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Author Topic: Cincinnati Streetcar / Cincinnati Bell Connector News  (Read 105533 times)

ryanlammi, GCrites80s, CincyIntheKnow, cincydave8, StapHanger, jim uber, mcmicken (+ 1 Hidden) and 29 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Quimbob

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19380 on: February 06, 2013, 06:42:16 AM »
I could have sworn I read a quote by Mann that says he is not opposed.
This might just be pandering to both sides - he's been in politics a while.

One of the most hotly debated issues in Cincinnati has been the city’s planned $128 million, 3.8-mile streetcar line, which might be expanded if the first phase proves successful.
“The voters have twice given it the go-ahead and I respect that. I wouldn’t change it at this point,” Mann said. “But it’s something that should be carefully looked at every step of the way.”

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/local_news/After-long-absence-David-Mann-seeks-return-to-Cincinnati-City-Council

Offline Jimmy_James

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19381 on: February 06, 2013, 02:06:27 PM »
I frankly don't know what Cranley's ax to grind is. As I understand it he is a candidate for Mayor of Cincinnati and vows he will stop the streetcar no matter where it is.

It's possible that he's just taking the "other side" of this issue.  Qualls is a staunch streetcar supporter, and is probably the favorite.  The streetcar, while having passed 2 votes, is still relatively unpopular, since the votes were close.  And for the people who don't like the project, it seems to be their #1 issue, regardless of facts, reason, or common sense.  So, by making himself the anti-streetcar mayoral candidate, he automatically becomes Qualls' biggest competition.  That, plus a little luck, could be enough for him to sneak into office.  I certainly hope that doesn't happen, but it's his best chance against someone like Qualls who is vastly more qualified.


Offline natininja

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19382 on: February 06, 2013, 02:13:09 PM »
And for the people a vocal minority who don't like the project, it seems to be their #1 issue, regardless of facts, reason, or common sense.

FTFY.

This is the flaw in Cranley's strategy. If it were true, we wouldn't have a streetcar-supporting supermajority on council. It might be a media darling, and some people certainly are rabidly opposed to it, but the opposition is overblown.

Offline Jimmy_James

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19383 on: February 06, 2013, 04:22:43 PM »
^49% of voters chose yes on Issue 48 in 2011.  That's close enough for me to be worried about the support he'll get with an anti-streetcar stance.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 04:23:02 PM by Jimmy_James »

Offline natininja

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19384 on: February 06, 2013, 05:08:17 PM »
My point is 49% of voters did not refuse to vote for pro-streetcar council and mayoral candidates. It's not the #1 issue for those voters.

Offline kjbrill

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19385 on: February 06, 2013, 05:08:33 PM »
^49% of voters chose yes on Issue 48 in 2011.  That's close enough for me to be worried about the support he'll get with an anti-streetcar stance.

If that is enough to put Cranley in there with his stop the streetcar stance, I feel very bad about Cincinnati. Let's have both a failed subway and a failed streetcar. The citizens may have to speak up for the third time, and I hope they speak loud and clear.

Offline natininja

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19386 on: February 06, 2013, 05:12:13 PM »
^49% of voters chose yes on Issue 48 in 2011.  That's close enough for me to be worried about the support he'll get with an anti-streetcar stance.

If that is enough to put Cranley in there with his stop the streetcar stance, I feel very bad about Cincinnati. Let's have both a failed subway and a failed streetcar. The citizens may have to speak up for the third time, and I hope they speak loud and clear.

I'm not really worried about it. The only thing slightly disturbing is the campaign funding situation.

Offline Jimmy_James

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19387 on: February 06, 2013, 06:31:27 PM »
I sincerely hope you're right.

Online jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19388 on: February 06, 2013, 11:18:45 PM »
http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region_central_cincinnati/downtown/horseshoe-casino-cincinnati-plans-complimentary-shuttle-service-with-partner-hotels

Watch for streetcar opponents to start citing whatever this casino shuttle is going to be as a reason why private businesses are good and publicly supported streetcars are bad.

Offline FakeCinEnquirer

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19389 on: February 07, 2013, 04:48:22 AM »
^Mark Miller is slacking. Jake's post has been up a full 6 hours and he hasn't tweeted that link.


Mark must still be tired from sleeping all day yesterday

Offline hoerstw

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19390 on: February 07, 2013, 06:15:56 AM »
http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region_central_cincinnati/downtown/horseshoe-casino-cincinnati-plans-complimentary-shuttle-service-with-partner-hotels

Watch for streetcar opponents to start citing whatever this casino shuttle is going to be as a reason why private businesses are good and publicly supported streetcars are bad.

There is already a quote on the Cincinnati.com article from the coasties saying more or less.... the casino clearly saw how terrible the streetcar is so they had to make their own transit...

and how the street car doesnt come close to the casino etc etc.  same story different day.

