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Author Topic: Cleveland: Jack Cleveland Casino - Phase I  (Read 12140 times)

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Offline MyTwoSense

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2130 on: January 27, 2012, 12:24:00 PM »
This is pretty worrisome for the projects.  I hope everyone is okay...I don't understand why this keeps happening if they're doing everything by the book.

HOW??  Please share your worries.  It's construction, casualties are built in and to be prepared for.

Offline Firenze98

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2131 on: January 27, 2012, 12:47:53 PM »
This is pretty worrisome for the projects.  I hope everyone is okay...I don't understand why this keeps happening if they're doing everything by the book.

HOW??  Please share your worries.  It's construction, casualties are built in and to be prepared for.

Huh?  Casualties are NOT built in and prepared for.  So you think every contractor comes on a job and figures..."well there is probably going to be an accident or death.....that's to be expected"?? 

Please state your source for making that statement
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 12:15:49 PM by Firenze98 »

Offline MyTwoSense

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2132 on: January 27, 2012, 12:49:32 PM »
This is pretty worrisome for the projects.  I hope everyone is okay...I don't understand why this keeps happening if they're doing everything by the book.

HOW??  Please share your worries.  It's construction, casualties are built in and to be prepared for.

Huh?  Casualties and NOT built in and prepared for.  So you thinking every contractor comes on a job and figures..."well there is probably going to be an accident or death.....that's to be expected"?? 

Please state your source for making that statement


Yes they are.  Construction sites need to be prepared for casualties.  They can happen at any time.  I'm not strictly speaking about the loss of life, but any emergency issue that may arise.

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2133 on: January 27, 2012, 12:54:31 PM »
That is not how construction works.  Every plan has to be approved, and safety of the workers is the most pressing issue. 
It may be due to local laws, but most likely due to insurance rates companies have to pay.

Safety score of a contractor is probably the main driver for construction projects.
If someone gets hurt on a job in 2012, construction, manufacturing, whatever, something went wrong.  It is not typical or to be expected.

Offline MyTwoSense

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2134 on: January 27, 2012, 12:57:16 PM »
That is not how construction works.  Every plan has to be approved, and safety of the workers is the most pressing issue. 
It may be due to local laws, but most likely due to insurance rates companies have to pay.

Safety score of a contractor is probably the main driver for construction projects.
If someone gets hurt on a job in 2012, construction, manufacturing, whatever, something went wrong.  It is not typical or to be expected.

I'm not in construction, but I find it very hard to believe that there is no expectation or contingency in place for issues like the parking deck collapse.

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2135 on: January 27, 2012, 02:22:05 PM »
That is not how construction works.  Every plan has to be approved, and safety of the workers is the most pressing issue. 
It may be due to local laws, but most likely due to insurance rates companies have to pay.

Safety score of a contractor is probably the main driver for construction projects.
If someone gets hurt on a job in 2012, construction, manufacturing, whatever, something went wrong.  It is not typical or to be expected.

I'm not in construction, but I find it very hard to believe that there is no expectation or contingency in place for issues like the parking deck collapse.

Contingency or preparation?  Sure.  But expectation?  I don't know.  But in regards to my concerns, that has to do with the fact that this is the second incident in just a few months for Rock Gaming.  It could be a coincidence.  It certainly could be...

Offline Hootenany

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2136 on: January 27, 2012, 02:37:01 PM »
Are the construction companies in Cleveland and Cincinnati the same?  Same architects?  Same construction engineers?  Something just seems to be wrong with the setup for the pours in Cleveland and Cincinnati.  Accidents like this happen I'm sure, but I can't remember ever hearing of a floor collapse during a concrete pour on a major construction project.  Anyone have a feel for how common a failure this is in the construction industry?

Offline tedders55

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2137 on: January 27, 2012, 03:05:11 PM »
Are the construction companies in Cleveland and Cincinnati the same?  Same architects?  Same construction engineers?  Something just seems to be wrong with the setup for the pours in Cleveland and Cincinnati.  Accidents like this happen I'm sure, but I can't remember ever hearing of a floor collapse during a concrete pour on a major construction project.  Anyone have a feel for how common a failure this is in the construction industry?

Doesn't sound like it was the same company; Cleveland Cement was used up here, while Messer Construction is cited in the recent article in Cincy.  Still could have been Cleveland Cement and Messer was acting as a General Contractor though.  However, it does just feel fishy.

Offline NapsFan

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2138 on: January 28, 2012, 06:46:47 PM »
Apparently there is no curse, just shoddy construction.

No one needs to root for the casinos to fail--they're doing it on their own.

Offline TBideon

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2139 on: January 28, 2012, 08:13:38 PM »
That's silly and insensitive.

Offline NapsFan

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2140 on: January 28, 2012, 10:35:33 PM »
You're probably right, but do not use my post to discount the fact that this is the second major incident of the process of building casinos in the state. Same company, same problem. Once is an accident, twice is a problem--and don't pass this off to subcontractors. Rock Gaming should need to win back your confidence at this point. If this is the way they build, what else are they playing fast and loose with?

Offline MyTwoSense

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2141 on: January 29, 2012, 02:30:47 AM »
You're probably right, but do not use my post to discount the fact that this is the second major incident of the process of building casinos in the state. Same company, same problem. Once is an accident, twice is a problem--and don't pass this off to subcontractors. Rock Gaming should need to win back your confidence at this point. If this is the way they build, what else are they playing fast and loose with?
Ridiculous!  The self defeating attitude appears again!

