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Author Topic: Cleveland Heights: Development and News  (Read 906 times)

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Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #60 on: September 28, 2012, 06:14:46 PM »
Back from the dead, reincarnated......
Planned development to add 77 apartments, 15k s/f commercial space to cedar-lee

Never heard about this, such awesome news.  I really hope it gets built.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 06:16:15 PM by 327 »

Offline PoshSteve

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #61 on: September 28, 2012, 07:14:40 PM »
This is the same project we have been discussing throughout this thread.  CH has some more modern condos, but I can't think of any modern market rate apartments.  It should fit help diversify the City's housing stock nicely

That former office building at Severance, right across Mayfield from Bluestone, that was converted not too long ago is being leased as apartments now. I think the sign out front said about 1500/mt
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 07:16:02 PM by PoshSteve »

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #62 on: September 28, 2012, 10:27:15 PM »
^That conversion was not well done from what I heard.  I haven't been inside.  But this development at Lee-Meadowbrook is still unique in that it is a new build.

Never heard about this, such awesome news.  I really hope it gets built.

The one f'in time I get the scoop on a development and nobody pays attention  :whip:

1.  The residential building which was planned along with the garage at Cedar-Lee is finally seriously back on the table.  The one developer I spoke to who is looking into the City's invitation for bids thinks a mixed use building would be ideal, with retail/entertainment on ground level.  I am talking about this lot....

If I understand correctly, proposals for the Cedar-Lee lot between Tullamore and Meadowbrook are being submitted this weekend.  The one rendering I saw will make people on this board very happy...... built to street, mixed use (rental units above), balconies, penthouses, a few outdoor patios for the 1st floor tenants on each side of the building and the UO deal closer.... a skywalk to the parking garage :)

^This development is what I had been hinting at upthread, but wanted to wait until something was made more public.  The building will be something like the Avenue district, with upper-floor terraces and ground-floor patios.  The only other proposals submitted for the lot, as I understand, were for assisted/senior living because the developers wanted to get financial assistance from state/federal programs.  The City made the right choice.  The holdup was the negotiation over the tax abatement.

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #63 on: September 29, 2012, 01:07:11 AM »
Hts121, congrats on the scoop, love the new avatar and fix your quote at the bottom of your posts. There's a letter(s) missing at the start of it. Nice quote, BTW.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #64 on: November 13, 2012, 09:33:29 AM »
The Board of Ed has approved the tax abatement on the Lee/Meadowbrook project.  Apparently, Fran Mench was unable to convince them that building a new, modern apartment building with central air and indoor plumbing was going to steal tenants away from the City's other rental properties.  Now it heads to City Council for their rubber stamp
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 09:34:02 AM by Hts121 »

Offline willyboy

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #65 on: November 13, 2012, 09:47:47 AM »
Good news indeed...

Offline Foraker

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #66 on: November 13, 2012, 12:10:39 PM »
Hope it turns out well.  Fran Mench wasn't the only one protesting this project, but she did put together an interesting report of the large number of rental vacancies and housing foreclosures in the immediate area that left me with some doubts.  Let's hope that those rentals and foreclosures are only vacant because they aren't "new, modern" and lacked central air. 

If this project is successful, then it might be seen as a signal that CH needs to accelerate foreclosure demolitions so that more new, modern, and air-conditioned buildings can be built in their place.

While I can see a place for more modern housing in CH, I also would like to see more modern office space in CH to balance out all of the residential and provide a livelier daytime presence in that stretch of Lee Rd. 

Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #67 on: November 13, 2012, 12:17:23 PM »
The market for modern apartments is not the market for older apartments.  The market for houses has nothing to do with either one.  Different people want different things.

I agree about the need for offices to balance things out more.

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #68 on: November 13, 2012, 12:23:02 PM »
This project includes offices.  It is as 'mixed-use' as they come.

I am 99% confident that this project can only have a positive impact on the vacancy rates in the surrounding neighborhood.  The competition for these units will be in UC and Downtown.  There really is no comparable rental building in CH.  It will appeal to a demographic which CH struggles to retain..... that being, the younger crowd which is not ready to buy, but wants modern amenities in their units.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 12:25:41 PM by Hts121 »

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #69 on: November 13, 2012, 12:35:32 PM »
^Agree,,,I constantly here complaints from the "younger crowd" wanting to live in CH but not wanting to live in the majority older apartment stock (many people like it but it is not for everybody).  There is very little like this in Cleveland Heights and I cannot help but believe it will help the surrounding older buildings and maybe even encourage investment in them that was not previously contemplated.

