further and argue that dozing the whole neighborhood and making it into parkland (large-scale development there may be another option, but probably unlikely) would help the most. In fact, I was thinking about it again after posting yesterday, and I think that because Forest Hill is run by two municipalities (one of which simply does not have the resources to properly maintain it), perhaps the MetroParks would be willing to take over the East Cleveland portion or perhaps even the whole park.

Considering what they have accomplished at Villa Beach, I'd say that would be the best possible scenario. 

How much crime is there currently in that park?  Would that be a show stopper for MetroParks?

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #183 on: August 27, 2017, 05:02:27 PM »
How much crime is there currently in that park?  Would that be a show stopper for MetroParks?

I don't have any stats or anything, but based on anecdotes I really don't think crime is much of a problem there, at least on the CH side (which is all that I can speak to). It's a recreational hub for The City of Cleveland Heights, with baseball and softball diamonds in the park that are used on a nightly basis during summer months, and of course the Cleveland Heights Pavilion (ice rink), technically on the park property, that has tens of thousands of visitors year-round. The other part of Forest Hill Park benefits from being located within what is essentially the most stable part of East Cleveland. Remember, this is where Rockefeller made his summer home, and where the Rockefeller-inspired Forest Hill Subdivision of very attractive homes were built and still exist, going on almost a century now. The sketchier areas are to the northwest as you get closer to Euclid Avenue and of course along the southwest border where the Superior Triangle is rotting.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 05:04:22 PM by Clevelander17 »

Offline clvlndr

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #184 on: August 27, 2017, 05:59:34 PM »
^ I get the feeling that if Superior was closed off entirely going down the hill, that area would instantly become a stable, if not hot neighborhood. Sandwiched between the park and the cemetery, and adjacent to Coventry - its pretty much a perfect location in my opinion. Unfortunately its also saddled with the uncertainties of a very unstable East Cleveland. I also think this neighborhood would be one of the first to benefit from a merger of EC and Cleveland.

Closing off the EC/CH borders isn't workable and would likely/justifiably raise cries of racial segregation.

Offline E Rocc

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #185 on: August 27, 2017, 06:10:02 PM »
^ I get the feeling that if Superior was closed off entirely going down the hill, that area would instantly become a stable, if not hot neighborhood. Sandwiched between the park and the cemetery, and adjacent to Coventry - its pretty much a perfect location in my opinion. Unfortunately its also saddled with the uncertainties of a very unstable East Cleveland. I also think this neighborhood would be one of the first to benefit from a merger of EC and Cleveland.

Closing off the EC/CH borders isn't workable and would likely/justifiably raise cries of racial segregation.


Shaker Heights has done it for decades on the Cleveland border, it's not a racial divide but an economic one, and that's legal.

Offline PoshSteve

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #186 on: August 27, 2017, 06:27:36 PM »
^ I get the feeling that if Superior was closed off entirely going down the hill, that area would instantly become a stable, if not hot neighborhood. Sandwiched between the park and the cemetery, and adjacent to Coventry - its pretty much a perfect location in my opinion. Unfortunately its also saddled with the uncertainties of a very unstable East Cleveland. I also think this neighborhood would be one of the first to benefit from a merger of EC and Cleveland.

Closing off the EC/CH borders isn't workable and would likely/justifiably raise cries of racial segregation.


Shaker Heights has done it for decades on the Cleveland border, it's not a racial divide but an economic one, and that's legal.

There is also that suburb of Detroit that cut off all of their side streets with the city over the course of decades. Then recently when they tried to cut off the last remaining major artery (by turning it into a permanent farmers market) people took notice. This would be different in that its entirely within EC, and the areas on both sides are largely black and poor.

That being said, I don't ever see it happening, as its a major commuter route, and EC would have no way to provide services to the triangle afterwards. More likely is the merger with Cleveland helping to stabilize it, or EC becoming unincorporated and CH annexing the triangle.

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #187 on: August 27, 2017, 07:29:03 PM »
Closing off the EC/CH borders isn't workable and would likely/justifiably raise cries of racial segregation.

