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Author Topic: Cleveland: Flats East Bank  (Read 13122 times)

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Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #60 on: April 07, 2005, 02:06:35 PM »
I don't think that the bridge portion of Rt. 2 is shifting. 

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #61 on: April 07, 2005, 03:18:59 PM »
Shifting the bridge would make the projection extremely expensive, am I wrong? 

Where will Route 2 begin to change its path through downtown?  Will it stil be elevated through the WHD?

Online KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #62 on: April 07, 2005, 04:41:21 PM »
I don't think that part of the project has been decided yet. One proposal is to have the lanes come down off the Cuyahoga Valley bridge to the level of city streets, before crossing West 3rd, and then angle its way over the tracks to the current alignment east of Browns Stadium. Another is to leave it just the way it is through the Warehouse District. I don't care for that. There may be more options using some other combinations but I'm not aware of what they might be.

KJP
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Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #63 on: April 07, 2005, 04:44:50 PM »
I agree with you, KJP.  It is imposing to look up and see a highway bridge blocking the view of the port and the lake from Wests 6th and 9th.  I hope they lower it.  As I am engineerically-challenged, I don't understand how it would be done.

Offline Ewoops

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #64 on: April 07, 2005, 09:02:53 PM »
I hope the city gets some input in what happens with the redevelopment of the Flats.  It is, in my opinion, Cleveland's most unique asset, and the city needs to do the best job it can to help it fulfill its potential.  Stonebridge, while gorgeous on the outside, seemed to fall short (at least to me) when I actually took a look at an apartment there.  It was just too sterile.  The Flats needs to keep its funky feel, and there are so many great buildings down there, a mix of new buildings and redeveloped ones would really be amazing. 

Does anyone else feel like the parking lot bridging the Warehouse District and Public Square is a better spot for the type of development being proposed for the Flats? Something similar to Block E in Minneapolis, if anyone is familiar?   It also seems like the Flats needs more residential development than the current plan offers, as well as more hotels. 

It is so close to the Rapid, which can take businessmen/women to Public Square and the north end of the financial district, that it seems a no-brainer for a number of small, cool hotels mixed in with a ton of housing (similar to South Beach, but with a Cleveland flavor, maybe we could get more marina slips at the north end of the flats and near Whiskey Island to compensate for the fact that there's not a beautiful beach)  With this kind of traffic, the retail (not to mention dining and nightlife options) aspect would take care of itself.

However, I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth.  If they are going to get something down there started, I am all for it.  I just hope that the infrastructure being put in place for this development will be able to accomodate future growth as well.

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #65 on: April 07, 2005, 10:30:25 PM »
Ewoops,

I agree with you. I fear that this project has too much retail and commercial located in an area that is too far from Public Square.  The giant parking lot would be a much better location.  It would draw the office crowd and the residential crowd.  I don't see folks wanting to walk down into and out of the Flats just to patronize the grocer and bookstore.  We'll see. I'll take the project anyday, but I think that it is not optimally located.  If there was more residential going into the Flats, I would feel better. But, I don't think that 300+ is enough for that area.

Offline nsc

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #66 on: April 08, 2005, 06:05:21 AM »
I agree with you wimwar.  They will need a ton of residential in the Flats to support what they have proposed.  The people in the WHD are getting the retail they need right now for their everyday needs.  Therefore, I don't see the WHD residents walking down the hill to support the proposed retail in the Flats.  I think it will turn into a situation we had 5 to 10 years ago.  Both districts thriving and one hanging on in the long run.  Back to my point however, if they do incorporate enough residential in the Flats project and slightly downsize the commercial, we could see two thriving districts for years to come that feed off of eachother.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #67 on: April 08, 2005, 08:46:45 AM »
ok, first on the parking lots between public square and the whd, we all know those have issues of their own with owners sitting on them until who knows when.  And I think we all agree that the Flats are a district unique to Cleveland and can really become our signature residential quarter in the downtown area.  So, building housing is a key element to this, but what's keeping people away right now is a critical shortage of amenities.  if this project can push the amenities quotient up OVER what the district supports right now, then the residential development will follow because the demand for housing will push it! 

