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Author Topic: Beachwood: New Eaton Headquarters  (Read 1952 times)

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Online simplythis

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #240 on: September 23, 2008, 04:48:35 PM »
Can a change in city tax law be made to salvage this FEB Eaton project. What do you experts think?

Offline Flee2theCleve

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #241 on: September 23, 2008, 05:09:48 PM »
isn't this sort of tactic precisely what Frank Jackson's regionalism platform is so ardently opposed to doing?

Offline punch

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #242 on: September 23, 2008, 11:03:40 PM »
I wonder if the CC goes to the current site, will FCE pitch to Eaton (or did they already??)

Offline Clvlndr in LV

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #243 on: September 24, 2008, 03:54:39 PM »
I wonder if the CC goes to the current site, will FCE pitch to Eaton (or did they already??)

I would certainly love to see it (see my reply#92 pg 4) but it looks as if FCE has no interest in developing that site; just selling it.

When you look at the renderings McCleveland posted and see what Eaton turned down from Stark, it seems clear they're just not interested in downtown. Hope I'm wrong.

Offline McCleveland

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #244 on: September 26, 2008, 08:43:46 AM »
By the way... someone wrote a letter to the editor in the PD today in regards to Eaton's proposed move (I tried to go to Cleveland.com to find the letter, but for some reason cleveland.com is taking me to cleveland.com mobile... is this happening to anyone else?).  But the gist of it was that he was a "gen y" person and he is appalled at this and called out to local leaders and businesses alike.  He even mentioned that people his age don't want anything to do with suburban offices, and it is no longer a question of choosing working downtown Cleveland or the Cleveland suburbs... their generation have already made that choice. It is a question of working downtown Cleveland or in another city.

Business leaders really need to get their arms around this.

Offline doctabroccoli

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #245 on: September 26, 2008, 08:50:41 AM »

Offline McCleveland

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #246 on: September 26, 2008, 08:59:41 AM »
and here's the text (and I'd love to know why my internet browser suddenly thinks it's a blackberry...)

Generation Y is losing faith in Cleveland's core - letter to the editor
Friday, September 26, 2008
The news that Eaton Corp. has chosen Beachwood for its new headquarters comes as a major disappointment to young people in Greater Cleveland.
 
Generation Y is growing less interested in suburban culture. We want to live and work in the city core; we want the excitement of urban life; and we want to give Cleveland a chance. But in the spirit of "regionalism," Mayor Frank Jackson and city leaders seem almost indifferent to companies that move jobs to the suburbs.

In the next few years, thousands of students will graduate from Northeast Ohio's universities. For many of them, the decision to abandon the suburbs has already been made; the choice is no longer between Cleveland and its suburbs, but rather between Cleveland and some other city. If Cleveland's leadership continues to let companies and jobs slip from the city core, Generation Y will become gradually less interested in both Cleveland and "the region."

Rob Pitingolo

Euclid
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 09:00:37 AM by McCleveland »

Offline novusordo0205

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #247 on: September 26, 2008, 09:09:50 AM »
Amen.  That is exactly right.  It's a shame that companies fail to see that the culture of the next generation is far different from that of the Baby Boomers.

Offline MuRrAy HiLL

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #248 on: September 26, 2008, 11:43:09 AM »
and here's the text (and I'd love to know why my internet browser suddenly thinks it's a blackberry...)

Generation Y is losing faith in Cleveland's core - letter to the editor
Friday, September 26, 2008
The news that Eaton Corp. has chosen Beachwood for its new headquarters comes as a major disappointment to young people in Greater Cleveland.
 
Generation Y is growing less interested in suburban culture. We want to live and work in the city core; we want the excitement of urban life; and we want to give Cleveland a chance. But in the spirit of "regionalism," Mayor Frank Jackson and city leaders seem almost indifferent to companies that move jobs to the suburbs.

