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Author Topic: Cleveland: Flats East Bank  (Read 10963 times)

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Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #150 on: May 17, 2005, 12:05:21 PM »
As others such as MGD has pointed out, I wish that a small boutique hotel could be a part of this project. 

Offline nsc

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #151 on: May 17, 2005, 12:14:17 PM »
^I think we need to wait for the convention center for more lodging to pop up.  Also, I do not think we should be in this position.  The flats should have been built up back in its heyday when it had a big name nationwide.  You would not even have to advertise for this developement or look for more money.  Hotels and residential would have been major cash back then.  But it went to hell, now we are stuck with a risky developement, that still may not happen,  that involves tearing buildings down that once brought in tons of money and tourism. 

Offline WoollyBear

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #152 on: May 17, 2005, 12:29:57 PM »
I really like the idea of the boardwalk. I was just viewing the San Antonio picture thread that  showed the river walk, and I was really impressed by the number of people walking. I think that a boardwalk by this development would be a great way to lure residents, and tourists. Could you imagine living there, and being able to go out on any night and enjoy a great meal, do some shopping and then finish off the night by walking down by the river? That would be awesome. If this thing gets built, by 2015 I bet that entire corner of downtown is going to look totally different. I can not wait until this thread gets moved to the "completed projects" board.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #153 on: May 17, 2005, 06:32:47 PM »
"I think we need to wait for the convention center for more lodging to pop up."

I disagree...boutique hotels don't necessarily rely on convention center-type traffic to thrive.  They're more for the hip, young traveler who wants to hang out in real neighborhoods where real nightlife and residents can be found.  I know this is what I look for when I go out of town for a weekend getaway...boutique hotels and B&Bs.  I also know that folks in my company, which is NYC non-profit, travel to the midwest quite frequently for small meetings and site visits to their projects.  Places like KC, Cincinnati, Cleveland...mid-sized cities, filled with pockets of character. But if you were to just settle for an airport hotel or a big-time downtown hotel, you'd miss out on a lot of this.  My boss, in particular, is big on checking out the boutique hotels whenever she travels.  I think she likes supporting smaller scale businesses and definitely enjoys staying in more functional neighborhoods, rather than the financial CBD. 

I think a spinoff boutique hotel or one as a part of this project would do quite well.

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #154 on: May 18, 2005, 01:43:54 AM »
... one note re the long time lag to completion (2009): that even after brownfield clearing, the PD article suggests sufficient street infrastructure -- water, sewers, electric -- must be significantly expanded/upgraded to support this kind of high density development of this project ... as opposed to the lighter needs of the mere part-time bars/restaurants along Old River Road,  and the warehouses/bars that preceded them... and that this upgrading, along with the reconfiguring of the streets, themselves, must be done/will take time, before the actual sites can be graded and buildings can rise. 

... makes sense.

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #155 on: May 18, 2005, 08:06:54 PM »
well, it better be spectacular when it's finished...that's all I have to say!  4 years...sheesh

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #156 on: May 18, 2005, 08:13:05 PM »
What?!  No one posted this yet???

Flats project draws praise, concern from City Council
Wednesday, May 18, 2005
Olivera Perkins
Plain Dealer Reporter

Cleveland City Council members say Scott Wolstein's $225 million plan to redevelop the east bank of the Flats is a good one as long as it doesn't shortchange the schools and other neighborhood projects.

Wolstein presented the plan Tuesday to Council's Community and Economic Development Committee.

More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 11:38:29 AM by MayDay »

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #157 on: May 18, 2005, 08:18:56 PM »
One comment about the last sentence...I think with all the new residential in both neighborhoods and the distance between the two there can be demand for two theaters...and as I always say, provision of amenities will spur even more development, so these will both be great for their neighborhoods and their near surroundings!

Offline zaceman

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #158 on: May 18, 2005, 08:22:33 PM »
oh yea ohio city/detroit shoreway can definately support its own along with the new downtown one.  they could probably even collaborate

Offline MayDay

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #159 on: May 18, 2005, 08:34:56 PM »
"Councilman Zack Reed expressed concern about the financing district, saying the schools should get more than half of the taxes.

"How can we go to the residents and ask for a levy while at the same time say in the light of progress, we need to give this project 50 percent of the school taxes?" Reed said."


If I was Zack Reed, I'd be more worried about my recent DUI charge - oops! What would he suggest? Gee, let's not approve ANY investment - and let's not provide ANY incentive to developers until the schools have a 100% graduation rate? The revenue from this project is a drop in the bucket compared to the real needs of the schools. If he's THAT concerned about school funding, he needs to take a trip down I-71 and argue school funding issues on the level where real difference can be made.

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #160 on: May 18, 2005, 11:11:06 PM »
Not to mention the fact that 50% of something is better than 0% of nothing.