Offline archangel

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2142 on: January 29, 2012, 08:14:15 AM »
You're probably right, but do not use my post to discount the fact that this is the second major incident of the process of building casinos in the state. Same company, same problem. Once is an accident, twice is a problem--and don't pass this off to subcontractors. Rock Gaming should need to win back your confidence at this point. If this is the way they build, what else are they playing fast and loose with?
Ridiculous!  The self defeating attitude appears again!

Ridiculous? I don't think it's about an 'attitude' when it happens twice. It's financial liability, delay, and doubt. Two concrete pour mishaps that could have killed people are inexcusable, period. I wrote off the parking garage thing as a freak accident, but having a portion of the actual casino collapse in Cinci is far worse and raises some serious questions.

If you want some optimism, at least it happened now, and not after opening. Plus, Cleveland's is now the safest of all of them (because it's a good existing building :P) - but who knows what additional delays might be incurred as a result of these mishaps?

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2143 on: January 29, 2012, 08:42:30 AM »
Let's all wait until the investigation is complete.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2144 on: January 29, 2012, 09:02:02 AM »
When it happens twice, there is need to ask questions. To borrow on an Oscar Wilde quote: "To lose one floor to collapse may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose two looks like carelessness."
"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who writes the laws." -- Mayer Amschel Rothschild, founder of the European banking dynasty.

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2145 on: January 29, 2012, 09:56:26 AM »
I suppose the first and most pertinent question is whether the two projects are using general contractors or construction managers, and whether the same companies are overseeing both sites.  If they are using different general contractors at both sites, then probably nothing more can be made out of this than a bad coincidence.  But if the general contractor is the same or if Rock Gaming is using construction managers and not general contractors on each site, then there might be something there that will make some of the save lower prospect folks downright giddy.

The following article is confusing because it would read as if a general contractor is being used in Cleveland while another company is "managing" the Cincy construction.  Of course, that could just be because the press doesn't really understand the difference (at least how those terms are commonly used in NEO). http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/01/work_at_cincinnatis_horseshoe.html
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 09:57:24 AM by Hts121 »

Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2146 on: January 31, 2012, 02:22:31 PM »
Wow... that casino looks waaaaay different then it did when I drove by a few days ago. :D

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2147 on: January 31, 2012, 06:34:33 PM »
How so?  ;)

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2148 on: February 08, 2012, 09:21:19 AM »
Gilbert's Billionaire Hot Wheels set is getting more vertical. This was the view this morning on my walk to the office. I should have shot it from the north side of Prospect to get more of the Welcome Center, but this angle shows the Higbee's building in the background (center-right) where the phase-one casino will open.

"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who writes the laws." -- Mayer Amschel Rothschild, founder of the European banking dynasty.

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2149 on: February 08, 2012, 09:36:25 AM »
I know I am beating a dead horse, but when ever I see the term "welcome center" in association with this project I just want to offer the correct phrase which is "valet parking waiting area".

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2150 on: February 08, 2012, 09:43:22 AM »
I know I am beating a dead horse, but when ever I see the term "welcome center" in association with this project I just want to offer the correct phrase which is "valet parking waiting area".

"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who writes the laws." -- Mayer Amschel Rothschild, founder of the European banking dynasty.

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2151 on: February 08, 2012, 03:33:46 PM »
Hand me a bat because it is a pretty ridiculous name for a garage. 
What will they call the overhead walkway, the self propelled horizontal ferris wheel?

Offline Clevecane

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2152 on: February 08, 2012, 10:14:44 PM »
^^ KJP, where do you find this stuff?!?!!?!?!  Back on topic though with this!

http://www.cleveland.com/dining/index.ssf/2012/02/horseshoe_casino_cleveland_inc.html

Corky's at the Casino!!!!!    :clap: :clap: :clap:  Three claps from Cleveland's Jewish community.  I can't wait to stop here on my way to class (or on way home?)  Much more conducive to us RTA kids than Slyman's.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2153 on: February 08, 2012, 10:26:24 PM »
^^ KJP, where do you find this stuff?!?!!?!?!  Back on topic though with this!

Well, there's this really cool search engine called Google. It's even better than NorthernLights! ;)

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"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who writes the laws." -- Mayer Amschel Rothschild, founder of the European banking dynasty.

Offline Firenze98

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2154 on: February 09, 2012, 09:55:32 AM »
It would be nice if the Higbee building could get a nice bath before it opens, with maybe a Prosoco product or something.  With all the new lighting to go on the building, you'd hate for that to highlight the 80+ years of soot and grime.  However I would say unlikely since the opening is slated for this year and that is probably something Forest City would have to pay for.

Offline Niko

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2155 on: February 09, 2012, 11:28:25 AM »
^I believe it was cleaned within the past few years, but I hear you its getting bad again.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2156 on: February 09, 2012, 08:18:51 PM »
Yes, it's been cleaned. It could use some spit and a brush again.
"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who writes the laws." -- Mayer Amschel Rothschild, founder of the European banking dynasty.

Offline urbanlife

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2157 on: February 14, 2012, 11:13:19 AM »
they have some of the exterior lights installed on prospect ave.  they have been on the last couple of weeks - not sure if it is a test or the actual lights they plan to use.

Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2158 on: February 15, 2012, 10:48:15 AM »
The Ohio Casino Control Commission has stated the Horseshoe Casino will open May 14

Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Horseshoe Casino
« Reply #2159 on: February 15, 2012, 10:58:17 AM »
And Cleveland.com with the confirmation (as if my word weren't good enough)



Cleveland's casino will be first to open in Ohio, on May 14

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2012/02/cleveland_casino_will_open_fir.html