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Author Topic: Cleveland: Flats East Bank  (Read 10725 times)

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Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #720 on: March 01, 2007, 02:12:16 PM »
Fagan's is owned by Russ Khouri and Jim Kassouf (as are the parking lots north of Front). They are among those fighting the port authority.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #721 on: March 01, 2007, 02:13:16 PM »
If and when the ED hearings come out in favor of Wolstein, I've heard that they need to do extensive sewer work ( up to a year??) before they can do any construction in the area.

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #722 on: March 01, 2007, 02:14:21 PM »
Yep, including construction of a sewage pumping station to get the crap out of the valley.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Online MayDay

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #723 on: March 01, 2007, 02:14:45 PM »
"Fagan's is owned by Russ Khouri and Jim Kassouf (as are the parking lots north of Front). They are among those fighting the port authority."

The same people who wanted to put a Microtel on the Davenport Bluffs a few years ago?

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #724 on: March 01, 2007, 02:15:15 PM »
The same!
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline w28th

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #725 on: March 01, 2007, 03:02:09 PM »
Kassauff is certainly on the list of Clevelanders who are a barrier to progress.  Isn't he responsible for the development for the FBI building and Channel 3?  What a piece of shit.

Offline Robclevoh

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #726 on: March 01, 2007, 03:55:51 PM »
CLEVELAND -- A wrecking crew took down Joe's Crab Shack in the flats today.


http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=63817

Offline musky

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #727 on: March 01, 2007, 07:08:41 PM »
Whoo Hooo!


Offline jamiec

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #728 on: March 01, 2007, 07:13:28 PM »
^^ haha, that's hilarious

Online MuRrAy HiLL

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #729 on: March 01, 2007, 08:04:37 PM »
Keep knocking'em down!!

Offline audidave

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #730 on: March 01, 2007, 11:28:42 PM »
So wouldn't this be kind of a shot being fired over Kassouf's bow with Wolstein knocking down the building closest to Fagans?   I don't have any sympathy for owners that are just sitting on the properties not using them.  I realize I'm in the minority about the other owners that are running businesses down there that he shouldn't be allowed to rip down the whole East Bank until everything is settled.   

 I think it would be cool if he'd knock down only half of the East Bank and keep the better buildings to keep some of the feel of the old flats.  I realize he wants a clean slate to deal with as I think all developers seem to.  I'll personally be a little sad when he knocks down Fado's and Dick's last resort.. good memories and decent enough buildings...

Offline Vulpster03

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #731 on: March 02, 2007, 03:02:09 AM »
^ Wolstein's plan does in fact only demolish half of the building on the East Bank. People seem to forget about the strip of buildings on Old River Road on the other side of the Main Avenue Bridge that aren't part of his plan, and will remain in tact. And this strip of buildings is probably worth saving more than the others (in my opinion).

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #732 on: March 03, 2007, 01:56:27 PM »
^If you're talking about the Arhaus/(new) Watermark block, I agree... But stuff like the vacant Odeon, the hideous old Hooters building and that club at the old Kaos could kiss the wrecking ball for all I care, it's junk occupying key lots.  I'm not in love with BW3, accept that it does draw considerable biz and is reasonably fun place -- so it can stay... Wolstein's development could meet rejuvenated building south of the MAB and supplement the handsome residential buildings (Crittendon towers; River Bend; the townhouses).

btw, Jane's plan called for the ugly Main Ave Bridge to be torn down in the Lakefront project, which seems to be closer to fruition west of the river -- any idea how soon that can happen?... It certainly would open up both sides of the Flats and get rid of all the shadows.

Offline zaceman

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #733 on: March 03, 2007, 02:50:15 PM »
i personally like how that bridge looks from pedestrian level in the flats. 

Offline w28th

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #734 on: March 03, 2007, 04:49:08 PM »
I don't think tearing down the Main Avenue Bridge has ever been an option.  That would kind of make the new Lakefront Boulevard project by ODOT totally pointless.  Also, I hope you are being sarcastic about tearing down bridges in the Flats?  The bridges are some of the city's most interesting structures, why the hell would you want to demolish them?

Offline gotribe

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #735 on: March 03, 2007, 06:11:30 PM »
^It wasn't.  In fact, it was just re-built in the past 12 or so years.  I don't know what bridge that could be in reference to. 

Offline From Heights to Harlem

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #736 on: March 03, 2007, 06:23:19 PM »
The bridge is really nice, I love driving from the Westside looking at downtown.  Its really cool.

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #737 on: March 03, 2007, 06:39:07 PM »
Driving over the Main Ave. Bridge provides the best entrance into downtown, imho.  I was driving my wife and a suburban friend into the WHD last weekend. When we were over the Flats, the friend said "wow, our city looks really nice".

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #738 on: March 03, 2007, 11:02:44 PM »
There has been some consideration of reconfiguring the east end of the bridge.  This is detailed in the Pesht thread.  Right now, the east end of the bridge doesn't mesh very well with the Warehouse district.

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #739 on: March 04, 2007, 11:19:06 AM »
^True dat.  The west side of the bridge doesn't exactly mesh so well with its part of town either.

Offline sky

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #740 on: March 04, 2007, 12:56:55 PM »
There has been talk of lowering the eastern end of the bridge so that it touches down on West 9th (instead of West 6th).