Offline MyTwoSense

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #161 on: May 19, 2005, 09:57:03 AM »
Not to mention the fact that 50% of something is better than 0% of nothing.

AMEN!  You can say that again! 

If he wants to be upset about something be upset about "secret" meeting for a "lifestyle" center in a inconvienient area of the city when those stores could be constructed in current buildings/parking lots in downtown...but dont get my pressure up just yet this morning!  :x  :x

Offline MayDay

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #162 on: May 19, 2005, 10:06:12 AM »
^Oh Steelyard Commons won't even be something as "nice" as a lifestyle center. We're talking a 'power center' along the lines of Macedonia Commons or Avon Commons - big boxes surrounded by seas of asphalt. I know Jane really didn't please a lot of people (myself included, a registered voter in the city of Cleveland) by going behind Council's back on this one.

Offline MyTwoSense

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #163 on: May 19, 2005, 10:18:31 AM »
^Oh Steelyard Commons won't even be something as "nice" as a lifestyle center. We're talking a 'power center' along the lines of Macedonia Commons or Avon Commons - big boxes surrounded by seas of asphalt. I know Jane really didn't please a lot of people (myself included, a registered voter in the city of Cleveland) by going behind Council's back on this one.

As another registered voter IN Cleveland, Jane got a piece of my mind at 3:45AM this morning.  Steelyard got my juices flowing and the email started flowing.   argh! :x

Offline FerrariEnzo

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #164 on: May 22, 2005, 04:10:33 PM »
ARCHITECTURE
City ought to weigh Flats project design
Sunday, May 22, 2005
Developer Scott Wolstein's announcement last week that he wants to launch a sweeping redevelopment in the Flats along the East Bank of the Cuyahoga River was great news for Cleveland.

It would transform a row of seedy, dying bars and nightclubs north of the Main Avenue (Burton Memorial) Bridge into a 13-acre neighborhood intended to attract the young, smart, workers Cleveland needs to power the high-tech industries of the future.

More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 11:39:22 AM by MayDay »

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #165 on: May 23, 2005, 09:42:46 PM »
Yes, a thoughtful and on-point article by Mr. Litt.  This is on all of our minds!

Offline sooner

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #166 on: May 24, 2005, 02:07:33 PM »
Agreed, this is a little too suburbanish ( is that a word?) for the location...not that I don't want to see it happen an be successful.
By the way, of all the drawing board or proposed projects in Cle, which do you think is most important or would have the greatest impact.  There are a dozen or more currently being discussed in this forum.  Personally, I think if this project can persuade the Defense Finance jobs to stay in Cle, it would be the most crucial. 
Number one fantasy project would be Peter Lewis deciding that his company should move downtown with his several thousand employees.
How would everyone else rank these?

Offline MyTwoSense

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #167 on: May 24, 2005, 05:26:19 PM »
Agreed, this is a little too suburbanish ( is that a word?) for the location...not that I don't want to see it happen an be successful.
By the way, of all the drawing board or proposed projects in Cle, which do you think is most important or would have the greatest impact. There are a dozen or more currently being discussed in this forum. Personally, I think if this project can persuade the Defense Finance jobs to stay in Cle, it would be the most crucial.
Number one fantasy project would be Peter Lewis deciding that his company should move downtown with his several thousand employees.
How would everyone else rank these?

Without seeing any drawing or renderings lets see what they have offered.  I think they can still have Unique and architecually inspiring buildings even if not highrise.  the DFAS jobs would be great.

Progessive downtown would be progressive!!!  Jane and the county comm. should be kissing is a$$ to develop something downtown.  however, why aren't we talking to Sherwin Williams to stop hiding they're corporate name and build something on Public Sq (or other lot in downtown) and show some civic pride. 

Hell I wouldn't mind S-W slapping their name on the BP Building, but i would rather see that as a hotel!  Any tenant in the building could be moved to other first class office space downtown and this could be our "convention" sized hotel without building something new.

My wish is that we develop subway lines under our major avenues.  even if they only go 55/60 blocks initially

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #168 on: May 24, 2005, 05:43:40 PM »
I like the design of the project for a few main reasons:

Many small streets that intersect.  This creates interesting places to walk.  There is always a new perspective at each corner. The current old river road suffers by being one long street with several uninspired older buildings (north of the bridge). 

The four-way intersection where there is a second floor setback.  The first floors are right on the street, but the upper levels are set back at the corners.  This will allow some much needed sunshine to flow into that space.

The walkways along the river.  No need to explain this.

The streets are perpendicular to the river. This allows some good views of the river even from a block or two inland.

The mini-amphitheater on the river.  Cleveland so much needs well-planned public spaces where people can gather. The Malls are great, but no one lives there or has any reason to pass through.  This amphitheater will give people a place to sit and watch as boats go by. 

