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Author Topic: Cleveland: Ohio City: Development and News  (Read 12089 times)

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Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #120 on: November 21, 2005, 03:24:50 PM »
Yes, the Market Square Building, but it didn't burn "down" exactly...just burned "out."  Still, it appears that there may be a chance to rebuild it.

And where/when did you hear this about Marous and CMHA?  That's something that hasn't been mentioned here before.  Are you sure this isn't outdated?

I did hear from a neighborhood merchant that Marous is interested in developing the parcels north of the WS Market, where the Market Square Building and Orange Blossom Press sit, but I don't know how much merit this source has!

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #121 on: November 21, 2005, 03:26:13 PM »
We're looking into here at Sun. Will advise.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline JT

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #122 on: November 22, 2005, 06:23:49 AM »
The Market Square building is right across from Fries & Schuele. MGD is correct, it was gutted not burned down. Concerning the CMHA project, I have a contact at CMHA and they told me that Telesis & Marous have met and had several phone conversations and have come to an agreement. Although who really knows what will happen by the time they finally get everything sorted out.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #123 on: November 22, 2005, 07:54:07 AM »
true, these plans have changed immensely from day one...but if they're still talking about building on West 25th, that's news to me...and good news at that!  I think this was one of the most important things about the first set of plans...filling the huge gaps along West 25th.  Looking forward to hearing more!

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #124 on: November 22, 2005, 08:07:05 AM »
MGD,

I agree.  We need to continue to develop a critical mass on 25th to support retail and enhance street life. Hopefully, the Jay Hotel project will move forward soon. 

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #125 on: November 22, 2005, 08:46:12 AM »
Yes, I'm curious there how much the developer is seeking to work with...is he just doing the Jay Hotel and the adjacent vacant lot?  Is he trying to get the warehouses between Jay and Bridge? (that's what I heard)  Is he trying to get the buildings fronting West 25th as well (Near West Woodworks, etc)?  Anxiously awaiting more news on this one as well!

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #126 on: November 22, 2005, 10:06:26 AM »
The Jay Hotel project has been silent for a while now.  The last thing that I saw was a mention of it in the developer's spring newsletter.  I emailed Heartland, but they never responded.

Offline blinker12

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #127 on: November 22, 2005, 12:47:49 PM »
I spoke to someone in the City Planning office about the Jay Hotel in September. He said the developer was trying to acquire some of the property around the hotel before going ahead with the project. There are some very ugly steel sheds right behind the hotel (the warehouses MGD refers to), and a parking lot immediately to the west -- I'm assuming this is the stuff Heartland is trying to get.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2005, 01:01:29 PM by blinker12 »

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #128 on: November 22, 2005, 01:32:40 PM »
That would be my basic assumption too.  It would be a much more substantial and impactful project if it incorporated a West 25th Street frontage, but I'm not sure how I feel about displacing those businesses, or how much more complicated this would make the project.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #129 on: November 29, 2005, 10:59:16 AM »
The following is a handy article from the December Plain Press, available online at www.nhlink.net/plainpress.  This is the best wrap-up of that last Riverview meeting that I've read to date.  There's even a little bit at the end that I hadn't heard yet...

Riverview HOPE VI update
by Chuck Hoven

At a November 17th meeting at Riverview Towers at 1791 W. 25th Street, Cuyahoga Metropolitan Housing Authority (CMHA) officials and representatives of Ohio City Near West Development Corporation (OCNW) and Telesis Corporation offered an update on the Riverview HOPE VI proposal to the federal Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) to build 384 units of new mixed income housing in the Ohio City neighborhood. While little new information was offered at the meeting, the small crowd of a little over twenty people allowed officials to answer questions about the project.

CMHA officials noted that they met a September 30th deadline to submit a revised proposal to HUD requesting an extension on the original grant and identifying new sites for the proposed development. They said the revised proposal received approval of HUD with some conditions. HUD has not yet revealed what conditions they will require.