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #741 on: March 04, 2007, 01:45:44 PM »
Let me be clear: I don't hate the Main Ave bridge.  In fact, when the Flats thrived in its, er, recent, prior life, one could argue the big blue, girder-ed bridge added a certain urban romance to the waterfront... but that's gone now, as is the old concept of the Flats.  I hate we let it slide, but we've got to let it go.  The new Flats to some, myself included, will be, comparatively, more sterile; more processed and more like what you see in other thriving waterfront towns... In other words, it won't be as uniquely Cleveland as it used to be, and I say that knowing that, yes, there were a bunch of chains and, often, fly-by-night operations down there...

... But the new, Wolstein version, esp with such things as the Lighthouse Landing towers, promises to be much more solid, lasting and 24-7, as it will have a solid, high-density base of residents LIVING THERE and not just weekend warriors from Westlake, Strongsville, Mayfield and the like.... I thought the WCPN discussion, posted here a year or so ago, stated that in the current incarnation of Flats planning (including Price/Corna and, perhaps, Jacobs planning on the West Bank), the bridge was to come down to clear land for development, with West (ex-Shoreway) "boulevard" drivers being routed elsewhere -- Detroit-Superior, I thought, but I'm certainly not the Gospel on such things.

If that's truly the case, I'm for moving on and getting rid of the thing for, really, it would serve no real useful purpose -- maybe, what you guys are mentioning, is a plan to keep the bridge but having it terminate into the WHD while the eastern Shoreway would end at E. 9th (as a freeway, at least) continuing a level route to W. 3rd... I'm not wedded to either proposal accept I'm all for ending the current version of the West Shoreway as the car/truck commuter route it now is... If we can, for once, turn the tables and kill at least one local freeway feeding into downtown Cleveland -- and maybe convert 1 or 2 people to transit commuting -- I am 4-square for it!!!!

Offline w28th

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #742 on: March 04, 2007, 02:29:40 PM »
...regardless, the bridge isn't and shouldn't come down.  You are thinking of the part of the bridge that goes over W6th.  That may very well come down (it would help Stark's plans for sure), but it's a different structure than the main bridge component that physically crosses the river.
Yeah, the Flats will be more sterile, and that's not a good thing.  Your idea of wanting the bridge torn down would push it even further into sterility.  You're contradicting yourself.

Offline mrnyc

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #743 on: March 04, 2007, 03:14:23 PM »
so how many times did you all play that video of joes crap shack getting knocked down? im up to 4 -- woo hoo!

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #744 on: March 05, 2007, 12:09:38 PM »
Fado was in shambles last night, too.  I was down there around 6:00 pm and there were quite a few people around...mostly going to the naughty bar.  I hadn't been on ORR in a while and was reminded that there are a few nice 4-story brick buildings on the east side of the street.  Didn't we have a photo thread on here somewhere that took us through the buildings?  I can't find it...

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #745 on: March 05, 2007, 05:35:46 PM »
^where is the video?

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #746 on: March 07, 2007, 07:09:41 PM »
I note from the court docket that some of the property owner defendants have filed a motion for summary judgment and even more troublesome a motion to convert the March 26 trial  date into oral arguments on the motion for summary judgment.  As I don't believe the court would grant summary judgment in a million years (a first year law student could raise a question of fact resulting in the denial of such a motion), if the companion motion to convert is granted all this will end up doing is delay the trial even more (I believe the trial date has now been continued at least 3 times so this may be a 4th), perhaps into summer.

I also cannot believe all the money the property owner defendants must be spending in connection with this case.  The have filed almost 40 deposition transcripts with the court.  Even if they were just average length transcripts (and I am sure they are not with all the attorneys involved), you are probably looking at almost $40,000.00 in costs just to have the depositions transcribed.  Throw in another $20,000.00 (probably more) for the attendance of the court reporter at the depositions and for the preparation and service of subpoenas.  Now throw in attorney time.  I would guess attorney time for just ONE of the defendants (and of course each defendant will have representation at each of the depositions so multiple by the number of defendants) for depo prep and attendance at all these depositions at close to 100,000.  Also note that this is attorney fees for just one aspect of the case, taking the depositions.  They are also incurring fees for everything from taking phone calls, to conducting legal research to writing memos and briefs and court appearance among many other things.  I would guess from the docket that just one property owner defendant has incurred fees and cost to date of close to 300,000 (may be on the low side especially since they all had to hire real estate experts to testify at trial as to valuation) and they still have not had a trial (where you really start running up the fees).  They really must think they have a great case.  All  I can think is that if they lose the first part of the trial and go to valuation, they have blown any $$ they might have realized by securing a judgment in excess of the settlement offers.  Does any one know if you can recover attorney fees if you win the first part (I mean the property owners).  I would imagine there is a provision in the statute that allows for this or they would not be spending this kind of money.

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #747 on: March 07, 2007, 08:20:23 PM »
Why would you think that they have a great case? I'm guessing that they are doing all this work just to try to scare Wolstein into settling at a much higher rate.

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #748 on: March 07, 2007, 09:44:30 PM »
^I didn't say I thought the property owners had a great case.  In fact, without knowing all the facts as uncovered in discovery I would have absolutely no idea.  I said the property owners in "their own minds" must think they have a good case or they would not be spending so much $$ on attorney fees.  That or their attorneys are really leading them around by their noses.  Plus if they are trying to scare Wolstein to settle at a higher amount, whatever they get in settlement at this higher amount will probably go to their attorneys since they incurred so much in fees.  Even if Wolstein decides to over pay he is not going to pay an unreasonable price.

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #749 on: March 07, 2007, 10:12:28 PM »
^sorry. I misread your intonation.