Ewoops, I like the mention of a boutique hotel down there as well.  If this is going to be a signature residential quarter, a boutique hotel will fit in very well.  And I know there are lots of people who look for this type of option first when they're visiting a city for pleasure or for business...they want a more unique, creative space that will put them right in the center of a real neighborhood, not just in the CBD.  love it!
« Last Edit: April 08, 2005, 08:47:16 AM by Mister Good Day »

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #68 on: April 08, 2005, 05:29:24 PM »
A boutique hotel or even a hostel would be a cool addition to the flats.  I like the idea floated (pun intended) awhile back of using the Mather as a hostel.  That would go over extra well if the Mather were moored somewhere in the Flats.  Isn't there a slip that isn't used any more behind Nautica?  Or is it still in use?

Unfortunately, I don't think that the Flats is the place for the sort of development that has been proposed.  Even with more residential development down there to give it a neighborhood base, it doesn't have good enough access for the non-neighborhood residents that the sorts of retail they are proposing will require to be successful.  And I don't think that the retail they are proposing is unique enough to bring people in from more easily accessed alternatives.  I'd much rather see a bookstore or theatre go along Euclid somewhere.  Of course, its not my project, my land, my money.  Whatever.

BTW, this is the same developer who is building a strip mall with loading docks that have some of the nicest views in Northeast Ohio.  Makes me wonder about there decision making process.

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #69 on: April 09, 2005, 10:54:57 AM »
The flats still has the general reputation of an entertainment district so that should draw people.  The WHD is literally spilling over into the flats, especially if District Park comes back online.  (By the way, steel prices are starting to ebb down)
I think there will be enough people, and this may be a great shot in the arm for people to take another look at opening restaurants in the flats.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #70 on: April 09, 2005, 11:19:50 AM »
Seriously, and why can't we have two bookstores downtown???  Really, I think that once developers and retailers see how much public money is going into downtown development and how much of an emphasis there is on residential growth, they'll be lining up to get in on the action!  Or at least, that's how I see it...

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #71 on: April 12, 2005, 06:44:24 PM »
MDG,

There was an article in Crains this week about how a developer backed out of buying the Reserve Square apartment building because it had just been released that Cleveland was the poorest big city.  There are many reasons why national chains will drag their feet before jumping on the downtown band wagon.  Reputation is definitely one of them. I think that eventually we could handle two large book stores, but not now.  Sometimes, I wish we could fast forward a decade and see what developments actually take place.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #72 on: April 12, 2005, 10:11:21 PM »
kind of like in Sim City?

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #73 on: April 13, 2005, 01:14:52 AM »
Exactly.

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #74 on: April 16, 2005, 12:08:40 PM »
I can't find the topic, but I remember reading that the port authority was looking into buying up WHD lots to squeeze out other lot owners.  Looks like Cleveland has had this idea going for a while. Below is an excerpt from Bruce Blog in late 2003

Plans are in the works for the development of a new city park in the Flats known as Canal Basin Park, located just west of where Forest City wanted to build a convention center. First, the Cleveland Waterfront Coalition, the nonprofit that fought to save two of the giant Hulett ore unloaders, is conducting an engineering study to see if a parcel of land at the river’s edge is suitable to support the Huletts. The land, just west of the Carter Road Bridge, is owned by businessman Mike Miller, who tore down an old B&O railroad station and paved it over for parking.

The city really wants a park there and an achievable green space initiative that it can get a win on (one that is easier or more achievable than Whiskey Island) and that Campbell administration can take credit for. So, the city surrounded Miller with parking and lowered their rates to effectively squeeze his parking operation out—which seems to be working—he can’t fill his lot even charging $1 a day.The CWC is spending some considerable money to test the soil to see if the riverbank land could support the tonnage of the Huletts and to assess the market value of the land in order to make Miller a competitive offer.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #75 on: April 20, 2005, 02:56:24 PM »
sounds unfair, but i like it!

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #76 on: May 09, 2005, 09:28:40 PM »
Interesting interview from Crains Cleveland, it mentions this project.


 Engineering a new Cleveland
Few companies have had their hands in as many Northeast Ohio projects as engineering, design and architecture company URS Corp.

The company, led in Cleveland by 44-year-old lifelong Northeast Ohioan Gary Hribar, has done design work on Gund Arena, Jacobs Field, Cleveland Browns Stadium, Cleveland Hopkins International Airport, the Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority, and widening of State Route 91 in Mayfield Village.

Mr. Hribar, a 13-year veteran with URS, took the reins of the company’s Cleveland office late last year, after serving an apprenticeship under Bill Laubscher, who led the office since 1995.

