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Author Topic: Cleveland: Flats East Bank  (Read 38599 times)

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Offline nsc

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2005, 10:33:02 AM »
I read on the Cleveland.com forum that Doug Price, the developer of Stonebridge, is going to be anouncing a Condo project on the East bank.  There are no details on it yet.  Does anyone know about this.  Something like Stonebride "hugging" the river would be nice.

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2005, 10:48:48 AM »
Mister Good Day brings up a good point about the street level interaction that Stonebridge lacks.
I hope this is taken into consideration if they do something big on the East Bank

Offline nsc

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2005, 10:55:36 AM »
You won't have much going on at the street level with that being the first development over there.  Bring more and more of that and you will see street interaction.  Be patient for the spin-off.  Lets just be glad things are happening in the flats. 

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2005, 03:53:38 PM »
I wouldn't want any street retail with Stonebridge.  Cleveland has too many store fronts.  We need more critical mass before we can support more retail. That said, I wish that there was more of an entrance with the street.  The parking lot is on the first floor, but I remember that you can see over the gray wall into the garage
Whatis that about?  I wish that the stone/brick would have gone all the way down to the ground.  Also, I think that store fronts would be too isolated in that dead end street to succeed.  Can't wait to hear more about his plans.  That woud be a nice neighborhood there.

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2005, 04:05:12 PM »
I hope that the new project doesnt hug the river. I like the views that Stonebridge has of the river.  It would be too cluttered if more buildings were added between Stonebridge and the Cuyahoga River.  We need to move inwards and line some of the streets that descend into the flats from St. Malachi.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2005, 01:45:10 PM by wimwar »

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2005, 01:34:17 PM »
New port official looks to revitalize region
Thursday, March 10, 2005
Sarah Hollander
Plain Dealer Reporter
Mayor Jane Campbell's former chief of staff begins a new job next week with a mission of expanding the Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority's economic development role.

Deb Janik starts Monday as the port's vice president of regional development. She will work directly with the city, the county, suburbs, local banks, developers, the Cuyahoga County Mayors and City Managers Association and neighborhood and civic groups, such as Team NEO and the Greater Cleveland Partnership.

More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 10:43:29 AM by MayDay »

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2005, 01:52:49 PM »
I saw that article.  I wonder how long it will take until there is word on the timeline for the project.  The Warehouse District needs more than just bars to survive as a viable neighborhood. I hope that there will be something that keeps the place vivrant during the other hours of the day (as a bookstore, grocery store, cinema all could do) We all saw how the Flats sunk quickly in the late 90s when it was such a mono-culture. 

I hope that the number of units ends up being higher that 350.  We need more critical mass.

Offline MayDay

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2005, 02:24:20 PM »
The thing is - the Warehouse District *does* offer more than bars. Sure, there are plenty of them but the majority of market-rate housing downtown is right there.The Flats never really had much of a residential element.

What I'm liking is that there are more and more casual eateries opening around the Warehouse District instead of "special occasion" spots. You have Nauti Mermaid on West 6th, Captain Franks on St. Clair at West Third, and Flo Cafe on West 6th at Lakeside. That tells me there's a demand for everyday places to eat which tells me the area's investment in residential units is paying off. I think Constantino's is good enough to tide residents over until there's truly enough critical mass for a full-size grocer.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2005, 02:25:35 PM by MayDay »

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2005, 02:39:00 PM »
I was in the Warehouse District last weekend for the first time in years.  I saw Ron Harper and a bunch of NBA-looking people eating at a restaurant on the corner of W.6th and St. Claire. 

Offline MayDay

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2005, 02:51:29 PM »
That would have been either XO, Metropolitan Cafe, or the Blue Point Grille. Those are a few of the "special occasion" joints, especially XO and Blue Point.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2005, 02:53:24 PM by MayDay »

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2005, 03:47:35 PM »
Blue Pointe. 

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2005, 04:07:33 PM »
When I first heard about this development, I thought it was just another Wolstein big idea for the flats (remember putting a roof over old river road?) but it actually sounds like it might happen.