It's just one main artery that I'm suggesting would be closed off. This would be perfectly workable and part of a larger plan to expand the park to replace an area of both suburbs that is probably beyond repair. (In fact many structures in that area have already been torn down.)

In terms of racial segregation, CH is more than 50% minority, so no, as long as there are areas of Greater Cleveland that are close to 100% white, CH is immune from any ridiculous criticism some might try to lob in regards to segregation. I believe that Cleveland Heights has to seriously start examining novel ways in which to isolate itself from the spillover of its struggling neighbors. I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all. Until we have widespread regional cooperation or consolidation, it's every suburb for itself and CH leaders need to play that game as well.

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #188 on: August 27, 2017, 07:30:55 PM »
^ I get the feeling that if Superior was closed off entirely going down the hill, that area would instantly become a stable, if not hot neighborhood. Sandwiched between the park and the cemetery, and adjacent to Coventry - its pretty much a perfect location in my opinion. Unfortunately its also saddled with the uncertainties of a very unstable East Cleveland. I also think this neighborhood would be one of the first to benefit from a merger of EC and Cleveland.

Closing off the EC/CH borders isn't workable and would likely/justifiably raise cries of racial segregation.


Shaker Heights has done it for decades on the Cleveland border, it's not a racial divide but an economic one, and that's legal.

I believe Shaker justified their barriers on the basis of safety, as daily commuters used to use residential side streets to bypass busier main roads.

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #189 on: August 27, 2017, 07:36:34 PM »
That being said, I don't ever see it happening, as its a major commuter route, and EC would have no way to provide services to the triangle afterwards. More likely is the merger with Cleveland helping to stabilize it, or EC becoming unincorporated and CH annexing the triangle.

Hopefully CH will have an opportunity to annex that area in the next decade and be able to implement some larger plan for the area. Short of that, they could just turn Superior Road (and the other five roads leading north into East Cleveland) south-southeast of the East Cleveland border into a cul-de-sac.

Offline jeremyck01

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #190 on: August 27, 2017, 08:21:17 PM »
^ I get the feeling that if Superior was closed off entirely going down the hill, that area would instantly become a stable, if not hot neighborhood. Sandwiched between the park and the cemetery, and adjacent to Coventry - its pretty much a perfect location in my opinion. Unfortunately its also saddled with the uncertainties of a very unstable East Cleveland. I also think this neighborhood would be one of the first to benefit from a merger of EC and Cleveland.

Closing off the EC/CH borders isn't workable and would likely/justifiably raise cries of racial segregation.


Shaker Heights has done it for decades on the Cleveland border, it's not a racial divide but an economic one, and that's legal.

Of course it's a racial divide. Economic divides are very frequently also racial divides. To say they are not is dishonest.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 02:22:11 AM by jeremyck01 »

Offline E Rocc

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #191 on: August 27, 2017, 08:23:48 PM »
^ I get the feeling that if Superior was closed off entirely going down the hill, that area would instantly become a stable, if not hot neighborhood. Sandwiched between the park and the cemetery, and adjacent to Coventry - its pretty much a perfect location in my opinion. Unfortunately its also saddled with the uncertainties of a very unstable East Cleveland. I also think this neighborhood would be one of the first to benefit from a merger of EC and Cleveland.

Closing off the EC/CH borders isn't workable and would likely/justifiably raise cries of racial segregation.


Shaker Heights has done it for decades on the Cleveland border, it's not a racial divide but an economic one, and that's legal.

Of course it's a racial device. Economic divides are very frequently also racial divides. To say they are not is dishonest.

Correlation is not causation.   It's documented that black (Shaker) residents on those streets support the barriers.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 07:00:42 AM by E Rocc »

Offline KJP

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #192 on: August 27, 2017, 10:43:02 PM »
This has little if anything to do with planning / development.
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Offline Clevelander17

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #193 on: August 29, 2017, 06:49:24 PM »
Of course it's a racial divide. Economic divides are very frequently also racial divides. To say they are not is dishonest.