In the next few years, thousands of students will graduate from Northeast Ohio's universities. For many of them, the decision to abandon the suburbs has already been made; the choice is no longer between Cleveland and its suburbs, but rather between Cleveland and some other city. If Cleveland's leadership continues to let companies and jobs slip from the city core, Generation Y will become gradually less interested in both Cleveland and "the region."

Rob Pitingolo

Euclid


Nice job Rob!!  I want to send him a message and thank him.  Good to see more young people not afraid to stand up and speak out.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 11:47:38 AM by MuRrAy HiLL »

Offline w28th

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #249 on: September 26, 2008, 11:58:12 AM »
You don't create partnerships by pointing guns at people. If the suburbs can't see the wisdom in working with Cleveland and buy in, then they deserve to die along with it. And they will. Under Ohio's urban policies, once a community gets built out, it's all downhill for them. The only thing communities control is at what speed they will descend.

I'd rather shoot before I've been robbed.  For the hundredth time.

Offline zippo

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #250 on: September 26, 2008, 12:17:59 PM »
I was good friends of the son of a former CEO of Eaton, who was largely responsible for locating the offices at their current location.

He told me how difficult it was for his father to convince his board and  his peers to keep the location downtown, due to the sorry state of Cleveland at that time, but he felt he had a civic duty to see this through and support the city anyway he could.

Many CEO's make the decisions based on very personal reasons, and what works for them, be it a tax issue, a driving issue, whatever.

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #251 on: September 29, 2008, 12:45:58 AM »
Yeah, those 500 jobs lost from the 120,000 downtown is a real killer. It would be nice to have them, but they're not essential. Cleveland still keeps half the income tax and the 100 percent of the revenue from the sale of the land in Highland Hills.

The issue isn't so much the numbers of people lost by Eaton's re-lo to Highland Hills, it's the prestige of losing a corporate HQ of our largest Fortune 500 company; and in a city that has taken far more than its share hits from corp HQ losses (by out of region/state relocation, closure, etc) and job losses than most major cities.  And it's certainly not a death blow to downtown to lose Eaton, but it's a solid boot to the solar plexus re all the positive things we're attempting to accomplish downtown: the med mart/cc, the growth of high-density housing, restaurant & retail, esp lower Euclid, yada-yada-yada.   Also, I'm guessing that since the availability of a 'campus' has been such an issue, it seems Eaton's planning on consolidating other units at it's HQ location, wherever that may end up being.  The end result being we may not just losing those jobs in the current Eaton Center, but the potential of adding many more to downtown – that is to say, a huge opportunity cost to downtown.

…. The “suburbs don’t need Cleveland” is one of the dumbest, counterproductive invectives leveled at cities, esp Cleveland.  It’s really a waste of time trying to argue with those who hold such views.  Cleveland.com is their natural home.

Offline KJP

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #252 on: September 29, 2008, 05:14:17 AM »
The issue isn't so much the numbers of people lost by Eaton's re-lo to Highland Hills, it's the prestige of losing a corporate HQ of our largest Fortune 500 company;

So you're saying it's style over substance?

Quote
The “suburbs don’t need Cleveland” is one of the dumbest, counterproductive invectives leveled at cities, esp Cleveland.  It’s really a waste of time trying to argue with those who hold such views.  Cleveland.com is their natural home.

I guess some of us here keep hoping that people are smarter than that and can be educated to our way of thinking. As hopeful people and supporters of Greater Cleveland, we have to believe that.

BTW, discussing whether Cleveland will lose prestige in addition to jobs is fine for this thread. But the continued debate on whether the suburbs and Cleveland need each other should be discussed at:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,3595.0.html

Or, in general at:
http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,7292.0.html
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 05:26:08 AM by KJP »
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Offline McCleveland

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #253 on: October 01, 2008, 07:39:14 AM »
OK... I think a lot of people needed to do a lot of venting after this very controversial announcement of a proposed move for this company.  At this point how about we refrain from further posts until we have some more NEWS to report on the topic... And if anyone has anything further to say regarding off topic personal comments I suggest using the PM button.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 07:48:22 AM by McCleveland »

Offline MayDay

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #254 on: October 01, 2008, 08:07:18 AM »

Offline FrqntFlyr

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #255 on: October 05, 2008, 09:07:58 AM »
Strong editorial in the PD:

How Cleveland fumbled away Eaton Corp. - Brent Larkin

In a span of less than 10 months, four Fortune 500 companies have seriously contemplated abandoning major Ohio cities.