Good placement of the bookstore.  To survive, it needs to be close to the warehouse district.  Being at that corner and adjacent to the rapid station gives it good visibility.  Also, the bookstore would be across from the art theater.  Good idea,  Movie crowds like to do things before or after a movie.  Smart people often like art flicks. Smart people like to browse bookstores.  This arrangement provides a good incentive to stick around the area for a longer amount of time. 

I hope to see this development spark some rehabs along the south stretch of old river road.  Could we please turn the large tool company's building (forgot the name) into condos. It is a building that screams for renovation.  All the windows are boarded up with some aluminium siding.  I wonder who is frying in architectural hell for that decision?  That street, with the old Watermark building, could be a great place for some pricey condos.  The only problem is the Odeon.  I don't know who would want to live next to that place. It can be very loud.

I would think that the smaller details of the buildings have yet to be determined.  Too early in the process.  I really like what they have presented.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2005, 05:55:14 PM by wimwar »

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #169 on: May 24, 2005, 06:57:43 PM »
See my post at

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1782.msg34736#msg34736

for a way to possibly link up downtown destinations by reworking the convention center plan.

KJP
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline urbanlife

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #170 on: June 15, 2005, 05:36:17 PM »
   
Circus in the Flats sold

By STAN BULLARD

June 15. 2005 11:32AM


The sale of the Circus, an adult club in the Flats, likely adds a new hoop to jump through for the real estate developer planning to redo Old River Road as an upscale downtown neighborhood.

HDV Cleveland LLC, an out-of-town investor group associated with the 75-club Déjà Vu chain, acquired the Circus in the Flats on Tuesday, June 14, and plans to turn it into a Larry Flynt Hustler Club. The sale comes shortly after the Wolstein Group development concern announced plans to remake Old River north of Main Avenue as a new downtown neighborhood with condos, apartments and retail space.

More at
http://www.crainscleveland.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050615/FREE/50615001/1004&Profile=1004


 
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 11:39:48 AM by MayDay »

Offline Map Boy

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #171 on: June 15, 2005, 05:46:26 PM »
what the *#@?!?!  this is ridiculous!  was he not approached by Wolstein about selling to him?  Is he just trying to muck things up?  and what is a chain doing buying this land with a proposal like this on the table???

Offline buildingcincinnati

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #172 on: June 15, 2005, 07:09:08 PM »
Man, I was at the Circus a couple of years ago for my friend's bachelor party.  One of the strippers nearly tore his nipple off.  I don't think he was expecting to be flogged and beaten.

Anyway, back to the topic!

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #173 on: June 15, 2005, 08:06:58 PM »
Its a great scam.  Buy a property with some supposed plans to invest a bunch in it, then claim that its worth alot because of the great plans you have.  All you really have to do is buy it and flip.  Your lawyers will do the rest.

Offline 3231

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #174 on: June 15, 2005, 08:18:32 PM »
Its a bit unsettling that a national chain would feel confident enough to buy into this area when it is slated to be demonished.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #175 on: June 15, 2005, 08:34:37 PM »
Spencer is the name on the marquee for the no-neck crowd sitting in the shadowy back room, if you follow me. For people of his cadre, it is more desireable to be feared than to be loved. The guy who owns some of the bars across the street is cut from the same cloth, er, silk shirts. This isn't going to be easy for Scott W.

Remember Ed Stinn Chevrolet in Fairview Park? That place sat empty for a decade because ol' Ed had debts to people who don't refinance unless your kneecaps are part of the deal.

KJP
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline blinker12

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #176 on: June 15, 2005, 11:59:05 PM »
A retired Cleveland firefighter, Mr. Spencer has moved to Naples, Fla., where he works on real estate investments. If his situation were different, he said, he would have liked to have been "a part of the redevelopment of the Flats."

Is that supposed to redeem him? That if he hadn't jumped ship and moved to Florida he would have done something more responsible??? What a load of crap.

Offline zaceman

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #177 on: June 16, 2005, 12:00:12 AM »
wow... its almost comical

Offline Icecream

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #178 on: June 22, 2005, 05:03:29 PM »
It is comical... read the writing on the wall... Wolstein's project isn't real.  It was released for political reasons.

Offline X

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Re: Cleveland: Flats East Bank
« Reply #179 on: June 22, 2005, 06:01:19 PM »
Well I don't know about that. Wolstein does own a good chunk of the land down there, and site control is the most difficult thing about getting a development started.  That's not to say there aren't still issues to work out, but they've done a good chunk of the hard work already, and they have a good track record of getting things done.  This is just an example of some shysters getting in just ahead of what they think is going to be a good payday for them.  They can make trouble, but ultimately, they probably won't be enough to stop the project from going forward.