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Author Topic: Cleveland Heights: Development and News  (Read 905 times)

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Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #300 on: February 28, 2017, 05:48:38 PM »
Might still be some stigmas from Coventry Street Fair riots, Brennan's murder, unbelievable taxes, and cops focusing on ticketing rather than providing security. A lack of lake and freeway access probably don't help either. Probably some ironic perception problems with crime and legitimate concerns with schools too.

Developers only have so much money to risk. I'm sure the Severance failure is well remembered.

I agree with you about the crime issues and the cops, but don't see how a lack of direct freeway access matters.  Why do people in Cleveland constantly see freeways as the lifeblood of everything?  I also don't buy CH's lack of lakefront access either.  Cleveland Heights, founded at the close of the 19th century, like Shaker Heights which was founded a decade or so later, was considered to be in the most desirable natural setting in Greater Cleveland: up on the eastern bluff overlooking the city ... the 'heights.'  The setting, especially along the Overlook, with views of downtown Cleveland and the lake, and lower CH along the Shaker Lakes, is still highly sought after with many older, $1M mansions... not sure where you're getting your information.

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #301 on: February 28, 2017, 05:51:20 PM »
^I'll take Cleveland Heights with its class and character, with its lack of direct freeway access (but with good public transit) over cookie-cutter, soulless Westlake, with it's I-90 freeway ramps, 10 out of 10 times.

Offline TBideon

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #302 on: February 28, 2017, 07:08:33 PM »
I'm saying from a developer's viewpoint, freeway access may be a factor in where they risk investments. It's probably why more east siders hang out in Ohio City and Tremont than West Siders go to Coventry or Cedar Lee.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 07:09:15 PM by TBideon »

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #303 on: March 01, 2017, 10:33:47 AM »
^On the flip side, CH has the advantage of NON-freeway access to the second largest (and probably fastest growing) employment center in the NEO region.   

Might still be some stigmas from Coventry Street Fair riots, Brennan's murder, unbelievable taxes, and cops focusing on ticketing rather than providing security. A lack of lake and freeway access probably don't help either. Probably some ironic perception problems with crime and legitimate concerns with schools too.

Developers only have so much money to risk. I'm sure the Severance failure is well remembered.

None of the above.  This lot was very close to being developed until the true abatement costs were discovered after more thorough testing.  This was the site of an old gas station.  When the developer sought further assistance of the City in fraying those costs, that's where the very vocal contingent of the community who want to maintain the green space AND who are anti-new construction found their footing and killed any prospects of a deal being worked out. 

I'm not sure what Severance has to do with this.  Severance has suffered because they tried to put a big box store roundabout in a community that prides itself on its street-front mom and pop shops.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 12:07:34 PM by Hts121 »

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #304 on: March 01, 2017, 11:04:36 AM »
I'm saying from a developer's viewpoint, freeway access may be a factor in where they risk investments. It's probably why more east siders hang out in Ohio City and Tremont than West Siders go to Coventry or Cedar Lee.

I frequent Ohio City quite a bit, but usually use the Rapid...buses from PS occasionally (to Hingetown infrequently)... I tend to drive to Tremont but did use the 81 and the old Community Circulator a couple times (I used to always get lost in Tremont when driving -- GPS is a Godsend)... But I never use the freeway to get there. Always use the Lorain-Carnegie bridge or hop over from Ohio City.

Btw, some of the biggest high-end apartment building in greater Cleveland has been in University Circle and yet there is no freeway access there (and no, I don't count the inbuilt Opportunity Corridor).
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 11:05:42 AM by clvlndr »

Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #305 on: March 01, 2017, 11:39:20 AM »
Anecdotal of course, but freeway access is the overwhelming complaint I hear from people who 1) move out of CH or 2) won't go to an event there.

Offline down4cle

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #306 on: March 01, 2017, 11:41:17 AM »
^ not only lack of freeway access but limited transit access to CH as well.  IMHO

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #307 on: March 01, 2017, 12:06:15 PM »
Anecdotal of course, but freeway access is the overwhelming complaint I hear from people who 1) move out of CH or 2) won't go to an event there.

Funny.  That is exactly what I find so appealing about Cleveland Hts.  (as well as Shaker and University Heights).  Too each his own.

