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Author Topic: Cleveland: Downtown: Mall Development and News  (Read 902 times)

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Offline MyTwoSense

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #120 on: June 30, 2010, 01:48:35 PM »
For those that are saying these peopleare not to be thinking about the design of this,

"Their role is really to focus on appropriate design and look at funding opportunities, but not by going to the city or the county," said Ken Silliman, the mayor's chief of staff.

There isn't a single person on this panel that has any credentials or experience in organizing the design, planning, and implementation of a large urban space.  I really expect nothing from this panel.

I interpret this to mean the group will be instrumental in finding an urban designer or work in conjunction with those that have experience in urban building design.
 
Are we getting to caught up in the minutia, and not looking at the bigger picture?

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #121 on: June 30, 2010, 01:49:47 PM »
I have only B&W photocopies of Civic Vision 2000, and then only of the areas north of Lakeside and a little bit of the Warehouse District.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline McCleveland

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #122 on: June 30, 2010, 01:58:37 PM »
the article also specifically mentions breaking down into four groups, only one of which will focus on "design" of the malls, the other groups focus on financing, community participation, and governance (i.e. programming and maintenance).  This really isn't much different than the public square task force that produced work from FO.  I think it is a safe bet that outside of some "brainstorming sessions" about what they would like to see out of these spaces and how they would function... not much differently than if 10 or 15 of us got together... that is the only real "design work" this comission will do, at some point a firm will be brought in for that.

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #123 on: June 30, 2010, 01:59:08 PM »
^^Yes

Offline McCleveland

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #124 on: June 30, 2010, 01:59:18 PM »
Are we getting to caught up in the minutia, and not looking at the bigger picture?

yes.

Online StapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #125 on: June 30, 2010, 02:00:47 PM »
Well I still can't find my big full color guy, which annoys me to no end after all the times I've had to fit it into a box of books over the years as part of my nomadic existence.  But I did find some pictures of it on UrbanOhio!  http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=13775.0

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #126 on: June 30, 2010, 04:16:54 PM »
By the way...who is going to the first meeting and reporting back....I don't trust the PD to be accurate.

Offline MuRrAy HiLL

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #127 on: July 12, 2010, 08:58:48 AM »
From Litt:

A new Group Plan Commission for Cleveland has a chance to revise Daniel Burnham's historic vision for downtown
Published: Monday, July 12, 2010, 9:45 AM 
   Steven Litt, The Plain Dealer


CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Chicago architect Daniel Burnham left a colossal imprint on Cleveland more than a century ago with his 1903 Group Plan for downtown.

Now, in 2010, Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson is asking a new Group Plan Commission to revisit the grand but sterile mall and the zone around it. The area has never lived up to Burnham's original vision, in part because the train station ended up in the Terminal Tower complex.

Inspired by more than $1 billion in new downtown projects on the horizon, including a casino, medical mart and convention center, Jackson sees an opportunity to improve a large swath of downtown, from Public Square to the Lake Erie waterfront, including the mall.

The question is whether the new commission, which meets for the first time Thursday at 7:30 a.m. in Room 514 at Cleveland City Hall, can rise to the occasion or whether it caves to pressures that have led to mediocre planning and civic design in the city's recent past.

http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2010/07/group_plan.html

« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 09:00:18 AM by MuRrAy HiLL »

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #128 on: July 12, 2010, 10:55:59 AM »
Good column. I usually like Litt's stuff.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline StrangeBrew

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #129 on: August 05, 2010, 09:54:36 PM »
I'm not sure if this comment should be in the CC/MM thread or the Mall discussion, but question: after checking out the revised plans at http://bocc.cuyahogacounty.us/pdf_bocc/en-US/CCMM-08052010-Update.pdf, it occurred to me that while a raised view of the lake is a great idea, will the designers also include an improved pedestrian bridge linking Mall C to the lakefront?  Does anyone know if this be part of LMN's plans or the landscape architect/New Block Group Committee? 

Offline ccars

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #130 on: August 06, 2010, 08:18:40 AM »
^ I think that's the plan of the intermodal transportation center where the Amtrak station is located now.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/06/intermodal_transportation_cent.html

Offline MuRrAy HiLL

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #131 on: August 06, 2010, 08:22:37 AM »
^ I think that's the plan of the intermodal transportation center where the Amtrak station is located now.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/06/intermodal_transportation_cent.html

Not if GOP candidate John Kasich gets elected Governor :(....:

"I don't support a 39 mph train, OK? It's not going to happen if I'm governor, OK?" Kasich said. "If you want the train, I hope you can get over that and vote for me anyway. But you're not going to get that train."

 http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/08/john_kasich_yvette_mcgee_brown.html

Unless we build it just for Cleveland...
« Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 08:22:59 AM by MuRrAy HiLL »

Offline ccars

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #132 on: August 06, 2010, 08:26:44 AM »
I think the intermodal center is the result of a federal funds grant that's separate from the 3C rail project. RTA already gave about $300k to the city for planning. Of course, to these people that's a thimble's worth of cash for all the planning and talking that's going to happen for the next millennium.

I for one hope (and think) that steam will pick up on this project if the Medical Mart construction gets underway (and they say groundbreaking might happen by Oct/Nov.)

Online StapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #133 on: August 06, 2010, 08:34:00 AM »
^I think MH's point is that the reason d'etre for an intermodal center sort of evaporates if you take away one of the modes.