Sorry, but no, that's an intentionally misleading characterization when the neighborhood putting up the divide is also majority-minority.

The bigger picture here is that no inner-ring suburb should be criticized for instituting measures that help preserve safety and calm in the face instability in bordering communities. Particularly when thriving outer-ring suburbs have implemented barriers to access to some for decades. If Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, Lakewood, and others want to put into place policies that help keep peace in their communities but happen to limit access to others, so be it. These communities (and others like them) have already shouldered far more than their share of the burdens that come with concentrated poverty.

Offline jeremyck01

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #194 on: August 29, 2017, 07:46:53 PM »
Of course it's a racial divide. Economic divides are very frequently also racial divides. To say they are not is dishonest.

Sorry, but no, that's an intentionally misleading characterization when the neighborhood putting up the divide is also majority-minority.

The bigger picture here is that no inner-ring suburb should be criticized for instituting measures that help preserve safety and calm in the face instability in bordering communities. Particularly when thriving outer-ring suburbs have implemented barriers to access to some for decades. If Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, Lakewood, and others want to put into place policies that help keep peace in their communities but happen to limit access to others, so be it. These communities (and others like them) have already shouldered far more than their share of the burdens that come with concentrated poverty.

Sorry, but yes. I'm not surprised that you post another response that shows absolutely no understanding of the issue. It's par for the course with your posts on pretty much everything.

Offline inlovewithCLE

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #195 on: August 29, 2017, 08:49:54 PM »
Of course it's a racial divide. Economic divides are very frequently also racial divides. To say they are not is dishonest.

Sorry, but no, that's an intentionally misleading characterization when the neighborhood putting up the divide is also majority-minority.

The bigger picture here is that no inner-ring suburb should be criticized for instituting measures that help preserve safety and calm in the face instability in bordering communities. Particularly when thriving outer-ring suburbs have implemented barriers to access to some for decades. If Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, Lakewood, and others want to put into place policies that help keep peace in their communities but happen to limit access to others, so be it. These communities (and others like them) have already shouldered far more than their share of the burdens that come with concentrated poverty.

Sorry, but yes. I'm not surprised that you post another response that shows absolutely no understanding of the issue. It's par for the course with your posts on pretty much everything.

Yup

Offline jws

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #196 on: August 30, 2017, 12:12:19 PM »
I generally have a lot of objections to intentionally isolating neighborhoods. But, in regard to the triangle bordered by Coventry, Superior, and Mayfield, I don't agree with the initial assertion that it's even in that bad of shape. "Severely blighted" seems hyperbolic. It's overwhelmingly occupied and in pretty solid shape. I don't think many of the structures even require extensive work.

Street-by-street:

Luxor:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.517303,-81.5802797,3a,75y,196.42h,86.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skIHd5Mh9hJ72QNTo-7704Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Glenmont:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5161046,-81.579362,3a,75y,5.38h,91.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1somdUMWvQSrHdTSbMzwsTRw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Belmar, which is probably in the roughest shape:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5169943,-81.5781215,3a,75y,186.43h,86.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shB7n5pcCt31FUfhjBucKfg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Eddington:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5167051,-81.5769357,3a,60y,187.13h,87.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slWyIsUEgW4nxP933Y8kpIg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Hillcrest:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5162402,-81.5758299,3a,75y,190.84h,93.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slmi_eeHddk4m0LSH1OJq4w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

StreetView is two years old, but I drove down Belmar and Eddington two weeks ago and still remarked that it looked pretty alright.

If Glynn Rd, Brewster Rd, and all of those other areas of EC are doing fine (or as well as they can with EC services) then there's no reason that the above streets need to be isolated in order to "save them." Stabilizing and filling the apartments along Superior could really be the catalytic investment that this neighborhood needs.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 12:12:51 PM by jws »

Offline Mov2Ohio

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #197 on: August 30, 2017, 12:33:22 PM »
I generally have a lot of objections to intentionally isolating neighborhoods. But, in regard to the triangle bordered by Coventry, Superior, and Mayfield, I don't agree with the initial assertion that it's even in that bad of shape. "Severely blighted" seems hyperbolic. It's overwhelmingly occupied and in pretty solid shape. I don't think many of the structures even require extensive work.