Can you imagine a lazy day, sitting on a porch with a cup of coffee watching one of those huge barges slowly navigating the river.  I would love to live there.

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2005, 04:36:32 PM »
I think that the roof idea was actually put out there by Corna.  He is one of the guys from Stonebridge. Corna also wanted to line condos along the street that runs parallel to the CSX tracks and ends at the old Fagans.  I always wondered how he would get control of the land. 

I think that this plan has a chance.  The state has already given 3 million to the project. I doubt that they would throw money at something that is not going to happen.  I just hope that the density it great enough.  I think that the bookstore idea is grand.  Borders did wonders for a neighborhood next to Vanderbilt in Nashville.  I would think that the 20-30 yr educated crowd in the Warehouse District area would create some steady business for the bookstore, and provide for some alternative entertainment.  Diversity is important for the area's success.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2005, 03:39:17 PM »
I just spent a few days in Cleveland and one of my persistent impressions of the city remains the same...we have a city with many great neighborhoods that are on the verge of becoming complete, yet are still functioning independently of each other.  These places...Tremont, Ohio City, Detroit Shoreway, the Flats, Warehouse District, Gateway, CSU, Midtown, etc...have the potential to grow together to form one of the most exciting, complete, vibrant collections of inner-city neighborhoods in the country.

On that note, I'm glad to hear about the new position at the Port Authority...especially with someone who has so much experience with City Hall and Neighborhood Progress Inc.  I think we've all shared the sentiment that the "powers that be" in Cleveland are often working against each other.  Having someone in this role with the necessary connections and relationship coming in will certaintly expedite the development process.  I'm very optimistic about the project we're talking about here and with the Port Authority working as another group that wants to make this a reality, we've got a much greater chance of seeing it happen. 

Offline punch

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2005, 05:24:00 PM »
One huge piece of the puzzle is still owned and neglected by FCE, that is the Scranton Penninsula.  That would definitely connect Tremont to downtown and to duck island, which would spill over to Ohio City.
Maybe one day.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #45 on: March 13, 2005, 07:15:59 PM »
a boy can dream, can't he?

I was pleased to find how easy it was to get from Tremont to Ohio City and Downtown on RTA buses.  When bike weather returns...piece o' cake!

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2005, 12:08:53 AM »
From the sounds of this project (cinema, large bookstore, grocery store, etc), it seems that it would be more successful if placed on Forest City's large surface lot on West 6th.  From that location, it would get much more foot traffic from downtown office workers.  It would bridge the office district and the WHD.  If it is stuck down the hill in the Flats, it is too isolated.  If Wolstein is interested in doing in the Flats, why isn't Forest City interested in doing something similar in the WHD?  Wolstein's project would preclude any similar retail project from being attempted on FC's land for the foreseeable future.  FC must seriously be sour on Cleveland. 

That said, I still think that Wolstein needs more than 300 housing units in the Flats, especially since District Park looks dead.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #47 on: March 19, 2005, 02:18:51 PM »
What's this Forest City site in the WHD?

I agree, though, that the bookstore/cinema could be too isolated in the Flats.  That's for right now, though.  I would hope that somewhere down the road, in the not-too-distant future, we'll be able to support Tower City, a development of major retail/entertainment on this site in the Flats and another one over by Playhouse Square.  I could see something big like a movie theater/bookstore sprouting up on 14th and Euclid once the Euclid Corridor is completed.  They could capture the residential and hotel population over on that end of Downtown, especially with new E.12th Street projects and CSU residential growth.  The existing population in the WHD and new housing in the Flats (east and west) could support the one we're talking about in this thread, and the commuters from the suburbs would still support Tower City. 