More at crainscleveland.com http://www.crainscleveland.com
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 10:41:43 AM by MayDay »

Offline zaceman

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #77 on: May 09, 2005, 10:01:19 PM »
now its over 200 million....??

Offline WoollyBear

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #78 on: May 10, 2005, 08:10:32 AM »
Shit, atleast this project is starting. I am really interested in seeing what they are planning on building. I am excited to see that there is going to be a residential component to this project though.

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #79 on: May 10, 2005, 08:57:46 AM »
I find it interesting that they said the residential component would be large.  I wonder if they have changed their focus since we last heard about these plans.  It seemed that the commercial aspect was more important then.

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #80 on: May 10, 2005, 09:35:14 AM »
well, maybe the steel prices are factoring into it.  Also, plastic components have increased along with the price of oil.  I really hope the project has expanded, but it may be just the cost of materials

Offline Paul in Cleveland

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #81 on: May 10, 2005, 05:45:03 PM »
Take a look at Penton. Penton was a company that moved downtown into the Bond Court building and should be a thriving company, but has fallen on tough times for whatever reason.

Sorry for the aside.  From a 10-year Penton employee, I should mention that Penton has always been downtown (we used to own the Penton Press in Berea, too).  Before moving into the old Bond Court Building, we were in the Diamond Building.  We've also been in the old Penton Plaza (near Perk Park, now renamed something else) and in the Rockefeller Bldg. many years ago.

Penton got in trouble because we bought up a bunch of Internet-type publications and trade shows right before the Internet bubble burst, and we also invested heavily in trade shows, and then 9-11 made everyone want to stay home.  Double whammy.  The company would be doing fine, except we have over $300 million in debt with nothing to show for it.  Our ex-CEO made a lot of dumb moves, thank goodness he's gone now!  Hopefully, in a few years, we will be a much stronger company, if we can refinance our debt.


Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #82 on: May 10, 2005, 08:35:36 PM »
glad to hear it Paul, that interview kinda bummed me out

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #83 on: May 10, 2005, 08:41:12 PM »
RE the Crain article:  Everyone has a viewpoint, but I wouldn't assume that an engineer is necessarily any better informed about the city's economic condition than any other person.  Interesting observations, but take them with a grain of salt.

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #84 on: May 11, 2005, 04:37:13 PM »
Well, finally we are going to hear about this proposed project.  This should give us something positive to talk about..   :yap:  :clap:

Flats project to be unveiled

By BRANDON GLENN
 
Plans are set to be unveiled Monday, May 16, for a new $200 million real estate project on the East Bank of Cleveland’s Flats.

A statement released this afternoon from public relations company Lesic & Camper Communications LLC announced Monday’s news conference, but provided few details. According to the statement, the project “represents the largest private sector investment in Cleveland since 1988.”
 
More at http://crainscleveland.com/news.cms?newsId=3355
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 10:42:37 AM by MayDay »

Online mrnyc

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #85 on: May 11, 2005, 04:50:38 PM »
wow, some very good news! mayday you have a lunch appointment, bring camera!!!

Offline zaceman

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #86 on: May 11, 2005, 05:00:38 PM »
oh awesome

is that the full article?

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #87 on: May 11, 2005, 05:12:20 PM »
Yep. It is the full article.  I am hoping that they tell Crains before Monday so that the story will be in next week's edition.  They always post the new edition at midnight Sunday night.

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #88 on: May 11, 2005, 06:02:51 PM »
...Which is why I'm always up till 1:00 Monday morning!  Ok, just kidding, I'm always up till 1:00 AM.

Offline zaceman

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #89 on: May 12, 2005, 07:36:08 AM »
$230 million Flats plan picks up speed
Thursday, May 12, 2005

Christopher Montgomery
Plain Dealer Reporter

Backers of a long-discussed revitalization plan for the east bank of the Flats will kick off a campaign next week to gain support for the $230 million project. Public financing, a major question about the development in the past, appears to be falling into place.

Developer Scott Wolstein is proposing a mixed-use development composed of 300 housing units - split evenly between condominiums and apartments - and commercial components that could include a multiplex theater, grocery store, bookstore and other retail.


More at http://www.cleveland.com/business/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/business/111589061235222.xml&coll=2
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 10:42:58 AM by MayDay »