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Author Topic: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News  (Read 3640 times)

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Offline tonyt3524

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #270 on: February 15, 2016, 05:54:18 AM »
It's been almost a year since the new streetscape was finished, and it still looks horrible because the city and/or Duke has not yet come around and removed the telephone polls and cobra head lighting:




I've been driving past short vine the last few days heading into work and it looks as if they have started taking down these telephone polls. Unfortunately I have not been able to get a good picture.

Offline neilworms

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #271 on: February 15, 2016, 08:35:24 AM »
I never understood the sheer obsession with telephone poles cluttering things up.  I like clutter, its part of an urban environment IMO.

Offline jjakucyk

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #272 on: February 15, 2016, 08:56:43 AM »
^Clutter in the sense of a variety of buildings and street furniture and such is one thing, but janky wood poles with a rat's nest of wiring jumping around all over the place?  Give me a break.  There's nothing about it that isn't ugly, and I think you'll find that your opinion is overwhelmingly in the minority.   Plus what you don't see is the tree canopy that could be there instead.  It's even worse for the people on the upper floors of those buildings, who have to look directly at the poles, wires, and transformers.  Advocating for keeping power lines is like advocating for not fixing potholes, not painting buildings, and not cleaning up litter.  It's a huge turn-off for most people. 

Yes, it is possible to do utility poles in a cleaner more tidy fashion.  They do it in Europe all the time.  It's easier there however because of their higher secondary distribution voltages compared to what we use here.  So rather than having multiple transformers and their attendant wiring on every block, they can have one larger transformer tucked away somewhere that serves several blocks at a time.  They'll then use metal poles and still do service drops underground in preparation for full undergrounding at some point in the future.  Plus none of the telecom stuff is put on the poles with all their junky repeaters, backup batteries, and other crap.  Those are more likely under the sidewalk in a small concrete vault that only requires lifting the sidewalk panels away to access.  Even with wood poles it CAN be done nicely, but it takes some craft that's lacking in the US.  https://goo.gl/maps/R3ZcBA14KmE2

Offline neilworms

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #273 on: February 15, 2016, 09:14:24 AM »
I'm also of the opinion though that the sign laws in Cincinnati are too stringent.   Take a look at this old photo of Main Street for instance, it makes Cincinnati seem so incredibly vibrant (though do ignore that the streets are torn up in that shot).:

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/c0.126.851.315/p851x315/12615414_10153929522632700_4686476657877055088_o.jpg

Not much different than this (though I guess there aren't overhead wires here):

http://s3.media.squarespace.com/production/447825/5899952/_cNMGcUju8JI/RcFsRWSx6gI/AAAAAAAAAB4/7bfJzh9N4bU/s400/sf-powell-st-1.jpg

Or Chicago (though I'll admit the wires in Chi-town are in alleyways so they are hidden, but this is still an extremely cluttered area):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/2560110816_2e923d8c53.jpg

I'm just thinking of the amount of wires you see in East Asia or in cities like San Francisco (which is still a beautiful city, but there is more clutter - bigger signs and more wires in part due to the streetcars and trolleybuses).  I actually find some beauty in it.  Cincinnati IMO really struggles to embrace its sheer urbanity and this is part of it.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 09:25:46 AM by neilworms »

Offline jjakucyk

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #274 on: February 15, 2016, 09:35:43 AM »
It's just that there's nothing inherently urban about wires.  In much of the world, it's the cities where there are no wires, because that's where the wealth and density is sufficient to cover the cost of undergrounding.  There was a big push starting in the 1920s to underground wiring for reasons of civic pride and city beautification.  There were also studies about proper street lighting and paving surfaces that came about at that same time too.  Unfortunately when the depression hit, the focus was put on streets and roads as that was easier for the government to put WPA effort into since the streets are government-owned, while the electric utilities are not.  After that, with cities being strip-mined of their resources in favor of the suburbs, any undergrounding plans or policies had to be shelved. 

As with many things, the US suburban experiment has turned our cities backwards from what you see in most of the world.  Japan's excuse is that overhead electric is more resilient to earthquakes.  The same can probably be said for San Francisco, but that certainly hasn't stopped them from burying wires.  The thing is that in Japan, Europe, and pretty much any place that has some semblance of civility, they at least hide the wires on the main streets.  Even if it's just feeding from behind in an alley, like in Chicago, that makes a huge difference.  It's tough to impress people with your neighborhood business district, the "high street" of the neighborhood if you will, when it's strewn with wires. 

