Author Topic: Peak Education  (Read 10477 times)

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Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #600 on: November 10, 2017, 01:32:50 PM »
I couldn't do the skilled trades since I am way too scared of heights. Being a machinist or working on cars are about it if you want to stay on the ground and not get immediately pointed toward scaffolding -- and my folks wouldn't let me go into auto repair.

Offline westerninterloper

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #601 on: November 10, 2017, 01:49:39 PM »
I couldn't do the skilled trades since I am way too scared of heights. Being a machinist or working on cars are about it if you want to stay on the ground and not get immediately pointed toward scaffolding -- and my folks wouldn't let me go into auto repair.

I spent half the day yesterday using an industrial sander on my friends' wood floors, and I havent felt that kind of immediate satisfaction in years. Academic work is a lot of delayed, then minimal gratification. 

Offline Brutus_buckeye

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #602 on: November 10, 2017, 05:04:00 PM »
Skilled trades is a very good profession. There are plumbers, welders and electricians that earn consistently more per year and over their lifetime than many masters degree candidates including teachers, college administrative staff and even tenured PHD professors. The big drawback to many of these positions is that they are labor intensive and can take a toll on the body as you age. In addition, you often do not have the flexibility you would otherwise have in other white collar professions

Offline E Rocc

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #603 on: November 12, 2017, 10:58:08 PM »
Doing away with shared dorm rooms for single person rooms was certainly a big expense for schools that they pretty much had to do. Today's students can't fathom all those rules from the '60s about when boys and girls can see each other. They're not going to be put into a situation where they can't have their stupid boyfriend sleep over every single night.

Those rules were gone at Case during the very early 80s, on the south side we had suites of six small singles with common restrooms/showers and a living area.  At least two of my suitemates basically had their girlfriends living with them.  I think they might have cared if both women didn't officially live on campus, but otherwise they didn't.   So this is nothing new.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #604 on: November 13, 2017, 11:20:30 PM »
Yale's new dorms are pretty incredible.  They just opened but they look like they're from 1750.  This report is pretty interesting because the guy in charge makes the point that students are assigned randomly to the freshman "colleges" (the different dorm clusters).  You can't overstate how important the dorm experience is.  All teaching at all levels is split between the instructor and the students themselves.  Maybe not for a typical 100-level lecture class in an auditorium but is definitely the case for any sort of class with group projects and certainly anything in the arts. 





It's my general observation that people who went away for college and lived in the dorms -- even for people who didn't finish a degree program -- benefited greatly from it.  The experience of getting away from the home town and getting a totally new group of friends from all over the place is something you can't do later.  People who joined the military had a similar experience. 

If you're away from the family, you are free to become a different person, and you can put on the act that you're the same person for those occasional trips back to the home town.  If you never leave, there are all sorts of soft forces that keep you from being able to change. 


Offline E Rocc

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #605 on: November 13, 2017, 11:38:59 PM »
It's my general observation that people who went away for college and lived in the dorms -- even for people who didn't finish a degree program -- benefited greatly from it.  The experience of getting away from the home town and getting a totally new group of friends from all over the place is something you can't do later.  People who joined the military had a similar experience. 

Not neccesarily.  I started out living at Case, switched over to commuting after three semesters.  My GPA was a full point higher when I was commuting.  Mostly it was the "food" literally making me sick, but that wasn't all of it.  It's not for everybody.

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #606 on: November 14, 2017, 10:25:29 AM »


It's my general observation that people who went away for college and lived in the dorms -- even for people who didn't finish a degree program -- benefited greatly from it.  The experience of getting away from the home town and getting a totally new group of friends from all over the place is something you can't do later.  People who joined the military had a similar experience. 






But then you have to go to their weddings for the rest of your life

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #607 on: November 14, 2017, 01:00:34 PM »
But then you have to go to their weddings for the rest of your life

Yes, unfortunately more than one wedding per dude.   Interesting how some guys who were groomsmen in the first wedding weren't even invited to the second wedding. 
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 11:29:38 PM by jmecklenborg »

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #608 on: January 02, 2018, 11:30:25 PM »
People who thought they were in a public service loan forgiveness program...weren't:
http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/02/pf/college/public-service-loan-forgiveness-lawsuits/index.html

Offline eastvillagedon

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #609 on: April 15, 2018, 01:12:31 PM »
I think I actually had teachers who fell into this category. Okay, that was Painesville :(. lol

‘I was a teacher for 17 years, but I couldn’t read or write’

http://www.bbc.com/news/stories-43700153

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #610 on: May 16, 2018, 02:58:45 PM »
Linked in this article is a factoid claiming that only 11% of economic mobility can be attributed to access to education:
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/05/whats-really-behind-economic-mobility/560360/

The article asserts that where we live matters more than our education.  Well, duh.  That's always been the case ever since mechanization of farming made family farms uncompetitive and the kids were free to move to the city like never before. 

The other well duh is the marriage thing.  And obviously men who do not have college degrees and no family are less likely to marry women who have both than vice-verse. 

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #611 on: May 16, 2018, 03:19:17 PM »
If I had a nearing-college age kid right now I would ban them from all quaint little schools in jobless small towns. I don't have the money to subsidize them until age 35 when they could have gone to a school in a city and have a job lined up before graduation due to the vastly superior networking available in cities.