Fun thought that occurred to me this morning: a sloped lawn on Mall B could make a great wintertime sledding ground for the kids.  Coupled with a skating rink at the south end of Mall B and some wintery concessions, could be a bad/ass off season family attraction.

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #134 on: August 06, 2010, 08:39:07 AM »
Strap, send that idea to Parkworks!

Offline RyanScav

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #135 on: August 06, 2010, 01:42:22 PM »
strap... nice! punch +1

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #136 on: August 06, 2010, 01:55:11 PM »
^I think MH's point is that the reason d'etre for an intermodal center sort of evaporates if you take away one of the modes.

Fun thought that occurred to me this morning: a sloped lawn on Mall B could make a great wintertime sledding ground for the kids.  Coupled with a skating rink at the south end of Mall B and some wintery concessions, could be a bad/ass off season family attraction.

There is still Amtrak passenger rail service to/from that location, and there's several plans for restructuring and expanding train service to Cleveland. So even if 3C doesn't happen for a while (it will be impossible for Ohio to remain an isolated black hole forever), there are still other near-term opportunities.

And, yes, I was also thinking that sledding would be awesome there.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline jhonopolis

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #137 on: August 07, 2010, 08:55:41 AM »
look at that bridge


Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #138 on: August 19, 2010, 02:15:20 PM »

This is a big city and "impressions" on the street is what marketers are looking for and area's around convetion centers are key locations. 
 

Cleveland isn't a big city anymore. But even big cities have such linkages: Toronto, Seattle, Minneapolis, Atlanta, Montreal, Chicago and even some city on the Hudson....

http://theweblicist.com/wordpress/category/landmarks-buildings-statues-and-monuments/west-avenue-pedestrian-walkway/
« Last Edit: August 19, 2010, 02:18:38 PM by KJP »
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline MyTwoSense

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #139 on: August 19, 2010, 03:16:19 PM »
KJP now you're playing the semnatics game to fit what you like.
 
I dont believe they are necessary.  Now that bridge we see picture for the worlds fair.  I can dig that.
 
But underground linkages, goes against us fighting for more usefull street level retail.  Why have it if we're going to send people from place to place underground?
 
 

Offline Avogadro

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #140 on: August 19, 2010, 03:31:04 PM »
^ If one were to make a beeline from an intermodal station to Terminal Tower, where would one encounter street-level retail? Certainly not around the Mall (surrounded by government buildings and the MedMart/Public Auditorium).

Offline MyTwoSense

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #141 on: August 19, 2010, 03:49:07 PM »
Thats not the point.  The issues is people by passing any current (yes I knwo it's not much) and any future retail.
 
Yes I know we have rain, sleet, snow and heat.  Every other city has varying degrees of weather as well.
 
To me it's just an excuse to build something that isn't needed and that has to be maintained.

Offline jhonopolis

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #142 on: August 19, 2010, 03:55:37 PM »
Can't they just make the rapid station connect to mall C, that will let people take the train straight into tower city and they dont even have to walk. And it would be cheaper then building a tunnel.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #143 on: August 19, 2010, 05:03:47 PM »

To me it's just an excuse to build something that isn't needed and that has to be maintained.

I'm not proposing that anything be built this isn't going to be built already (or at least is being considered for construction). I'm proposing that the corridors and other interior spaces within the convention center be designed to allow direct public access around-the-clock so people to may travel from hotel, to convention facilities, to intermodal station, to North Coast Harbor attractions or any combination of these.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline MyTwoSense

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #144 on: August 20, 2010, 11:19:47 AM »

To me it's just an excuse to build something that isn't needed and that has to be maintained.

I'm not proposing that anything be built this isn't going to be built already (or at least is being considered for construction). I'm proposing that the corridors and other interior spaces within the convention center be designed to allow direct public access around-the-clock so people to may travel from hotel, to convention facilities, to intermodal station, to North Coast Harbor attractions or any combination of these.

Oh....thanks for clearing that up my friend!   ;)

Online StapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #145 on: September 22, 2010, 04:30:41 PM »
Well this is torture: Cleveland.com has a new article about the Mall design, but the link is broken...

Millennium Park-like designs not in the plans for downtown mall
http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2010/09/millennium_park-like_designs_not_in_the_plans_for_downtown_mall.html

Hoping it works soon...

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #146 on: September 22, 2010, 04:49:50 PM »
how did you hear about it strap?

Online StapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #147 on: September 22, 2010, 05:23:10 PM »
^Weird... there was a headline and little photo on the main Cleveland.com page and the link I posted above, but now they're gone.  Maybe it was posted before being finished or something.  We'll see if it pops up later.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 05:54:00 PM by StrapHanger »

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #148 on: September 22, 2010, 05:36:03 PM »
Maybe the author was upset because there was no plans for a large stainless steel bean (aka Cloudgate)

or (conspiracy theory) the publisher, who is on the new group plan commission saw it and pulled it.

With the same landscape architect as Millennium park, I think it is going to be hard not to have similarities

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Mall projects and programming
« Reply #149 on: September 22, 2010, 08:28:54 PM »
Here's the reality:

-there is not enough money in the budget to do anything significant with the Malls in the convention center budget. The contract with MMPI states that the Malls must be similar in nature to the current design. This has been know for a long time.

-the landscape architecture firm is developing a Plan B. It is basically a "if you had a lot more money, you could do this with the Malls"

-the Group Plan Commission is figuring out how to come up with the money to fund Plan B (as well as Public Square, land bridges to the lake, etc)

This sounds like a non-story by the PD.