Author Topic: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News  (Read 64661 times)

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Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3660 on: May 08, 2018, 03:46:46 PM »
@taestell got any drone shots of the block in question?






Offline jwulsin

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3661 on: May 08, 2018, 04:24:36 PM »
^in those first two angled shots, you can see the demo work being done behind Weilert's which wrapped up towards the end of last summer. I really hope 3CDC moves ahead with renovating Weilert's as quickly as possible.


Online ucgrady

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3662 on: May 08, 2018, 04:29:48 PM »
That space is really large, and there is enough room to place a two bay garage the same dimensions as Mercer's Garage and still keep some of the old Weilert's Beer garden space. I would love to see some sort of outdoor beer garden brought back to that location and not a three bay parking garage that fills the whole middle of the block.

Online Cincy513

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3663 on: May 08, 2018, 04:39:31 PM »
God I hope we get a German themed beer hall in Weilert's.  Making that building anything else just wouldn't seem right, 

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3664 on: May 08, 2018, 04:46:25 PM »
That space is really large, and there is enough room to place a two bay garage the same dimensions as Mercer's Garage and still keep some of the old Weilert's Beer garden space. I would love to see some sort of outdoor beer garden brought back to that location and not a three bay parking garage that fills the whole middle of the block.

It's an unusual block since there is no center alley or narrow street. Perhaps there was an east-west alley that was filled in for the Kroger. 

They could bisect the block east/west with a new narrow street along the south edge of the current Kroger.  That would free up the design to allow windows if not front doors along the new street.  It would also break the development up into two halves that could be phased and then sold as different properties in the future.   

Offline Ram23

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3665 on: May 08, 2018, 06:41:49 PM »
^ It looks like there were never any alleys, which seems to have resulted in the interior of the block never really being utilized for anything spectacular:

https://i.imgur.com/H5cbz1Q.png

It housed the beer garden, a carousel/swimming pool, circus storage, and a few stables and undertakers (in the same building - google tells me this was common!).  By the last edition, the horses had been replaced by cars for the most part - the Kroger lot was a car dealership and the lots on Walnut were already parking:

https://i.imgur.com/p0pykuM.png

Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3666 on: May 08, 2018, 07:06:26 PM »
That space is really large, and there is enough room to place a two bay garage the same dimensions as Mercer's Garage and still keep some of the old Weilert's Beer garden space. I would love to see some sort of outdoor beer garden brought back to that location and not a three bay parking garage that fills the whole middle of the block.

They have lot of options due to how much space they have to work with. In my attached graphic, I cloned One Mercer (yellow rectangle) and the Mercer Garage (red rectangle). As you can see, they have enough room to build that facing Walnut without needing to demolish any buildings. However, I suspect they will want the garage to have entrances/exits off of Vine so will put it somewhere more like the blue rectangle.

Offline cincity

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3667 on: May 08, 2018, 07:28:48 PM »
The most significant structure/attraction in this whole area was the old Turners Gym. Turners was the hub of German life when OtR reflected its namesake. When the building was vacated by the Turners in the 50's it became the hub of Appalachian life, right up until it was demolished in 1974. The place was utterly amazing, reeking of history and mystery, it was a fortress of dungeon like basements, mysterious hidden upper levels, and a cavernous gymnasium. In my mind it is one of the most unfortunate demolitions in the history of the neighborhood. If there is not some reference to the part it played in OtR's history, well then, that would just be tragic.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3668 on: May 08, 2018, 08:04:16 PM »
The most significant structure/attraction in this whole area was the old Turners Gym. Turners was the hub of German life when OtR reflected its namesake. When the building was vacated by the Turners in the 50's it became the hub of Appalachian life, right up until it was demolished in 1974. The place was utterly amazing, reeking of history and mystery, it was a fortress of dungeon like basements, mysterious hidden upper levels, and a cavernous gymnasium. In my mind it is one of the most unfortunate demolitions in the history of the neighborhood. If there is not some reference to the part it played in OtR's history, well then, that would just be tragic.

A new fall compliment to Bockfest could be held, Turnfest.  Like Turnfest '18.  It could be like Number Fest in Athens. 

http://digital.libraries.uc.edu/exhibits/arb/turnfest/turnfest3.php




Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3669 on: May 08, 2018, 08:04:54 PM »
The most significant structure/attraction in this whole area was the old Turners Gym. Turners was the hub of German life when OtR reflected its namesake. When the building was vacated by the Turners in the 50's it became the hub of Appalachian life, right up until it was demolished in 1974. The place was utterly amazing, reeking of history and mystery, it was a fortress of dungeon like basements, mysterious hidden upper levels, and a cavernous gymnasium. In my mind it is one of the most unfortunate demolitions in the history of the neighborhood. If there is not some reference to the part it played in OtR's history, well then, that would just be tragic.