Online jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #275 on: February 15, 2016, 09:45:39 AM »
Throughout college I had two people from foreign countries sublease from one of my roommates. Both of them (one from Iran, one from Germany) immediately pointed out and commented on how ugly a lot of our streetscapes were because of the overhead powerlines. They questioned the wisdom of putting them up on cheap wooden poles and the complete lack of organizational standards resulting in a mess of ugly wires directly above the sidewalks.

And I agree with them. They are ugly. The wooden poles are crappy looking, the wires don't add anything that's truly urban to our cities, and they make it impossible for street trees to mature properly since they're just cut back when they reach the wires which is shortly after being planted.

I totally understand wanting clutter, but there's a TYPE of clutter that makes sense in urban areas. And ugly powerlines/telephone lines is not the way to go about achieving that.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 10:08:33 AM by jmicha »

Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #276 on: February 15, 2016, 12:08:52 PM »
I heard a visitor from Korea remark not only about the overhead power lines in Cincinnati, but how our traffic lights dangle from wires rather than being properly mounted on an arm or something more attractive. Most of the time, even when we bury utilities, we leave the traffic lights suspended from wires.

Also, I think cobra head lighting simply does not belong in urban environments. It's fine for above highways -- not city streets.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 12:10:01 PM by taestell »

Online jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #277 on: February 15, 2016, 12:19:43 PM »
Yeah that same comment was made about traffic lights. The guy from Germany actually mentioned how uncomfortable they made him if it was at all windy out since they flop around aimlessly in a slight breeze.

Our utility infrastructure is far behind most of our peers. Peers that have significantly more urban environments than we do.

Offline jjakucyk

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #278 on: February 15, 2016, 12:38:50 PM »
Agreed about the cobraheads.  Chicago is rather striking in that regard though.  As far as the traffic signals, that used to bother me but it doesn't so much anymore.  One thing you can say about the span wire setup is that it's about as visually unobtrusive as possible.  This is especially true with typical Ohio practice (if only Duke would follow suit).  There's minimal wires and they're wrapped tightly to one another which is very clean.  At least in the city they hang all the signals and signs so their bottoms align.  This allows a bottom tether to be installed where needed (and I think it should be standard practice honestly, to keep the signals from swinging around in the wind), which was done at I-71 and Dana because of some weird quirk of the terrain that causes strong winds to twist the signals around.  https://goo.gl/maps/DM6Kko3zGT82

Compare that to Kentucky with their loose hangar wires and generally sloppy install (gross!) https://goo.gl/maps/ChXRsh6aF9y

Or Indiana and their over-engineered catenary.  https://goo.gl/maps/bDpjhZ9nNKv 

That said, mast arms and truss arms can get to be pretty massive especially at large intersections.  I don't think that's an improvement necessarily.  https://goo.gl/maps/EhcqwVToC9y
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 12:39:37 PM by jjakucyk »

Offline Ram23

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #279 on: February 15, 2016, 01:25:12 PM »
^ That Kenwood Road truss arm is massive, and likely very expensive. I can't even imagine what the moment is on that thing, or how deep that foundation pier must be.

I was recently in Taiwan and was impressed by their complete lack of signaling. Some intersections don't even have signage at all. People just drive up to them and slowly drive through them, and somehow everything works out. People are much more careful when there's nothing to provide a sense of security.

https://goo.gl/maps/4dgJdQRLRVn

Offline OCtoCincy

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #280 on: February 17, 2016, 01:27:05 PM »
I heard a visitor from Korea remark not only about the overhead power lines in Cincinnati, but how our traffic lights dangle from wires rather than being properly mounted on an arm or something more attractive. Most of the time, even when we bury utilities, we leave the traffic lights suspended from wires.

Also, I think cobra head lighting simply does not belong in urban environments. It's fine for above highways -- not city streets.

I had never seen wired hanging traffic lights until I moved to Cincinnati.  The three friends from CA that I've had visited all mentioned it almost instantly. 

Offline jjakucyk

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #281 on: February 17, 2016, 04:35:19 PM »
It all depends on where you grew up.  Span wires are the norm east of the Mississippi River (with the exception of Wisconsin and Illinois), and mast arms everywhere else, but with many installation varieties.  Cincinnati and Dayton's signal color scheme (black bodies, black visors, and yellow doors) is actually unique to southwest Ohio.  Go figure.  The move is towards mast arms in general, but they are quite a bit more expensive.  Here's a spreadsheet I got some 8 years ago (not sure where) that gives a good outline of typical state practice. 
« Last Edit: February 17, 2016, 04:36:02 PM by jjakucyk »

Online GCrites80s

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #282 on: February 17, 2016, 05:22:37 PM »
UO is turning into AARoads

Offline jjakucyk

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #283 on: February 17, 2016, 05:25:04 PM »
Nerds of the world unite! 