The revised proposal requests additional funds for land acquisition (not in the original proposal) and identifies new sites for the housing. The original site for the new housing, CMHA property behind the Riverview Towers, was deemed too unstable to build upon.

Four new sites were selected on which to build the 384 units of new housing. Eighty-one of those units will be replacement public housing units for residents displaced when their homes were demolished to make way for the project. The new sites put forth in the proposal are: W. 28th and Detroit Avenue (56 units); W. 28th and Church Avenue (74 units); W. 41st and Lorain Avenue (12 units); and Regional Transit Authority land that lies between W. 25th, Lorain Avenue and Columbus Road (242 units).

OCNW Executive Director Joe Mazzola said OCNW and Telesis Corporation are committed to pursuing additional sites to lower the density of the housing proposed for the RTA site,  in response to concerns of residents in the Duck Island neighborhood.

A CMHA official explained that tenants in the 81 public housing units will only pay 30% of their income for rent and utilities as other public housing tenants do. Telesis Corporation will manage the rental units for the first 15 years, at which time the contract could either be renewed or revert back to CMHA for management services. The units are protected as public housing under CMHA ownership.

CMHA Executive Director George Phillips said that, while CMHA would like to build more than 81 public housing units as part of the project, they have received only $8.5 million to build public housing, enough to build only 81 units. Asked whether HOPE VI dollars could have been used to acquire scattered site housing and substantially rehab it (instead of building new housing), Phillips said, “it is theoretically possible, but I don’t know that it would have received funding from HUD.”

When asked why all of the housing units were being built in the Ohio City neighborhood rather than spread out over a number of neighborhoods, Phillips said the major reason was to fulfill commitments made to former residents of the Riverview estates. “We promised they could come back to this neighborhood,” Phillips said.

CMHA and Telesis Corporation officials also said that some creative mortgages could make some of the 303 new for-sale housing units more affordable. Income restrictions tied to the mortgage could be transferable with the property when it is sold making the units more affordable even upon resale.

A Jay Avenue resident expressed concern that the new project offered little in the way of commercial development and green space as proposed in the original HOPE VI proposal made with input from the community. Mazzola said he believes that the new housing on W. 28 by Detroit and at W. 41st and Lorain will help spur development.

Mazzola explained a proposal by OCNW to create an Ohio City Safety Special Improvement District. He said such a district would be entirely dependent upon property owners in the district agreeing to pay an extra tax to pay for extra security.

Mazzola said OCNW’s board has proposed that the original site behind the Riverview Towers be made into a public park and that it be connected to the Ohio and Erie Canal Towpath Trail as a trailhead. CMHA Executive Director Phillips “that is something we would seriously look at and consider.”

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #130 on: November 29, 2005, 11:02:25 AM »
I think an Ohio City SID would be excellent and that West 25th is the logical place to do it.  It could spread down Detroit and Lorain as well. 

The park idea is one that just seems like common sense and has been mentioned here before.  One drawback, though, is that we would likely be losing all development potential for the future by committing this site to public use as a park.

I'm still curious about the West 25th Street frontages of the CMHA property and others north of Jay that still haven't really entered into the conversation yet...at least, not the conversation that I've witnessed.

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #131 on: November 29, 2005, 11:25:17 AM »
MGD shoots and he scores!   (some interesting articles today)

Offline blinker12

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #132 on: November 29, 2005, 02:09:07 PM »
I'm still curious about the West 25th Street frontages of the CMHA property and others north of Jay that still haven't really entered into the conversation yet...at least, not the conversation that I've witnessed.

Exactly which frontages are you talking about? As we've already discussed, the property on the east side of W. 25th north of Riverview Tower isn't in the conversation because that land has been deemed unstable. There apparently is some potential for redeveloping stuff on the west side, but that would presumably be infill because some occupied commercial buildings survive there.