More at:

http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer/stories/index.ssf?/base/opinion/122310923655540.xml&coll=2
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 02:59:59 PM by FrqntFlyr »

Offline mrnyc

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #256 on: October 05, 2008, 09:48:41 AM »
well, there is a difference between being a gentleman and being a stealth mayor. an eaton dream campus on some of that port authority land and whatever other parcels nearby might have been do-able under a stronger mayor's leadership.

Offline KJP

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #257 on: October 05, 2008, 08:21:35 PM »
I thought that column was way off base (it's was a column expressing Brent Larkin's opinion, not an editorial expressing the Plain Dealer's opinion). No company should kept at any cost. Eaton's HQ has fewer than 500 employees, yet they would have turned a part of the lakefront into a private, suburban campus rather than a dense, walkable, mixed-use neighborhood. The former would have precluded the latter. For fewer than 500 employees, I don't think that was worth losing. And since Cleveland will get a portion of the income taxes from Eaton and revenue from the sale of land, I don't see how Cleveland is losing all that much here.
"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who writes the laws." -- Mayer Amschel Rothschild, founder of the European banking dynasty.

Online Oldmanladyluck

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #258 on: October 05, 2008, 08:22:03 PM »
I can honestly say that the mayor has had my support until this announced move. It is clear that there was leadership missing, which is the leadership that the citizens of the city elect the mayor to hold.

Offline jam40jeff

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #259 on: October 05, 2008, 08:59:27 PM »
I can honestly say that the mayor has had my support until this announced move. It is clear that there was leadership missing, which is the leadership that the citizens of the city elect the mayor to hold.

What should he have done?  Given away taxes to Eaton and then had to face every other company asking for the same thing?  Given them prime lakefront land for a pice of sh1t office park?

As I said before, screw Eaton, Beachwood can have their 500 employees and suburb-loving management.  Some day I'm sure they'll all regret moving to a fad of a suburb.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2008, 09:00:06 PM by jam40jeff »

Offline jpop

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #260 on: October 05, 2008, 09:46:48 PM »
I thought that column was way off base (it's was a column expressing Brent Larkin's opinion, not an editorial expressing the Plain Dealer's opinion). No company should kept at any cost. Eaton's HQ has fewer than 500 employees, yet they would have turned a part of the lakefront into a private, suburban campus rather than a dense, walkable, mixed-use neighborhood. The former would have precluded the latter. For fewer than 500 employees, I don't think that was worth losing. And since Cleveland will get a portion of the income taxes from Eaton and revenue from the sale of land, I don't see how Cleveland is losing all that much here.

I totally agree.

Cleveland has this poverty mentality that it needs to get out of, otherwise it's going to constantly be bullied by companies that think they can do whatever they want to get what they want because Cleveland is so desperate to keep them. It's ridiculous.

Offline MyTwoSense

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #261 on: October 05, 2008, 10:04:26 PM »
I thought that column was way off base (it's was a column expressing Brent Larkin's opinion, not an editorial expressing the Plain Dealer's opinion). No company should kept at any cost. Eaton's HQ has fewer than 500 employees, yet they would have turned a part of the lakefront into a private, suburban campus rather than a dense, walkable, mixed-use neighborhood. The former would have precluded the latter. For fewer than 500 employees, I don't think that was worth losing. And since Cleveland will get a portion of the income taxes from Eaton and revenue from the sale of land, I don't see how Cleveland is losing all that much here.

