Author Topic: Cleveland: Flats East Bank  (Read 116122 times)

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Offline metrocity

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6480 on: June 09, 2018, 04:28:55 AM »
I don't remember that at all. 

There was also a surf shop during the same time in Tower City. Elements Surf Shop.

Since these places predated the internet as we know it, it's as if they never existed.

I bought my Vision Streetwear there, and Bad Boy Club. Mayfield Heights had a surf shop too...suitcase williys??
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 04:41:42 AM by metrocity »

Offline freefourur

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6481 on: June 09, 2018, 09:29:07 AM »
I don't remember that at all. 

There was also a surf shop during the same time in Tower City. Elements Surf Shop.

Since these places predated the internet as we know it, it's as if they never existed.

I bought my Vision Streetwear there, and Bad Boy Club. Mayfield Heights had a surf shop too...suitcase williys??

Lyndhurst, I think. Next to the bike shop.

Online freethink

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6482 on: June 09, 2018, 10:04:15 AM »
A different image shows it much larger than I thought.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6483 on: June 11, 2018, 10:16:35 AM »
That's a sizable development. Looks like about 40,000 to 50,000 square feet. Now that I'm back from Italy, I can play with some numbers again....

Based on the possible land area involved and the number of floors and half-floors, I'm going to go with 45,000 square feet. At nearly $225 per square foot, what's shown in those renderings may be a $10 million development.

That leaves $140 million unaccounted for in Wolstein's Phase III. The buildable land area for the parking lot next to the Waterfront Line is about 90,000 sf, providing for some space next to the Shoreway bridge and less along the Waterfront Line. The most recent renderings for this site show a base structure of about 2-3 stories including a multilevel parking deck behind. If that's still the plan, then let's go with with an average of three stories/levels for the base structure. So that's about 270,000 square feet. At $225/sf, that's about $60,750,000.

So now we've got roughly $70 million accounted for, and $80 million unaccounted for. If this is proposed to be topped by a residential tower with Lumen-sized floorplates, at $4 million per floor, we may be looking at a 20-story building atop this 2-3 story base. The tower's size could be less if the parking deck is taller than 3-4 levels.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 10:40:44 AM by KJP »
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Offline yanni_gogolak

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6484 on: June 14, 2018, 03:19:07 PM »
June 08, 2018 3:01 pm      Updated 3 days ago
Next phase of Flats East Bank surfaces
By STAN BULLARD       

Designs that Wolstein Group has placed on the agenda for the June 14 meeting of the city's Downtown/Flats Design Review show a group of restaurants, many with exterior patios. The project consists of two buildings of three stories each. Each structure would contain about 6,000 square feet of space.

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20180608/news/164586/next-phase-flats-east-bank-surfaces

Offline 327

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6485 on: June 14, 2018, 03:32:43 PM »
This area should look like Amsterdam, for all the resources invested in it.  Instead we're going out of our way to simulate the aesthetics of a sardine factory.  Literally.  If we wanted historic waterfront buildings-- we already had those and tore them all down!  This is insanity to the power of insanity.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 03:40:34 PM by 327 »

Offline simplythis

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6486 on: June 14, 2018, 11:45:59 PM »
Hmmm.  What happened to all the talk about a cinema and a couple of 11-20 story towers that everyone was speculating a few weeks ago.

Offline imjustinjk

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6487 on: June 15, 2018, 09:23:35 AM »
Hmmm.  What happened to all the talk about a cinema and a couple of 11-20 story towers that everyone was speculating a few weeks ago.

The smaller building is going on the riverfront between Alley Cat and FWD. The large multi use complex will be going on the large parking lot in the middle area.

Offline simplythis

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6488 on: June 15, 2018, 11:17:02 AM »
Hmmm.  What happened to all the talk about a cinema and a couple of 11-20 story towers that everyone was speculating a few weeks ago.

The smaller building is going on the riverfront between Alley Cat and FWD. The large multi use complex will be going on the large parking lot in the middle area.


So now the large 11-20 story building is phase 4 

Offline simplythis

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Offline surfohio

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6490 on: June 15, 2018, 12:13:09 PM »
Hmmm.  What happened to all the talk about a cinema and a couple of 11-20 story towers that everyone was speculating a few weeks ago.

The smaller building is going on the riverfront between Alley Cat and FWD. The large multi use complex will be going on the large parking lot in the middle area.


So now the large 11-20 story building is phase 4 

I'm assuming that the two new buildings are just part of an overall larger Phase 3.