I'm not against turning the east side properties into a park. That would allow everyone to enjoy the spectacular views of downtown -- and it would get rid of those god-awful low-rise buildings.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #133 on: November 29, 2005, 02:25:49 PM »
The most specific frontage I'm talking about is the actual CMHA property along the east side of West 25th that touches the sidewalk.  This is the space just north of the existing towers and south of Franklin Ave. that goes downhill east of the site.  I figure that if they say the hillside is stable enough for two towers to remain there, then they should probably be able to build something considerably smaller just north of them that abuts the sidewalk.  However, if they're concerned about future development prospects or if it's not stable enough even for that or if they just want the whole thing to be a park, then this option is out. 

The other frontages I'm referring to would be all the parking lots on the west side of the street and perhaps moving north to the Transitional Housing property, which CMHA does not currently own.  I doubt this property is contained in the area that they are considering for a park.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #134 on: February 08, 2006, 09:41:35 AM »
Just a little tidbit from Heartland Developers latest newsletter:



Doesn't look like Near West Woodworks gets to stick around...nor do a couple small buildings next to it.  I haven't heard a word about this from anyone but the Heartland website and I'm assuming that no one has heard back from them...what's the deal?

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #135 on: February 08, 2006, 09:57:11 AM »
MGD,

Did you get a print version of that newsletter?  The website has last spring's version.  I had emailed them when I saw that newsletter last May and never received a response.

Offline blinker12

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #136 on: February 08, 2006, 11:54:44 AM »
So that's an old rendering? I was starting to get hopeful that they'd actually start work this spring!
Either way, thanks for posting MGD.

Offline urbanlife

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #137 on: February 08, 2006, 12:22:04 PM »
something is updated as the newsletter posted says "staring in Spring 2005" and lists 170K as the starting price.  the new graphic has the 2006 start date and a start price under 200k. 

also, newsletter calls them the "Post Office" and this is now calling them the "Lofts".

who knows how serious they are though besides the minor updates.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2006, 12:23:03 PM by urbanlife »

Offline YSOH

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #138 on: February 08, 2006, 12:42:01 PM »
I just called the number on that listing and they're sending me more info.  The lady said that it is going ahead this spring, but she thinks the first phase is just the Jay Hotel (she called it the Post Office building).  She mentioned they're creating a courtyard behind the Jay Hotel and building townhomes behind that on 26th through to Bridge.  She didn't know about the Woodworks building.  I guess I'll have a sales associate calling me soon, so I'll let you know if I learn anything new!

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #139 on: February 08, 2006, 12:46:35 PM »
MGD, There's been articles in the West Side Sun by David Plata and Crain's Stan Bullard about the project. I haven't followed the project too closely, however.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline mrnyc

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #140 on: February 08, 2006, 12:55:44 PM »
wow that really looks good. i hope it actually happens.

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #141 on: February 08, 2006, 01:20:58 PM »
This project would further cement this area as strong place for a real estate investment.  I hope it moves along quickly.  I also wish that they had broken ground earlier as I am looking to buy this spring.

Any word on how other places are doing in Ohio City? I drove by the Ohio City townhomes the other day and noticed that there were only 2 for-sale signs still up.  A few of the other units looked empty, but did not have a for-sale sign in front of them.  The most expensive unit (corner) looks like it has a tenant.  Furthermore, it appears that renovations are beginning on the grand old home that is just to the east of the project (this is part of the deveoper's plan).  There has been no movement on the Japanese units.  Outside of this little area, the rest of OC's new stuff seems to be in the W.40s or beyond.  Any word on how that is moving?


Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #142 on: February 08, 2006, 01:25:07 PM »
Well, the OC townhome site says that only 2 units have sold.

Offline theguv

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #143 on: February 09, 2006, 10:31:59 AM »
the developers bought the corner and end units.

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #144 on: February 09, 2006, 11:36:13 AM »
So, they haven't legitimately sold anything yet?

Offline theguv

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #145 on: February 09, 2006, 12:22:22 PM »
in my humble opinion, the asking prices are way too high for the neighborhood.  i believe they recently lowered the starting prices to the mid $400,000's

i'd guess they are prepared to wait it out?