I totally agree.

Cleveland has this poverty mentality that it needs to get out of, otherwise it's going to constantly be bullied by companies that think they can do whatever they want to get what they want because Cleveland is so desperate to keep them. It's ridiculous.

I think, YOU think, we have a poverty mentality and not living here you cant accurately speak to that.  It's really unfair that you have this reoccurring theme about the city.  Yes, we all have our own opinions, but I think you're opinion is some what exaggerated.

What proof do you have, that backs up your claim, that Cleveland is more desperate than DC, Boston, Miami, Newark or Houston?

Offline KJP

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #262 on: October 05, 2008, 11:14:10 PM »
Sorry MTS, but Cleveland does have a poverty mentality. It is widespread and touches on many issues, not just job retention. It astonishes me when some residents complain that new development in their neighborhood will cause their property values to rise and force them out. Others question the need for funding incentives for development when social service needs are so great. Kucinich's complaints that the Euclid Corridor was a waste of money because it has caused too much disruption to the city, and bus service to move the poor and elderly are supposedly ignored. I've heard these gripes and more. It's astonishing.

We don't need this poverty mentality to extend to decisions on whether to keep all businesses here at any price. Had we given Eaton more incentives to stay, then you'd hear complaints that this is corporate welfare at the expense of those who actually need welfare.
"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who writes the laws." -- Mayer Amschel Rothschild, founder of the European banking dynasty.

Offline jpop

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #263 on: October 06, 2008, 12:02:37 AM »
I thought that column was way off base (it's was a column expressing Brent Larkin's opinion, not an editorial expressing the Plain Dealer's opinion). No company should kept at any cost. Eaton's HQ has fewer than 500 employees, yet they would have turned a part of the lakefront into a private, suburban campus rather than a dense, walkable, mixed-use neighborhood. The former would have precluded the latter. For fewer than 500 employees, I don't think that was worth losing. And since Cleveland will get a portion of the income taxes from Eaton and revenue from the sale of land, I don't see how Cleveland is losing all that much here.

I totally agree.

Cleveland has this poverty mentality that it needs to get out of, otherwise it's going to constantly be bullied by companies that think they can do whatever they want to get what they want because Cleveland is so desperate to keep them. It's ridiculous.

I think, YOU think, we have a poverty mentality and not living here you cant accurately speak to that.  It's really unfair that you have this reoccurring theme about the city.  Yes, we all have our own opinions, but I think you're opinion is some what exaggerated.

What proof do you have, that backs up your claim, that Cleveland is more desperate than DC, Boston, Miami, Newark or Houston?

The key word here is MENTALITY. People are constantly looking at the glass as half empty in Cleveland. That viewpoint needs to change.

Also, I think I'm pretty knowledgeable in the things of Cleveland. I lived there for the vast majority of my life. And I'm sorry to say, by and large MTS, things haven't changed all that much. You'd like to think so, but I'd like to say you're mostly wrong. Yes, things are showing signs of improvement, but the things that have kept Cleveland down for decades are still there, and I have seen very little improvement in those areas. One of those areas is an unwillingness to get over this negative, poverty mentality. It's a horrible disease, I think. It rots the city inside out.

Offline redbrick

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #264 on: October 06, 2008, 12:54:50 AM »
Look, fact is Larkin is old school and he has had a prominent spot in the local print media at least since the 60's if not earlier... He likes to tweak the powers that be on occasion but more often than not he goes along and along and along...

I give credit to the port on this and Wasserman -- an outsider. Many in this city, and even on this board, were willing to accept the Eaton "campus" as part of FEB but that campus would not have been the highest and best use of that port land period. You cannot argue that. Forget about the railrod tracks, the RTA WFL loop, these are obstacles that have been dealt with in other cities of much less size and stature than Cleveland.

If the port vacates and sells that land as the long term plan dictates, the expectation has to be a world class lakefront neighborhood, nothing less. What Eaton wanted was 180 degrees from that.