Offline Neville

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19391 on: February 07, 2013, 06:21:08 AM »
Never mind the fact that the casino is opening over 2 years before the streetcar will be available. derp

Offline John Schneider

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19392 on: February 07, 2013, 10:12:12 AM »
I could have sworn I read a quote by Mann that says he is not opposed.
This might just be pandering to both sides - he's been in politics a while.

One of the most hotly debated issues in Cincinnati has been the city’s planned $128 million, 3.8-mile streetcar line, which might be expanded if the first phase proves successful.
“The voters have twice given it the go-ahead and I respect that. I wouldn’t change it at this point,” Mann said. “But it’s something that should be carefully looked at every step of the way.”

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/local_news/After-long-absence-David-Mann-seeks-return-to-Cincinnati-City-Council

He told me that he voted "No" on Issue 48. He's going to Seattle in a couple of months, and so I asked him to check out the streetcar there. He just doesn't know much about it, like most Cincinnatians.

I've known him for many years, since college. He's a totally solid guy. I hope he wins.

Online GCrites80s

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19393 on: February 07, 2013, 10:22:03 AM »
http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region_central_cincinnati/downtown/horseshoe-casino-cincinnati-plans-complimentary-shuttle-service-with-partner-hotels

Watch for streetcar opponents to start citing whatever this casino shuttle is going to be as a reason why private businesses are good and publicly supported streetcars are bad.

Well, it does have tires and all.

Online jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19394 on: February 07, 2013, 10:26:48 AM »
>so they had to make their own transit...

Today Glen Beck said Obamacare is so expensive that he's going to build a hospital just for his employees. 

Offline BuckeyeB

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19395 on: February 07, 2013, 11:24:17 AM »
>so they had to make their own transit...

Today Glen Beck said Obamacare is so expensive that he's going to build a hospital just for his employees. 


Will the hospital have a padded room for Glenn???

Offline FakeCinEnquirer

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19396 on: February 07, 2013, 01:39:17 PM »
Just for reiteration, Chris Smitherman may have some serious mental issues...We are not dealing with logical, rational streetcar opponents.  We are dealing with the combined forces of a rabid Tea Party that honestly believes the streetcar is 'worse than 9/11' and this man below.  Mind you, some of these are RECENT.  Here's just a sample

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"Smitherman Splits the city in 1st weeks"

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/01/26/loc_loc1asmith.html

Quote
Chris Smitherman is the master of illusion," said Keith Fangman, the Fraternal Order of Police vice president. "He hoodwinked the voters into believing he wanted to improve police-community relations. And he has done the exact opposite

Quote
Allen said no apology would be forthcoming. "My words were strong, they were harsh, but they were an appropriate response to an incredibly irresponsible statement by an elected official," he said. At a Martin Luther King Day event this month, Smitherman noted that King himself was branded as a "troublemaker."


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Chris Smitherman starts singing about freedom during a podcast to support his petition for streetcar signatures in 2009



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Then of course Livingingin's piece:
http://metro-cincinnati.org/?p=2183


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Accusing Jeff Berding of being in the CIA
http://www.cincinnatibeacon.com/index.php?/content/comments/antics_schmantics_smitherman_berding_fbi_and_cia/

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http://blackcincinnati.blogspot.com/2009/05/chris-smitherman-falls-from-councilman.html
Quote
CHRIS is attacking EVERYONE and accusing ANYONE who disagrees with him of doing so because they are part of a grand conspiracy backed by the CIA and FBI to get him like, according to him, they did to Malcolm X and Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

----
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/11/29/loc_loc1counb.html
Quote
Asked what his political goal is, he didn't hesitate a moment. "I want to be president of the United States," he said. The tone in his voice added, "Doesn't everybody?"

Quote
"The police force - they are truly at the core of the African-American community's frustration," he said in an interview days before his swearing-in Monday as a Cincinnati City Council member. "You have a 21-year-old white officer who's never had an African-American friend in his life, and you dump him off in Over-the-Rhine at 3 a.m. and say, 'Police it.' We don't prepare our officers."

Quote
Smitherman, 36, won't settle for being a millionaire. He wants to be a "decamillionaire" - and the fact that he knows the word for someone worth $10 million suggests he's put some thought into it.


Online jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19397 on: February 07, 2013, 01:52:00 PM »
I got some info on the contract with CAF.  We're ordering 5 streetcars and they will be manufactured in Zaragoza, Spain on approximately a 4-week schedule.  That means they will be manufacturing one per month.  They will be shipped to New York where 60% of the work will take place in order to fulfill "Made in the USA" rules.  The wheelsets and car body will be made in Spain but everything will be put together here, which is probably more labor intensive. 

The streetcar car barn on Henry St. will be made to house these five streetcars initially, but can be expanded to house up to 14 steetcars.  The contract we have with CAF allows us to have more streetcars built to our specs on a contract that slides upward, so the longer we wait to order more, the more expensive they will be. 