Online freethink

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6491 on: June 15, 2018, 07:37:19 PM »
June 15, 2018 2:13 pm     
Flats East Bank expansion looms

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20180615/news/165341/flats-east-bank-expansion-looms

Wolstein said if the city of Cleveland approves yet-to-be introduced incentives for the next phase of Flats East and final building approvals are received this summer, plans call for starting work as soon as the busy waterfront season ends. That would be tax-increment financing (TIF) legislation, though Wolstein would not discuss specifics before the city begins reviewing it publicly.
Designs for another section of Flats East's next phase, on the parking lot between Flats East Bank Apartments and Punch Bowl Social to the west and the Aloft Hotel and EY office building to the east, will start the city's design review process in July, Wolstein said.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6492 on: June 15, 2018, 07:57:59 PM »
I expect this to be a significant structure, including a residential tower of at least 20 stories in height, possibly as tall as 25 stories.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Online freethink

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6493 on: June 15, 2018, 08:29:18 PM »
^Well I like your optimism but previous renderings give no indication of anything that tall.  Unless they have landed that corporate client that every one else is chasing.
 And with their split from Fairmount it's hard to tell what direction they may go.  It's possible they could put together a OneUniversity type package with numerous partners. But right now I am leaning towards it being more conservative than what you are suggesting.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6494 on: June 15, 2018, 10:01:41 PM »
^Well I like your optimism but previous renderings give no indication of anything that tall. 


No, but previous articles have....

Wolstein also is talking to the Cleveland International Fund, the senior lender on land earmarked for phase three. That property includes grassy space where new restaurants could rise between FWD Day and Nightclub and Alley Cat Oyster Bar, near the Cuyahoga River, and a parking lot behind the existing apartments. The movie theater would occupy the northern end of the parking lot, with retail and a 15-to-20-story apartment tower to the south.

...He also won't name the out-of-town partner he expects to pair with on the apartment tower, which could hold 300 residences.

http://realestate.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2017/09/scott_wolstein_eyes_flats_east.html

And, more recently:

He [Wolstein] expects the first round of plans for phase three, a potential $150 million undertaking, to crop up at city design-review committee meetings within weeks. New buildings would rise in two locations - on a grassy area near the river between FWD Day and Nightclub and Alley Cat Oyster Bar and in place of a parking lot behind the apartment building that bears an illuminated "Flats East Bank" sign.
http://realestate.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2018/05/wolstein_family_fairmount_prop.html

Granted, the existing Flats East Bank apartment building has 240 apartments in a structure having 7 usable stories although the ground floor is an open double-floor so the building looks like eight stories tall. Consider the land area occupied by this large building. It's huge! The building itself (less parking) measures more than 300,000 square feet! The space that might be taken by the new apartment tower is not so expansive. In fact, at most the surface area it might cover could be about 45,000-50,000 square feet. Now if the plan for the Phase III apartment tower will continue to offer 300 apartments (nearly the same as Lumen's 318 units which, BTW,, is costing $135 million vs. Flats East Bank's $150 million Phase III) and occupy a smaller surface area than the Flats phase II apartment building, then we're talking a pretty tall building. The question is, how big will this tower's floorplates be? As noted above, it would be roughly the southern half of the parking lot at West 11th and Main. If you take it literally that it will be exactly the southern half, then the larger red polygon is that southern half, representing the 45,000-50,000 square feet. But I recall seeing past renderings that a parking deck could be built along the Waterfront Line side of this lot. If so, then we may be talking the left half of that polygon. If so, then the floorplates of the apartment tower may be much smaller, like 20,000-30,000 square feet.

Look at the site graphic for a comparison of the potential areas involved. We have an expansive area for the existing 240-unit apartment, 7-to 8-story building vs. a possibly small area for the 300-unit apartment building. The floorplates will determine the height. We already have a pretty good idea of the number of units (about 300) and the cost (about $140 million--that will also include the retail/movie theater/parking). We'll see what Wolstein has in mind. I'm betting 20+ stories including the multi-level retail/movie theater/parking base structure.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 10:12:14 PM by KJP »
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Offline ethlaw

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6495 on: June 18, 2018, 10:19:02 AM »
Anyone hear any word about the concept that's supposed to be replacing Flipside (it's a 70s-themed restaurant/bar)? Originally they said it would open in the spring but I haven't heard anything since then.

Offline mrnyc

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6496 on: June 18, 2018, 01:29:21 PM »
alrighty then -- more residential -- so this is great news.

if they can only do piece by piece now for phase three that is fine.

the tower will come along later i guess.

i like the style. its not flashy, but its alright.

hopefully the public gets to access those open roof decks.

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6497 on: June 18, 2018, 01:37:10 PM »
^mrnyc..are you referring to the two fish shack buildings proposed for along the river.  If yes where did the residential aspect come from.  They are only a total of 6000 square feet and the article states they will house restaurants.  Are you referring to residential for the still to be revealed building on the parking lot between the first apartment building and the EY Building?