Offline MyTwoSense

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #265 on: October 06, 2008, 06:16:31 AM »
KJP & Jpop-tart.  I hear you.

But the examples you site are not unique to Cleveland.

OK...I don't want this to get off topic.  :wink:

Offline jpop

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #266 on: October 06, 2008, 06:52:28 AM »
Look, fact is Larkin is old school and he has had a prominent spot in the local print media at least since the 60's if not earlier... He likes to tweak the powers that be on occasion but more often than not he goes along and along and along...

I give credit to the port on this and Wasserman -- an outsider. Many in this city, and even on this board, were willing to accept the Eaton "campus" as part of FEB but that campus would not have been the highest and best use of that port land period. You cannot argue that. Forget about the railrod tracks, the RTA WFL loop, these are obstacles that have been dealt with in other cities of much less size and stature than Cleveland.

If the port vacates and sells that land as the long term plan dictates, the expectation has to be a world class lakefront neighborhood, nothing less. What Eaton wanted was 180 degrees from that.

I agree. I'm hoping for much better for that site now that Eaton won't be wanting their bullshit suburban campus squeezed into a prime downtown urban spot. I really hope they're not still planning to go ahead with the same designs for that spot because I personally think much better could happen for that area.

Offline willyboy

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #267 on: October 06, 2008, 08:42:22 AM »
"What proof do you have, that backs up your claim, that Cleveland is more desperate than DC, Boston, Miami, Newark or Houston."

I don't think there is any question that Cleveland is more desperate than many of these places.  I know here in DC companies are moving here like crazy, they don't even really have to offer crazy incentives to get them here (even though I think Cleveland wins with regard to quality of life issues).  DC also has a huge, young talent pool, and everything seems to just play off of each other and the city has been growing like crazy. 

"From the outset, Eaton's desire for a campus setting downtown posed a square peg-round hole dilemma".

This is very true though.  When they decided they had to have a campus it sort of gave Cleveland a huge disadvantage (by campus it apparently wouldn't have been acceptable to have a spot in gloomy midtown :roll:) and they certainly were not interested in the Stark proposal which would have been ideal.

I also give Wasserman credit here, since Eaton wanted the Flats space to be something that it really wasn't, and I also thought in the long run it wasn't really the best use.       

Offline sir2gees

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #268 on: October 06, 2008, 09:08:50 AM »
Over the weekend I had an interesting conversation with my parents about this topic. My parents are baby boomers. For the most part, my parents are hip and progressive, and very rarely do we disagree on topics like this. However, this topic led to long debate about urbanism in Cleveland. My parents really didn't see what the big deal was. My mom said, "Eaton is only moving to Beachwood...it's probably better for their employees." I was shocked. I explained the idea of keeping the core city strong and developing a culture that will attract and retain young talent. My parents looked at me like I was crazy. My dad said "when you have a family you want care about a cool urbanism." Again, I was totally shocked. Then I realized this is the problem with Eaton's short-sighted decision. This may be a general statement, but it seems baby boomers don't understand this new trend toward urbanism. Moreover, my parents didn't really understand the importance of creating a culture that will attract and retain young talent.  My parents raised me to be open-minded and forward thinking. This was the first time in my life I looked at my parents as old.

Offline mj1403

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Re: Eaton Corp. new office location
« Reply #269 on: October 06, 2008, 09:12:57 AM »
I also give Wasserman credit here, since Eaton wanted the Flats space to be something that it really wasn't, and I also thought in the long run it wasn't really the best use.       

I completely agree.  I really don't understand how people (Mr Larkin) can be turning this back on the city or the port.  Eaton wanted something that shouldn't happen, a suburban office park on prime lakefront property.  If Eaton really wanted to improve the community of downtown Cleveland they would have found a way to make this work by comprising.  Apparently their suburban complex was something they couldn't comprise on, so they are gone.  I blame this on Eaton!  Don't let the door hit your a$$ on the way out!