Offline CincyCapell

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19398 on: February 07, 2013, 05:49:23 PM »
Great work Jake, thanks for the update.

Online jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19399 on: February 07, 2013, 09:50:02 PM »
I got even nerdier tonight by tracking down the CAF facility in Zaragoza, Spain on Google Earth.  As you can see it's a pretty big operation, with many streetcars and other transit vehicles under construction simultaneously:


Here's a crop of that same image, with the roofs of several streetcars giving a sense of scale:


Offline KJP

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19400 on: February 07, 2013, 10:04:48 PM »
Cool!
"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who writes the laws." -- Mayer Amschel Rothschild, founder of the European banking dynasty.

Online jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19401 on: February 07, 2013, 10:08:52 PM »
The interesting part of that plant is that it has 1. no obvious public transportation for its workers (probably a bus) and 2. there is no freight railroad spur.  I suppose the vehicles are partially disassembled after they are tested, then they are reassembled wherever they are trucked to. 

Offline unusualfire

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19402 on: February 07, 2013, 11:41:08 PM »
It's a shame they are not built here in America.

Offline City Blights

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19403 on: February 08, 2013, 12:08:19 AM »
Spain is a leader in streetcar manufacturing as well as one of the tops in the world in complexity and flexibility in their transit network.  Ford is making products in Valencia, Spain instead of Cincinnati nowadays.  Labor is far cheaper in Spain, and the Spanish government is incredibly pro-transit.  Pro-education?  The exact opposite.

Offline Living in Gin

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19404 on: February 08, 2013, 05:48:55 AM »
It's a shame they are not built here in America.

As if there's been any sort of market for American-made streetcars within the past 60 years.

Final assembly is taking place at CAF's plant in Elmira Heights, New York, which is the former American Bridge facility that was acquired by CAF in 2001. CAF is also doing work for Amtrak and Houston's Metro at this facility. Prior to the CAF purchase, the Elmira Heights facility performed assembly and refurbishment for NYC Transit, Boston's MBTA, and Philadelphia's SEPTA. (Philly's new rolling stock on the Market-Frankfort Line were assembled in this facility when it was owned by Adtranz.)

Made in the Twin Tiers: Wheels rolling at CAF USA

Offline Quimbob

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19405 on: February 08, 2013, 07:17:02 AM »
Just for reiteration, Chris Smitherman may have some serious mental issues...
Watching his shows on Local Access cable make it clear in spades.

Offline Quimbob

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19406 on: February 08, 2013, 07:19:40 AM »
I got some info on the contract with CAF.
snip
The streetcar car barn on Henry St. will be made to house these five streetcars initially, but can be expanded to house up to 14 steetcars.  The contract we have with CAF allows us to have more streetcars built to our specs on a contract that slides upward, so the longer we wait to order more, the more expensive they will be. 
Any idea how involved CAF will be in the design of the car barn?

Offline John Schneider

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19407 on: February 08, 2013, 07:52:06 AM »
I got some info on the contract with CAF.
snip
The streetcar car barn on Henry St. will be made to house these five streetcars initially, but can be expanded to house up to 14 steetcars.  The contract we have with CAF allows us to have more streetcars built to our specs on a contract that slides upward, so the longer we wait to order more, the more expensive they will be. 
Any idea how involved CAF will be in the design of the car barn?

I doubt it. The car barn has been designed for a while. I know they traveled to at least Portland to check out the one (now two) they have there. It's a handsome building. Had to pass historic district muster.

Demolition of the block building at the SW corner of Race and Henry will be the first act of the contractor selected to construct the line.

Offline PAlexander

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19408 on: February 08, 2013, 07:59:56 AM »
While I don't really understand why David Mann is running for council, unless he's really angry about all the selling of parking assets that's been going on (his office was in the Kroger building, so between the present parking plan and the sale of the Kroger garage at an enormous discount he's probably had an upfront view of it), I doubt he's going to be anti-streetcar.  His stated platform is entirely conventional.

I wonder what his thoughts really are on the City's finances.  Increasing funding for neighborhood business districts is always popular, but that's not going to improve City finances.  They definitely seem to be perpetually out of whack, most likely because of the depressed economy.  The thing I'd like to know is how the City plans to build out the streetcar after the initial phase.  The only way the City can really improve its balance sheet is on its on initiative is to take depressed areas (such as OTR) and inject enough capital into them so that you have people making decent salaries living there.  This is obviously the plan but unless some sort of increased property tax is dedicated to further streetcar build-out; or unless SORTA or the streetcar SORTA subcommittee or whatever creates a real estate portfolio along the routes, or some combination of the two happens, public transit projects are forever going to be at the mercy of the feds, the state, and the local h8trs.

Offline CincyCapell

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Re: Cincinnati Streetcar News
« Reply #19409 on: February 08, 2013, 08:20:20 AM »
^I believe you meant to write parking lease as no sale has been proposed.