Offline willyboy

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #308 on: March 01, 2017, 12:12:07 PM »
Anecdotal of course, but freeway access is the overwhelming complaint I hear from people who 1) move out of CH or 2) won't go to an event there.

Funny.  That is exactly what I find so appealing about Cleveland Hts.  (as well as Shaker and University Heights).  Too each his own.
\

Doesn't it all depend on where you are going or coming from?  Otherwise for me, I totally agree with you on this as I love living in an area that isn't fragmented or otherwise desecrated by an overbuilt freeway system, as if it is difficult to get around otherwise...  Heck, I can easily walk to the rapid whenever I want to!   

Offline Foraker

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #309 on: March 01, 2017, 01:54:42 PM »
None of the above.  This lot was very close to being developed until the true abatement costs were discovered after more thorough testing.  This was the site of an old gas station.  When the developer sought further assistance of the City in fraying those costs, that's where the very vocal contingent of the community who want to maintain the green space AND who are anti-new construction found their footing and killed any prospects of a deal being worked out. 

While that may be true, I also heard that a cable company has an easement that crosses diagonally across part of the property and they wouldn't allow construction over it.  The developer offered to put the cable into a culvert that would protect the cable and allow for future expansion but that was a non-starter.  The cable company (AT&T I think) wanted $100,000 to move the cable to where it followed the street grid. 

Enough little straws eventually break the camel's back.

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #310 on: March 01, 2017, 03:55:18 PM »
^ not only lack of freeway access but limited transit access to CH as well.  IMHO

I find Cleveland Heights to be pretty well served by transit.  Even though the city doesn't have rail transit within its borders, it is flanked by rail to the west and south... I've known of many people in the southern part of CH who walk to Green Line rail stations just south of CH's southern border in Shaker.  Also some people in the Cedar-Fairmount and Coventry neighborhoods walk down the hill (and sometimes up it) to Red Line stations at Cedar Glen and, now, Little Italy, respectively... In addition, (relatively) frequent feeder bus lines also serve these stations.  And for those who'd rather drive, CH residents can, and do, drive and park along South Park Blvd in Shaker adjacent to the Green Line station there (where there are no, no-parking signs).  It's usually 5 (no more than 10) minute drive.

To those who choose to move out of Cleveland Heights due to a lack of freeways?  It's a free country.  These people, ultimately, are probably not the kind of folks who CH wants anyway as they are less likely to appreciate the unique charms that makes this old suburb attractive and special.

Offline jam40jeff

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #311 on: March 01, 2017, 04:03:01 PM »
To those who choose to move out of Cleveland Heights due to a lack of freeways?  It's a free country.  These people, ultimately, are probably not the kind of folks who CH wants anyway as they are less likely to appreciate the unique charms that makes this old suburb attractive and special.

I don't get this argument.  In CH, you can get to I-271 in <15 min from most parts, I-90 east or west in <15 min via MLK, and downtown in <15 via Carnegie, where you can pick up I-90, I-71, or I-77.  So even when you do need a freeway (which isn't often because many places are nearby), it isn't that awfully hard to get to one.  I know people who complain about the lack of freeway access and then move to an exurb 40 miles from the city in a development 10-15 minutes from the freeway (the ONLY freeway, which they then need to take for many miles to get anywhere of interest).  It's a nonsensical argument.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 04:04:21 PM by jam40jeff »

Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #312 on: March 01, 2017, 04:28:07 PM »
To those who choose to move out of Cleveland Heights due to a lack of freeways?  It's a free country.  These people, ultimately, are probably not the kind of folks who CH wants anyway as they are less likely to appreciate the unique charms that makes this old suburb attractive and special.

I don't get this argument.  In CH, you can get to I-271 in <15 min from most parts, I-90 east or west in <15 min via MLK, and downtown in <15 via Carnegie, where you can pick up I-90, I-71, or I-77.  So even when you do need a freeway (which isn't often because many places are nearby), it isn't that awfully hard to get to one.  I know people who complain about the lack of freeway access and then move to an exurb 40 miles from the city in a development 10-15 minutes from the freeway (the ONLY freeway, which they then need to take for many miles to get anywhere of interest).  It's a nonsensical argument.