Offline lobanio0

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #284 on: April 14, 2016, 10:57:11 AM »
New development 75M coming to Corryville,Clifton heights,Mt. Auburn intersection:
http://m.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/04/14/75m-mixed-use-project-planned-for-uptown.html



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Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #285 on: April 14, 2016, 10:59:07 AM »
Are they tearing down Mole's Records?

Offline joshknut

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #286 on: April 14, 2016, 11:01:10 AM »
From the rendering it looks like it is all before Scioto St, so I don't think so.

Offline chinkley

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #287 on: April 14, 2016, 11:09:54 AM »
There's no way that building is within zoning height limits, is there?

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #288 on: April 14, 2016, 11:10:15 AM »
No you can see on the rendering that there is more "stuff" planned on the current gravel parking lot.  There are a few derelict homes still standing on the north side of McMillan there.  And then Mole's and the various hookah bars are there on the south side of Calhoun.  That chunk of old buildings is in real danger of disappearing and being replaced by more low-quality midrise apartments. 

Offline ink

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #289 on: April 14, 2016, 11:11:29 AM »
I like that.

Online jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #290 on: April 14, 2016, 11:23:02 AM »
I'm not holding out hope for the materials of the apartment building, but I like the site plan and the general look of the hotel.

My biggest concern with this site was always getting street frontage along both Calhoun and McMillan and this has it so I'm happy in that regard.

I also like the integration of the bus stop into the hotel entrance area.

It appears this definitely takes over that gravel lot but stops short of any of the existing historic buildings.

Also, thank god the parking is underground...

Offline jwulsin

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #291 on: April 14, 2016, 11:30:02 AM »
Very interesting. I like that they're going to to deliberately target a non-student demographic since that will add more balance to the community:

Quote
The residential space is planned to include more than 130 apartments catering to the 55 and older active adult community. Ealy said adding that segment to the area will help, especially in months when college students leave for break.
“That 55 and older group helps stabilize the community,” Ealy said.
Gateway to Uptown is planned with 17,000 square feet of street-level retail with a goal of including unique restaurants. The underground parking garage will have between 350 and 400 parking spaces.
In addition, Gateway to Uptown is planned with an event center with space for 500 people. Other amenities of the project will include rooftop spaces for residents and hotel guests with a rooftop bar that will offer views of the city.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #292 on: April 14, 2016, 11:35:57 AM »
It's possible that if the development bridges both sides of Scioto St., that they will be able to build a contiguous parking garage underneath it like The Banks. 

Online jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #293 on: April 14, 2016, 11:48:13 AM »
If I had to guess the parking garage will be accessed only from entries within the base of the hotel, will be located just far enough from McMillan to get a row of townhomes built, a la VP3, 101 East Corry, the Verge, etc. and will fill the majority of that block but stop short of Scioto. Makes the most sense from an economics and logistical standpoint.

Offline Wally

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #294 on: April 14, 2016, 12:12:59 PM »
I'm glad to see this parcel is finally being developed.  I was just driving by this property over the weekend and commented to my wife that it seemed like this site has been sitting vacant for many years (back to the early 2000s when the old Prime Time Nightclub was torn down).

Online jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #295 on: April 14, 2016, 12:14:32 PM »
I'm hoping that this scale development jumps Vine and continues between Taft and Calhoun up to Auburn. That whole block could house a ton of buildings but instead houses a bunch of parking spaces and three small suburban buildings instead.

Offline Cincinnatus

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #296 on: April 14, 2016, 12:31:49 PM »
I don't go to Uptown as often as I used to, so when I drove through recently I was blown away by how much development is occurring there. Insane!

Offline neilworms

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #297 on: April 14, 2016, 12:43:55 PM »
Quote
I'm glad to see this parcel is finally being developed.  I was just driving by this property over the weekend and commented to my wife that it seemed like this site has been sitting vacant for many years (back to the early 2000s when the old Prime Time Nightclub was torn down).

Me too, though the stuff that was around the primetime night club should have never been torn down.  I'm kind of wondering if PrimeTime was really an ugly 1970s buidling or was it a midcentury recladding of something older?

Online jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #298 on: April 14, 2016, 12:59:30 PM »
I thought I saw a picture somewhere on here that was just a big ugly blank brick box. Nothing with any sort of character or notable features.

Offline gaslight

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Re: Cincinnati: Corryville: Development and News
« Reply #299 on: April 14, 2016, 01:12:56 PM »
One more reason to get the streetcar up vine.