Offline urbanlife

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #146 on: February 09, 2006, 12:58:45 PM »
it seems that price points are high for many of the developments.  it is more of a catch 22 - younger people will live downtown or in a gentrifying neighborhood in OC, but may not be able to afford 400k + and older people who can afford these homes don't want to deal with the schools, etc.  and are established in the suburbs. 

IMO, there needs to be more units online that range from 150-250k, even if that means no granite, hardwood, etc. 

Income/yr   Income/mnth   after 28% tax
 $50,000.00     $4,166.67     $3,000.00
 $60,000.00     $5,000.00     $3,600.00
 $70,000.00     $5,833.33     $4,200.00
 $80,000.00     $6,666.67     $4,800.00
 $90,000.00     $7,500.00     $5,400.00
 $100,000.00     $8,333.33     $6,000.00
 $110,000.00     $9,166.67     $6,600.00
 $120,000.00     $10,000.00     $7,200.00
 $130,000.00     $10,833.33     $7,800.00
 $140,000.00     $11,666.67     $8,400.00
 $150,000.00     $12,500.00     $9,000.00
 $160,000.00     $13,333.33     $9,600.00
 $170,000.00     $14,166.67     $10,200.00
 $180,000.00     $15,000.00     $10,800.00
 $190,000.00     $15,833.33     $11,400.00
 $200,000.00     $16,666.67     $12,000.00

Assuming 10% down, 30 year fixed, 5.5%:


Home Price   Downpayment   Interest Rate   Pymt/Mnth   Pymnt/yr
 $200,000.00     $20,000.00    5.50%   $1,022.02    $12,264.24
 $250,000.00     $25,000.00    5.50%   $1,277.53    $15,330.30
 $300,000.00     $30,000.00    5.50%   $1,533.03    $18,396.36
 $350,000.00     $35,000.00    5.50%   $1,788.54    $21,462.42
 $400,000.00     $40,000.00    5.50%   $2,044.04    $24,528.48
 $450,000.00     $45,000.00    5.50%   $2,299.55    $27,594.55
 $500,000.00     $50,000.00    5.50%   $2,555.05    $30,660.61
 $550,000.00     $55,000.00    5.50%   $2,810.56    $33,726.67
 $600,000.00     $60,000.00    5.50%   $3,066.06    $36,792.73
 $650,000.00     $65,000.00    5.50%   $3,321.57    $39,858.79
 $700,000.00     $70,000.00    5.50%   $3,577.07    $42,924.85
 $750,000.00     $75,000.00    5.50%   $3,832.58    $45,990.91
 $800,000.00     $80,000.00    5.50%   $4,088.08    $49,056.97
 $850,000.00     $85,000.00    5.50%   $4,343.59    $52,123.03
 $900,000.00     $90,000.00    5.50%   $4,599.09    $55,189.09
 $950,000.00     $95,000.00    5.50%   $4,854.60    $58,255.15

Offline WoollyBear

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #147 on: February 09, 2006, 01:07:10 PM »
^
Thanks for posting that. I remember hearing that a rule of thumb when buying a house is 2.5 times your annual salary. If the starting prices are say $450K, that would mean that people would have to have a annual household income of $180K. Thats a lot of money.

Offline MayDay

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #148 on: February 09, 2006, 01:34:21 PM »
"a rule of thumb when buying a house is 2.5 times your annual salary."

That's what I've heard as well - still, I'm looking at a condo that's maybe 1.1 times my annual salary.  :oops:

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Ohio City & Market District Developments
« Reply #149 on: February 09, 2006, 01:36:05 PM »
I absolutely agree.  The price points are unrealistic for a lot of these developments.  I like to see that the Jay Hotel is going to start around $200,000.  Hopefully it will contain  a lot of $200,000 units and not just 3 or 4 with the rest going for over $300,000.  A lot more people would buy if units cost $200,000.  The Fries & Schuele building sold its 200,000 very quickly.