What about Lakewood?  Not exactly an exurb.  My brother works in Solon and still made that move.  To this day he comments on how much easier it is to get around. 

A friend of mine in Cleveland Heights just visited another friend in West Park and it took him 40 minutes each way.  The uber bill was quite large.  FWIW the Opportunity Corridor is going to bring these two friends closer together.  Both of them live in urban neighborhoods and both of their neighborhoods benefit from additional connectivity with each other.  I daresay the OC might even help get something built at Lee and Silsby.  Speculation, obviously.  But increased access and connectivity are not likely to hurt that parcel or any other in Cleveland Heights.

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #313 on: March 01, 2017, 04:29:31 PM »
^^The E152 and E185 entrances to the Shoreway are about 10 mins from where I grew up in CH
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 04:30:34 PM by Hts121 »

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #314 on: March 01, 2017, 05:17:13 PM »

What about Lakewood?  Not exactly an exurb.  My brother works in Solon and still made that move.  To this day he comments on how much easier it is to get around. 

A friend of mine in Cleveland Heights just visited another friend in West Park and it took him 40 minutes each way.  The uber bill was quite large.  FWIW the Opportunity Corridor is going to bring these two friends closer together.  Both of them live in urban neighborhoods and both of their neighborhoods benefit from additional connectivity with each other.  I daresay the OC might even help get something built at Lee and Silsby.  Speculation, obviously.  But increased access and connectivity are not likely to hurt that parcel or any other in Cleveland Heights.

I seriously doubt the OC will have any positive influence on the development of any multi-unit residential project in a walkable community like Cedar-Lee (Lee and Silsby).

Offline Motorist

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #315 on: March 02, 2017, 09:08:37 AM »
To those who choose to move out of Cleveland Heights due to a lack of freeways?  It's a free country.  These people, ultimately, are probably not the kind of folks who CH wants anyway as they are less likely to appreciate the unique charms that makes this old suburb attractive and special.

I don't get this argument.  In CH, you can get to I-271 in <15 min from most parts, I-90 east or west in <15 min via MLK, and downtown in <15 via Carnegie, where you can pick up I-90, I-71, or I-77.  So even when you do need a freeway (which isn't often because many places are nearby), it isn't that awfully hard to get to one.  I know people who complain about the lack of freeway access and then move to an exurb 40 miles from the city in a development 10-15 minutes from the freeway (the ONLY freeway, which they then need to take for many miles to get anywhere of interest).  It's a nonsensical argument.

What about Lakewood?  Not exactly an exurb.  My brother works in Solon and still made that move.  To this day he comments on how much easier it is to get around. 

A friend of mine in Cleveland Heights just visited another friend in West Park and it took him 40 minutes each way.  The uber bill was quite large.  FWIW the Opportunity Corridor is going to bring these two friends closer together.  Both of them live in urban neighborhoods and both of their neighborhoods benefit from additional connectivity with each other.  I daresay the OC might even help get something built at Lee and Silsby.  Speculation, obviously.  But increased access and connectivity are not likely to hurt that parcel or any other in Cleveland Heights.

I don't think the OC is going to have the impact to his travel time that you may think.  It may take his drive from 40 minutes to 38.  I regularly drive down Woodland to get to E 55th and it takes almost no time as it is.  I think the OC is going to have absolutely zero impact on the Cedar Lee district.   

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #316 on: March 02, 2017, 12:23:19 PM »
OK, folks, let's get back to actual development news.

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #317 on: March 03, 2017, 10:33:36 PM »
^^The E152 and E185 entrances to the Shoreway are about 10 mins from where I grew up in CH

Get real.

Offline mam178

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #318 on: May 11, 2017, 07:36:49 PM »
http://www.clevelandheights.com/index.aspx?page=47&recordid=1130&returnURL=%2findex.aspx

So sad for Top of the Hill...reminds me of the Meadowbrook site.

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #319 on: May 12, 2017, 09:46:31 AM »
^Well this is a real bummer

Offline Vince_908

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #320 on: May 12, 2017, 09:52:11 AM »
Meadowbrook and Top of the Hill are still great development sites, despite the setbacks.