Online smith

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #70 on: November 13, 2012, 12:44:17 PM »
I agree with all the sentiments on this being a different product that CH does not have.  On the office discussion, while I know the developer is marketing the first floor space as mixed office, I met them and I got the feeling that while this is how they are advertising the project, they will lease to whomever they can get.  Don't be surprised if we see a national chain restaurant use here.  Not that they indicated this, but as we all know, chains like new product.  Think 5 guys, chipotle, menchies, starbucks all going to Cedar Center North. 
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 12:45:36 PM by smith »

Offline willyboy

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #71 on: November 13, 2012, 12:46:41 PM »
^Agree,,,I constantly here complaints from the "younger crowd" wanting to live in CH but not wanting to live in the majority older apartment stock (many people like it but it is not for everybody).  There is very little like this in Cleveland Heights and I cannot help but believe it will help the surrounding older buildings and maybe even encourage investment in them that was not previously contemplated.

Indeed, especially in this area which has some wonderful old buildings, but has seen a great deal of dis-investment over the years. 

Cleveland Heights has to do whatever it needs to do to encourage reinvestment in these properties, as well as to bring different and new products to these neighborhoods.  This should help with the sense of decline in this area.   
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 12:52:00 PM by willyboy »

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #72 on: November 13, 2012, 12:53:29 PM »
^^Hmm....I think a one or two "quality" chains are not a bad thing in an area that has established independents like Lee Rd. since it could bring in a different (and bigger) crowd that might also help other independents.  The trick is to get the mix right.  My bigger concern would be splitting a stagnant pie among more dining establishments.  More restaurants will require "more people" as some of the current places seem to be struggling as it is (never see anybody in that gyro place).

Starbucks?  We will see...they already failed in a great location right next to the theater.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 12:54:22 PM by Htsguy »

Online smith

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #73 on: November 13, 2012, 12:57:55 PM »
^^Hmm....I think a one or two "quality" chains are not a bad thing in an area that has established independents like Lee Rd. since it could bring in a different (and bigger) crowd that might also help other independents.  The trick is to get the mix right.  My bigger concern would be splitting a stagnant pie among more dining establishments.  More restaurants will require "more people" as some of the current places seem to be struggling as it is (never see anybody in that gyro place).

Starbucks?  We will see...they already failed in a great location right next to the theater.

Not suggesting Starbucks, just using them as an example of a national retailer that is moving into Cedar Center North.

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #74 on: November 13, 2012, 12:59:05 PM »
^^^I would argue that the perception of the Cedar-Lee area has actually improved over the past 20 years.  Perception of CH as a whole might have declined, and we can argue until the cows come home the reasons for that perception, but this particular neighborhood is somewhat different.  What was a McDonald's 20 years ago is the best Thai restaraunt in the Greater Cleveland area.  The pubs are as lively as ever.  There is a 24 hr CVS and a full service grocery store.  The library keeps getting better.  Whitmores is no more.  The HS's security has gotten tighter and the businesses on the strip aren't having the same trouble with students that they were in the late 80's / early 90's.

^I don't know about this development fitting the model of a chain restaraunt.... if for no other reason, there won't be dedicated parking for that restaraunt.  That's what makes Cedar Center North attractive to those businesses which have a model they try to fit no matter where the proposed location is.

^^Restaraunts struggle everywhere, anytime.  The failure rate for the restaraunt business is astounding.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 01:01:23 PM by Hts121 »

Offline willyboy

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #75 on: November 13, 2012, 01:09:18 PM »
I love how the neighborhoodies are so defensive. 

Look I love this area and will support it no matter what.  But its hard for me to believe that you can seperate the perception of Cleveland Heights and this neighborhood.  The decling quality of the surrounding housing stock and buildings is why Ms. Mench thought she had such an easy argument (as far as data and numbers).  Once you lose your more stable demographic from a community and neighborhood, its extemely hard to get that back these zero growth siturations. 

Therefore you cant just ignore the corresponding effects of the shifting population.  Again this is why I STRESS the new and different product as well as the stabilization of the housing stock etc...     Otherwise why would you even be for the public subsidies for this project?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 01:11:51 PM by willyboy »

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #76 on: November 13, 2012, 01:25:35 PM »
I am not a 'neighborhoodie' (whatever that might mean).  I don't live in CH now and have never lived in the Cedar-Lee neighborhood.  If anyone constantly gets defensive, it's you with your constant 'shifting demographics' meme.  If you want to talk about cause and effect for whatever these shifts are that make you clutch your purse, I could argue that you need look no further than your own mirror.