Offline mrnyc

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6498 on: June 18, 2018, 01:41:01 PM »
^ oh thanks -- i see i mixed those up. work and play on the internet do not mix today!

Offline Firenze98

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6499 on: June 19, 2018, 10:52:00 AM »

Granted, the existing Flats East Bank apartment building has 240 apartments in a structure having 7 usable stories although the ground floor is an open double-floor so the building looks like eight stories tall. Consider the land area occupied by this large building. It's huge! The building itself (less parking) measures more than 300,000 square feet! The space that might be taken by the new apartment tower is not so expansive. In fact, at most the surface area it might cover could be about 45,000-50,000 square feet. Now if the plan for the Phase III apartment tower will continue to offer 300 apartments (nearly the same as Lumen's 318 units which, BTW,, is costing $135 million vs. Flats East Bank's $150 million Phase III) and occupy a smaller surface area than the Flats phase II apartment building, then we're talking a pretty tall building. The question is, how big will this tower's floorplates be? As noted above, it would be roughly the southern half of the parking lot at West 11th and Main. If you take it literally that it will be exactly the southern half, then the larger red polygon is that southern half, representing the 45,000-50,000 square feet. But I recall seeing past renderings that a parking deck could be built along the Waterfront Line side of this lot. If so, then we may be talking the left half of that polygon. If so, then the floorplates of the apartment tower may be much smaller, like 20,000-30,000 square feet.

Look at the site graphic for a comparison of the potential areas involved. We have an expansive area for the existing 240-unit apartment, 7-to 8-story building vs. a possibly small area for the 300-unit apartment building. The floorplates will determine the height. We already have a pretty good idea of the number of units (about 300) and the cost (about $140 million--that will also include the retail/movie theater/parking). We'll see what Wolstein has in mind. I'm betting 20+ stories including the multi-level retail/movie theater/parking base structure.

[/quote]

Old renderings had the tower closer to the Phase 2 apartment building.  Although this rendering has the tower much shorter.  And this older lease plan did have the parking garage up against the WFL.










Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6500 on: June 19, 2018, 11:09:21 AM »
Which is what I said and what you quoted.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline imjustinjk

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6501 on: June 19, 2018, 11:22:36 AM »
This has been a long project with many moving parts and various proposed plans. Were there any plans for the lot between FWD and Margaritaville? For example, I don't think that Margaritaville was the original intention for that space. I think that if Phase 3 is completed, other FEB parking lots should be filled. It would make for a really great, and complete space.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6502 on: June 19, 2018, 11:30:36 AM »
There's a graphic two posts earlier showing that a parking deck was planned for that lot. As far as I know either a surface lot or deck is all that's ever been planned for that spot.
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Offline imjustinjk

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6503 on: June 19, 2018, 11:38:02 AM »
A deck with street level retail or? Maybe that'll change pending the success of phase 3.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6504 on: June 19, 2018, 11:41:31 AM »
It's a deck wrapped with restaurants/retail.
"Treat this (November 2018) election as if it's the last election in which you can fully exercise your democratic rights. Because it just might be." -- Margy Waller.

Offline imjustinjk

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6505 on: June 19, 2018, 11:44:49 AM »
I guess that's better than a flat surface lot.

Offline YABO713

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6506 on: June 19, 2018, 11:46:20 AM »
I'll go on the record and say that I feel like they're adding just because they're supposed to.

I would've loved a little more creativity. Adding a smaller corporate HQ there, and maybe some condos as well, to lesson the boom or bust sway of this thing when a recession comes.

Offline jws

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6507 on: June 19, 2018, 12:10:50 PM »
to lesson the boom or bust sway of this thing when a recession comes.

In my (admittedly, somewhat limited) conversations with city leaders, both public and private, they genuinely don't seem to think that there will be another recession or that certain development patterns have been unsustainable.

I'll second the sentiment that I'd like to see more emphasis placed on the Flats as an actual place to live. Give the Waterfront Line some purpose.

I do at least like the look of this new development.

Offline mu2010

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6508 on: June 19, 2018, 01:10:33 PM »
People in real estate right now, both local and national, think that a very slow economic recovery means a "soft landing." i.e. the next economic downturn will be nice and easy breezy.

Offline Eastside

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #6509 on: June 28, 2018, 11:53:46 AM »
Was wondering if anyone knew who owned this parking lot down in the East Bank Flats. Thought it be a cool idea to put a building here, however the parking for workers in the adjacent buildings would be a dilemma. Anyone have any ideas for what could be possibly put here? The only thing I could think of would be an apartment building with the bottom level a parking garage. Thanks!