Offline mam178

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #321 on: May 12, 2017, 11:37:29 AM »
Meadowbrook and Top of the Hill are still great development sites, despite the setbacks.

Of course, but they are city owned and you have to work with Cleveland Heights. This is a huge red flag to developers who have to spend a bunch of time and money up front before a project even breaks ground.

Offline David

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #322 on: May 12, 2017, 07:51:06 PM »
Surprisingly, I've never noticed this thread until now and I have 9 pages to catch up on. So far, I don't see anything mentioned about it but I was wondering what's up with the giant empty lot between Meadowbrook and Tullamore.  What was there? What are the plans for it? I've lived in the area for a year and a half and they've barely done anything with it... It really does seem feasible to build an apartment building with first floor retail. The only reason businesses die on this section of Lee is due to bad management. This area is insanely popular for folks in Heights, Shaker and University Hts. They don't like to go downtown or anywhere far away and they like supporting the community. I think a lot of people here would be excited about the idea of new residential construction in this area. What's the scoop on this giant plot on Lee Rd?

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #323 on: May 12, 2017, 07:56:57 PM »
^really have to read the thread.  Way too much history.

Offline David

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #324 on: May 12, 2017, 07:59:28 PM »
^really have to read the thread.  Way too much history.

I feel a headache coming on...

Offline David

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #325 on: May 12, 2017, 08:31:58 PM »
^I'll take Cleveland Heights with its class and character, with its lack of direct freeway access (but with good public transit) over cookie-cutter, soulless Westlake, with it's I-90 freeway ramps, 10 out of 10 times.

Where did you get this idea that CH has good public transit? There's no way you could say that if you've actually taken public transit over here, recently. Public transit in Cleveland Heights sucks. It takes forever to get around on a bus. For starters, you can't even get downtown without transferring. If I take a bus downtown to meet up with my girlfriend and drive back with her, I have to pay twice when transferring just to go in the same direction because there's no direct route to that area. RTA is such a scam. It's either a bus and a train or taking two buses to achieve that goal. It's obnoxious; I don't feel I live that far away from downtown. From what I was told, a lot of bus routes no longer exist, like one that went down Fairmount. There's others that I've heard legends of but can't remember where they were. I think S. Taylor had a bus as well. The one that goes along Cedar Rd. only runs once an hour, even during peak hours. It literally doesn't matter what time of day or which day it's running - it just comes once an hour. Same with the one that goes down Lee and Mayfield. The Mayfield Rd. bus might actually be worse. Is that considered frequent service in Cleveland? No one seems to have a problem with that sort of frequency even though I can imagine people spending half of their day waiting for busses, to run certain errands.  Maybe even catching hypothermia at the bus stop, in the winter. A similar street to Cedar Rd. in Columbus would have buses running every 20 minutes. Highway accessibility is also bad but imo that's a big problem for a lot of Cleveland.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 08:50:32 PM by David »

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #326 on: May 12, 2017, 09:13:40 PM »
Good topic that's worth discussing in the RTA thread....

https://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,4504.msg853839.html#msg853839
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Online smith

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #327 on: May 13, 2017, 10:10:43 AM »
Meadowbrook and Top of the Hill are still great development sites, despite the setbacks.

Of course, but they are city owned and you have to work with Cleveland Heights. This is a huge red flag to developers who have to spend a bunch of time and money up front before a project even breaks ground.

Disappointed about Top of the Hill to be sure.  I'm interested to hear what exactly the issue was. 

Lee/Meadowbrook is a different animal.  With that location, I can see that it would be difficult to get the rents that would justify the cost of construction, but I would have thought Cedar/Fairmount could justify it. 

(oh and I know it's a topic for RTA thread, but CH is served well by rail ("well" being relative to Cleveland))
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 10:11:49 AM by smith »

Offline Clevelander17

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Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland Heights: Development and News
« Reply #329 on: May 13, 2017, 09:30:59 PM »
Good to hear this. I was about to complain about so much parking but it's about right. The Flaherty & Collins plan has:

250+ apartments (250 parking spaces)
30,000 square feet of retail/restaurants (300 spaces)
20,000 square feet of offices (100 spaces)
110-room Element hotel (100 spaces)
-------
750 garage-parking spaces

« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 09:31:36 PM by KJP »
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.