I simply gave my opinion of the current state of Cedar-Lee, because I do frequent the neighborhood and I am well aware of where it was 20 years ago because I was there everyday back then.  Whatever utopia you think existed 20 years ago was not reality.  I wasn't being defensive at all.  That is honestly how I perceive it to be.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 01:27:24 PM by Hts121 »

Offline willyboy

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #77 on: November 13, 2012, 01:41:08 PM »
Thats good and all, but a neighborhood district is ultimately only going to be as healthy as the community it resides in. 
Ive been doing this for far too long for you to try to (predictably) paint it differently.  You are surrounded by some of the greatest and starkest examples and history of community change and corresponding consequences anywhere, so Im just not sure what you could possibly be gaining by ignoring that (does it somehow make it not so?). 

We agree on the outcome yet you still want to argue about it...  Sounds defensive to me. 
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 02:26:44 PM by willyboy »

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #78 on: November 13, 2012, 03:39:47 PM »
I'm just giving a different opinion, as usual, on your constantly repeated sentiment of the drastic decline of Cleveland Heights.  It almost seems like a reflex any and every time you make mention of the City.  Many people disagree with you and many people disagree with me.  That's why both of our perceptions are really nothing more than opinion, not fact.  People use different characteristics to judge decline.  I'm sure your career has led you to use certain formulas.  My life, especially when it comes to CH, has led me to use a different formula than you might have been taught.  Now can we get back to development?

Offline willyboy

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #79 on: November 13, 2012, 04:16:50 PM »
I actually think you may be mixing things I say up with someone else on the forum that you also seem to clash with.   
Im a huge fan of Cleveland Heights and frankly always thought it was under rated (and thought I indicated that in your great photo threads), and thus why I recently chose to purchase a property very near there due to the wonderful and historic charcteristics.  But also likely why Im so adamant about some of the decisions that are made there (since I also think that it has such wonderful potential to better capitalize on growth out of University Circle).   

Thus my perceptions are certainly based on fact and a lifetime of learning about the community as well as constant research and interviews (but I never try to push something that isnt also backed up by facts, because then it is just my opinion)   I think because its all so second nature for me at this point that I sometimes forget and assume everyone else has the same understanding.         

When people that choose to stay also choose to ignore and make excuses for certain things, then I think your only doing more harm than good.  Nobody ends up a winner in that case, no matter the size of the chip on their shoulder.       
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 04:32:10 PM by willyboy »

Offline jam40jeff

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #80 on: November 13, 2012, 08:37:41 PM »
Hts, have you been to Ty Fun?  It got a 28 Zagat rating and IMO blows away Lemon Grass.

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #81 on: November 14, 2012, 09:33:45 AM »
^I haven't.  I was basing my opinion off of some ranking I saw a few years back maybe in Cleveland Magazine?

^^Fair enough.  I just get frustrated because it seems we can never discuss DEVELOPMENT in CH on this board without the same 'shifting demographics' comments and the same BS, strawman "making excuses" schtick being tossed in.  Imagine how the mods would react if the same happened in the Tremont or OC developments thread.  I just think that discussion can be had in a different thread (City discussions?) if there is such a burning desire to do so.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 09:34:23 AM by Hts121 »

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #82 on: November 14, 2012, 12:02:04 PM »
Alright, can we get back to actual development news, folks?


Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #84 on: November 16, 2012, 07:03:34 AM »
I have a hard time being convinced that a tax abatement for this development was necessary or fair.  However I do think that news out of C-L has been very positive lately , and this project will only add to that. 

A lot can be argued about the direction the city as a whole is headed (I'm not as pessimistic as I was a year or two back), but the city's three gem retail districts all seem to be getting better (assuming something or things can come in a quickly replace Myxx in C-F).