Street-by-street:

Luxor:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.517303,-81.5802797,3a,75y,196.42h,86.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skIHd5Mh9hJ72QNTo-7704Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Glenmont:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5161046,-81.579362,3a,75y,5.38h,91.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1somdUMWvQSrHdTSbMzwsTRw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Belmar, which is probably in the roughest shape:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5169943,-81.5781215,3a,75y,186.43h,86.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shB7n5pcCt31FUfhjBucKfg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Eddington:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5167051,-81.5769357,3a,60y,187.13h,87.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slWyIsUEgW4nxP933Y8kpIg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Hillcrest:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5162402,-81.5758299,3a,75y,190.84h,93.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slmi_eeHddk4m0LSH1OJq4w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

StreetView is two years old, but I drove down Belmar and Eddington two weeks ago and still remarked that it looked pretty alright.

If Glynn Rd, Brewster Rd, and all of those other areas of EC are doing fine (or as well as they can with EC services) then there's no reason that the above streets need to be isolated in order to "save them." Stabilizing and filling the apartments along Superior could really be the catalytic investment that this neighborhood needs.

I tend to agree. I would say that they may be at risk of becoming blighted in the future, like 10 years or so if East Cleveland continues on its current pace of disorder.

Offline McLovin

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #198 on: August 31, 2017, 04:14:48 AM »
I was checking the landbank website and noticed that brightwood (avenue?) had about 15-20 properties "Pending transfer", anyone have insight?

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #199 on: September 02, 2017, 03:17:26 PM »
Of course it's a racial divide. Economic divides are very frequently also racial divides. To say they are not is dishonest.

Sorry, but no, that's an intentionally misleading characterization when the neighborhood putting up the divide is also majority-minority.

The bigger picture here is that no inner-ring suburb should be criticized for instituting measures that help preserve safety and calm in the face instability in bordering communities. Particularly when thriving outer-ring suburbs have implemented barriers to access to some for decades. If Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, Lakewood, and others want to put into place policies that help keep peace in their communities but happen to limit access to others, so be it. These communities (and others like them) have already shouldered far more than their share of the burdens that come with concentrated poverty.

Sorry, but yes. I'm not surprised that you post another response that shows absolutely no understanding of the issue. It's par for the course with your posts on pretty much everything.

I understand the issue very clearly. Poverty and crime have been spreading into Cleveland Heights from Cleveland and East Cleveland for at least three decades now. There is absolutely no reason why the city should sit back and allow it to continue. At some point, the burden will become too great, and the consequences for even the more stable parts of the suburb will be dire.

Offline X

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #200 on: September 02, 2017, 03:36:10 PM »
This isn't the thread for this discussion.  Development threads are for discussing actual development news, not for our own pet ideas.

Offline KJP

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Re: East Cleveland: Development and News
« Reply #201 on: August 12, 2018, 02:54:21 PM »
August 12, 2018 4:00 am
Nonprofits partner on senior-living facility
By STAN BULLARD

Land-rich legacy senior citizens service provider McGregor Foundation and affordable living provider CHN Housing Partners are teaming their talents for a $12 million senior assisted living project in East Cleveland.

The three-story, 90-unit building rising on part of the foundation's McGregor Home, a 32-acre campus at 14900 Private Drive, is designed to serve the growing population of aging people that's producing a welter of senior living projects in the region and nation.

However, there's a big difference because the name of the game here is not profit, even though the building due to open next year will provide a mix of low-income and market-rate units to make it a go. R. Robertson Hilton, McGregor Foundation president and CEO, said in an interview last week at McGregor's office at McGregor Home, "We've long been aware of the appalling shortage of senior housing, particularly for the low-income people we serve. We've spent seven years working together to produce this plan."

MORE:
http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20180812/news/171486/nonprofits-partner-senior-living-facility
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