This seems like dreaming right now, but come on, we should be able to support multiple bookstores and theaters in our Downtown!  And I for one know that I would be much more inclined to live down there if there were more sprouting up...chicken and egg, I guess.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2005, 02:19:57 PM by Mister Good Day »

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2005, 07:50:42 PM »
Forest City controls the mamoth parking lot that stretches from West 3rd to West 6th, bordered by St. Claire and Superior Avenue.  I might be wrong, but I am pretty sure that they control that land.  It was where their first attempt at a convention center site was before they realized it was not a good place, and then they retreated back to the Tower City site.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2005, 07:55:52 PM by wimwar »

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2005, 09:54:35 PM »
I tried to check it all out on the city's GIS pages, but I couldn't figure it out.  There seem to be quite a few different owners.  However, I suppose Forest City could just have all sorts of subsidiaries that are listed as owners, but in reality, they control the whole thing.  Whatever, it needs to be developed already!

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #50 on: April 05, 2005, 09:52:58 AM »
Here's another article on the project.  Kind of a long read that is short on details..

A Second Chance
Learning from past mistakes, developers and the city of Cleveland are working to revive the Flats.

Sara Lepro
lepro@inside-business.com 
Rustom Khouri bought his first piece of property in the Flats in 1986. He was one of many developers at the forefront of revitalizing the historically industrial site into an entertainment district.

"We believed it would have a national draw," says Khouri, president and CEO of Carnegie Management Group, a Westlake-based commercial real estate development company that owns property on the East Bank. "For a long time, that was the case."

During its heyday of the 1980s and 1990s, the Flats pulsated with bars, nightclubs and restaurants dotting both banks of the Cuyahoga River.

More at www.inside-business.com 
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 10:44:16 AM by MayDay »

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2005, 11:38:30 PM »
This is the single, key sentence in the whole article... leads me to believe this one, at least partially, might get done:

The city has agreed to contribute between $15 million and $20 million to the project over several years, and the state has allotted $3 million of its 2005 capital budget toward the project.




Offline nsc

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #52 on: April 06, 2005, 07:12:31 AM »
To make a long story short, is this going to hapen or not?

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #53 on: April 06, 2005, 10:36:02 AM »
The tone has always seemed to be that it will get down.  The city has agreed to fund it and the state has already given money.  I wouldn't think that they would give cash to something that they  doubted would happen.  I wish that we would hear a timeframe for this project. 

Offline nsc

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #54 on: April 06, 2005, 02:25:14 PM »
What is the project.  Is there a specific architect involved, is there a site plan, are there tenents?  For a project that has already received funding, and as much as it has, I would have expected to see something by now.

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #55 on: April 06, 2005, 02:36:57 PM »
I would assume that once some anchor tenants have signed on that we would hear some names.  The fact that we haven't heard anything must mean that negotiations are ongoing.  Of course the city and state money must be contingent on it happening.  In order to show the potential tenants that it will happen, I am sure that the goverment must demonstrate first that they will put up the cash.

All the articles seem optimistic, or, as if its a foregone conclusion that the project will happen.  I'll believe it when I see it.  That said, I do have my hopes up.

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #56 on: April 06, 2005, 05:27:50 PM »
This isn't a specific project rendering, but a slide from the Lakefront Plan that shows something like what might happen here.  Look to the far right of the picture, the buildings grouped around a grass oval.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #57 on: April 06, 2005, 08:48:15 PM »
The article is great...very optimistic...and I like to hear that kind of talk!  It's refreshing!  This has been one of the most talked about projects that I can think of over the past year or so that would actually MAKE SENSE.  Screw the convention center...this is the stuff that makes cities livable.  Real neighborhoods that connect to other real neighborhoods.

I'm also glad to read that Stonebridge is being hailed as a success and a sign of things to come.  Partnerships and cohesive vision are invaluable and if the public and private sides of things continue to work together like this, then we might see more creative, unique places like the Superior Viaduct come into the picture.

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #58 on: April 06, 2005, 08:58:47 PM »
MGD,

Corna, one of the two partners on Stonebridge project, is the dad of a kid who went to wildcat high during my years.  It sounds great that there is such open dialogue amongst the west siders.  Hopefully, they will continue building residential on that side of the river. 

Offline nsc

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #59 on: April 07, 2005, 08:39:39 AM »
I could just see the city shutting this down because the plan interferes with shifting Rt 2.