Offline Gramarye

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #612 on: May 16, 2018, 04:51:21 PM »
Depends on what the kid wants to do and where they're likely to get their terminal degree.  I'll guess most graduates of Kenyon College--a quaint little school in a jobless small town near an even larger jobless small town (Mt. Vernon)--are doing fine.  Many of them probably went on to graduate school in larger markets, and of course, many also come from backgrounds that gave them access to networks of their own.  If my own children wanted to go to Kenyon, or even a slightly less prestigious small-town small school like Denison (both of which were on my own short list), I'd at least let them proceed as far as getting through the scholarship hunt before we got down to brass tacks.

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #613 on: May 16, 2018, 05:11:15 PM »
My network is pretty much all public sectors, blue-collar guys and professional musicians. I own a small business.

Offline 327

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #614 on: May 16, 2018, 06:28:03 PM »
Kenyon and Denison are off the radar for most people.  Even with scholarships you can end up with serious debt.  I grew up near Denison and parents' weekend would fill the town with exotic sports cars.  These schools serve as backups for coastal blueblood kids who can't get into anything fancy back home.

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #615 on: May 16, 2018, 06:35:16 PM »
^Yeah, don't even go to the tiny school in the big city. The Columbus job scene doesn't pay attention to anything in town besides OSU and Columbus State.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #616 on: May 16, 2018, 06:46:36 PM »
^Yeah, don't even go to the tiny school in the big city. The Columbus job scene doesn't pay attention to anything in town besides OSU and Columbus State.

Mt. Ida college in Boston just went out of business.  There is a prediction that A LOT of these small schools are going to hit the skids in the next 10-20 years.  But some of them are sitting on absolutely ridiculous endowments so they'll stick it out. 

Offline taestell

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #617 on: May 16, 2018, 09:55:37 PM »
So Purdue University bought Kaplan University. That seems...very unusual...but I guess it might be easier for a public university to buy a for-profit university and integrate it, rather than build out similar programs on their own.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #618 on: May 16, 2018, 11:18:24 PM »
So Purdue University bought Kaplan University. That seems...very unusual...but I guess it might be easier for a public university to buy a for-profit university and integrate it, rather than build out similar programs on their own.

My mom just took an "extension" class in gardening from her state's university.  I suppose that universities have always had continuing education classes, but I sense that the non-profits have picked up a few of the for-profit dirty tricks.  Get local hobbyists to pay to become adjuncts, then way-overcharge for the exact classes these hobbyists were previously teaching for free at the YMCA or wherever. 

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #619 on: May 17, 2018, 12:52:34 AM »
Wait, adjuncts are paying to teach rather than just being paid like crap?

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #620 on: May 17, 2018, 01:11:56 AM »
Wait, adjuncts are paying to teach rather than just being paid like crap?

I am suspicious that this is going on for these sorts of continuing education classes -- an adjunct has to take a class to become and adjunct (beyond simply earning an advanced degree).  I did not have to do this when I was an adjunct.  I did, however, get paid crap with no benefits. 

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #621 on: May 17, 2018, 01:19:47 AM »
Strangely, the people I know who have taught these types of classes are real estate developers who have made millions rather than starving artists. They did it more for the PR than anything. This doesn't mean I knew them well enough for them to offer me a job.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #622 on: June 14, 2018, 12:19:54 AM »
2.5 million Americans owe over $100k in student loans:

Offline Gramarye

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #623 on: June 14, 2018, 09:46:45 AM »
More importantly, a lot of those with $100k+ in student loans aren't doctors or lawyers or investment bankers.

I really wish I had a way to short private student loans.  It would be an openly political investment because the only thing that sustains those loans is the federal guaranty.  And that might well be less than politically invincible.

Offline freefourur

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #624 on: June 14, 2018, 09:51:36 AM »
I think people tend to focus on the borrowing aspect which is important. But a major part of the problem is the cost of education is increasing faster than inflation making education out of reach for some. 

Offline mu2010

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #625 on: June 14, 2018, 10:29:53 AM »
The increases are largely due to an arms race among colleges for the newest and fanciest facilities. It's a tremendous waste of resources and the cost of it all is being passed on to 18 year olds in the form of debt that will take 15 years to pay off.

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #626 on: June 14, 2018, 10:32:50 AM »
Networking should be the only thing non-STEM (and some STEM) students should be thinking about when selecting a school in 2018. Double Olympic pools and retro gaming lounges don't get you a job.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #627 on: June 14, 2018, 10:41:55 AM »
The increases are largely due to an arms race among colleges for the newest and fanciest facilities. It's a tremendous waste of resources and the cost of it all is being passed on to 18 year olds in the form of debt that will take 15 years to pay off.

In smaller countries like France and England there are maybe 20~ major universities and their relative "rank" has been known for many years.  But in the United States, with 200+ major colleges and universities, and hundreds of smaller places, they offer innumerable competing programs. 

Also, the payoff period for loans I believe is 20+ years, not 15.  I am still paying on a $4,000 loan from academic year 1996-97.  The interest rate was originally 5.5% but has been 1.9% since a 2005 refinance, which is why I've been taking my sweet time paying it off.  The balance is probably under $1,000 at this point. 

Offline Gramarye

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #628 on: June 14, 2018, 10:46:46 AM »
I think 20 is fairly standard now.  Mine are all 20 year loans, so they'll be paid off when I'm 45.  The difference between mine and most loans (even government loans) today is that mine have a blended interest rate around 2.1%.  My most expensive one is 3.5%.  I was lucky to go to law school during the credit bubble when loans flowed like lemonade at a picnic.  (Or beer at a frat party, perhaps a more apt metaphor.)

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Peak Education
« Reply #629 on: June 14, 2018, 10:47:26 AM »
And schools here can change in "rank" over something as outlandish as a Sweet Sixteen appearance.