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #85 on: November 16, 2012, 09:53:20 AM »
You can certainly argue that the abatement wasn't necessary or fair, but you the fact remains that it was a take it or leave it deal for the developer.  They weren't going to do the project without the abatement.  It wasn't icing on the cake.  It was a requirement.  When you look at the competition, you can understand why.  Each and every proposal depended on some kind of subsidy.  Personally, I would rather have a tax abatement than give the property to a different developer who was going to build something that would have HUD contingcies attached....... permanent contingencies, such as a low income component.  This was also the only proposal which envisioned a mixed use building.  So you can theorize about what might have come about in the future which failed to present ever since the Cincy developer screwed over the City, but it is hard to argue that the City had better options

Offline tradition7

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #86 on: November 16, 2012, 10:10:41 AM »
As far as the direction CH is going:  I have 2 coworkers in their mid-20's (& single) who have bought relatively cheaper homes in CH in the past 2 years.  I know they bought there because of the proximity to work, there is nightlife in the area, & it gives them the ability to "flip" the home.  I have also heard of coworkers in their 20's mention that they wouldn't buy in CH (even though they currently rent there) because the taxes are too high and the majority of the housing stock is too old (requiring additional maintenance, etc).

I think if CH can attract young home buyers who will eventually get married and have a family and stay in CH then it can remain a strong city.

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #87 on: November 16, 2012, 12:25:07 PM »
As far as the direction CH is going:  I have 2 coworkers in their mid-20's (& single) who have bought relatively cheaper homes in CH in the past 2 years.  I know they bought there because of the proximity to work, there is nightlife in the area, & it gives them the ability to "flip" the home.  I have also heard of coworkers in their 20's mention that they wouldn't buy in CH (even though they currently rent there) because the taxes are too high and the majority of the housing stock is too old (requiring additional maintenance, etc).

I think if CH can attract young home buyers who will eventually get married and have a family and stay in CH then it can remain a strong city.

Therein lies the rub and I believe this kind of goes along with a discussion being held on another thread regarding the schools in Cleveland.  Similarly, the CHUH schools have, as a far as I can tell, a less-than-stellar reputation within the region.  Many young folks either buy in this area and move when they have kids or simply avoid the city altogether because the local schools are not an option for them.  I think the district has an opportunity to fix that a bit if they were to consider some outside-the-box ideas for their upcoming reconfiguration plan (which itself will provide fodder for years to come for this thread), but I doubt they shake things up too much, which means that is one part of the CH experience I don't see improving any time soon.

Offline willyboy

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #88 on: November 16, 2012, 01:06:49 PM »
Then you probably shouldnt automatically relate it if others mention it.

I thought this was pretty good news for this strip since we have seen a series of failed attempts here, and if Doug cant pull it off nobody can:

fire's doug katz to turn historic diner cars into cafe, catering kitchen
Thursday, November 15, 2012

Doug Katz, chef-owner of the popular Fire Food and Drink at Shaker Square, has purchased the vacant diner cars on Lee Road in Cleveland Heights, planning to use them as home base for a farm-to-table deli and his growing catering operation.
 
"It's a perfect catering kitchen," says Katz of the 3,000-square-foot kitchen in the rear of the diner cars. "In one of the diner cars, I'm going to create a Fire-quality diner that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner. In the other one, I'm going to create a space people can use for a catered function."
 
Katz, who lives in Cleveland Heights, fell in love with the diners 10 years ago when one of his neighbors, Big Fun owner Steve Presser, purchased and relocated them from out of state. He later opened Dottie's Diner and Sweet City Diner. Since those closed, a string of short-lived eateries followed.
http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/devnews/leeroaddiners111512.aspx
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 01:10:38 PM by willyboy »

Offline Foraker

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Random Development News & Discussion
« Reply #89 on: November 16, 2012, 01:23:29 PM »
I thought this was pretty good news for this strip since we have seen a series of failed attempts here, and if Doug can pull it off nobody can:

Unfortunately, I will be surprised if the diners can ever be successful in their current location, a long walk north of Cedar and set back from the street. 

Cleveland Heights has been more successful in the business districts with small businesses and a walkable pedestrian feel, with lots of housing nearby, than it has in an auto-centric let's-hope-people-drive-to-our-store area like Severance.  People I know in CH talk about how they like being able to walk up the street to the bars, restaurants, and nightlife.  Driving to Home Depot in Severance is described as a hassle.  These business districts and CH's location relative to University Circle, the Clinic and downtown balance out some of the higher taxes and older housing, and I think that is why CH has been mostly successful in the past twenty years.

South Euclid isn't that far away and is definitely taking the auto-centric approach, so we'll be able to compare how each city does over the next twenty years. 

Getting back to the diners -- because they do not add to the pedestrian experience due to the set-back from the street, and the separation from the main Cedar-Lee business district, I don't think they will be able to attract enough patrons on a consistent enough basis to survive.   Here's to hoping I'm wrong about that.