A new fall compliment to Bockfest could be held, Turnfest.  Like Turnfest '18.  It could be like Number Fest in Athens. 

http://digital.libraries.uc.edu/exhibits/arb/turnfest/turnfest3.php





There could be feats of strength.  And airings of grievances. 

Offline cincity

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3670 on: May 08, 2018, 10:57:17 PM »
I don't know what should be done, I just don't want the history of this location to be forgotten, it has to be highlighted somehow. The old Turner's Gym building was simply massive. I sat on the rooftop of the garage portion of that building behind Wielert's (I don't recall what it was) and watched the demolition. Even as a 10 year old punk kid I realized the important piece of history being lost. 

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3671 on: May 09, 2018, 01:07:05 AM »
3CDC has moved the King's Court barber shop from Court to the 1400 block of Race:




Incidentally, not "The King" (the Elvis impersonator) barber, but his old partner (whose name I can't remember) used to cut hair at the shop in the lobby of the Metropole.  The guy drove a gigantic green Cadillac that was usually parked where the 21C Valet is now.  The shop was the only store in the lobby...there was a security guard to get upstairs.  The shop itself was noteworthy for having shelves stocked with years' worth of Playboy magazines.  This is also back when the Phoenix Cafe was cranking at full power and teamed with the Metropole in its drug and prostitution business.  So you'd be there getting your hair cut watching the guys in line look at Playboys with a never-ending cascade of sleazy characters traveling through the Metropole lobby. 

Offline troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3672 on: May 17, 2018, 09:19:24 PM »
So I noticed the green building on vine next to Kroger has a new sign with a bright red banner saying, “Coming Soon, 4K square feet space.” By 3cdc.

I thought this rehab project wouldn’t be happening so soon by 3cdc, but I’m glad if it does!


Online thebillshark

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3674 on: May 19, 2018, 11:50:10 AM »
I made some diagrams for the OTR Kroger Block featuring a new east-west cross street and an underground garage.  The block is quite large for OTR, 400' east-west and 350' north-south, so bisecting it with a cross street as @jmecklenborg suggested would work rather well.  A 40' wide street (enough for a two way with parking on one side and 6' sidewalks) could be added yielding a 150'x 400' block and a 160'x 400' block (for comparison the block of 14th, 15th, Republic and Vine is about 175' x 380', oriented in the other direction.)

The new street could be named Turner Street in a nod to Turner Hall which used to stand on this block as @cincity stated above. (14.5 Street could be an alternate name if you wanted to make it sound "high-tech" for start-ups.)

A three bay, 180'x200' underground garage could fit in the middle of the block under the new street and two new office buildings.  I estimate a this could fit about a hundred cars per level, so a three level garage would yield about 300 spaces.  A new alley to 15th street could provide access from the garage to the new 3CDC office development on the corner and future development on 15th and Moore streets.

There would be space along Walnut as well as on 15th for residential infill.

Finally, there would also be space for a beer garden in back of Wielert's in a nod to the impact that establishment had on our city's history.  (In my plan, I did not make it a huge space like it was historically, I think it would be rather risky to do that and compete against other establishments that are already providing outdoor beergarden-like space.)

Thanks @taestell for letting me use his pictures as a basis for these diagrams. 

Underground garage outline:



Potential Infill:

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« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 11:52:51 AM by thebillshark »

Offline jwulsin

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3675 on: May 19, 2018, 12:43:23 PM »
^That'd be awesome. Probably very expensive, and considering how hard it is to finance *above* ground parking garages, I'm not confident 3CDC (or anybody) would be able to convince a bank to finance the costs of an underground garage. So the City would have to find a way to foot the bill for the street and garage.

Online IAGuy39

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3676 on: May 19, 2018, 12:57:50 PM »
Bill, I love this idea, and actually love the 14.5 street name for the tech scene! Would be great for them to build this as you designed due to the sheer amount of extra office space it could add and would be perfect for tech / branding offices. That said like what jwulsin mentioned, probably guessing it would be too expensive but you never know if a rising company wants to build a mini-campus in the heart of the neighborhood this could be an option, especially if they got a tech company to move from San Fran or something, the cost would be tiny compared to what they pay already.

Offline jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3677 on: May 19, 2018, 03:18:40 PM »
^Bill, that's pretty much what I had in mind.  I like the street name, too. 

Underground garages are more expensive than elevated ones, but 3CDC has already built two of them - one beneath Washington Park and the other at Ziegler. 

Online thebillshark

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3678 on: May 19, 2018, 04:29:02 PM »
The garage is on the smallish side so the construction cost per space would probably be high. If you flipped it 90 degrees, it’s longer so you may be able to fit more spaces, but then the entrances would get complicated as well as possibly having more complications supporting the buildings above (that’s my guess at least, I’m not that kind of engineer, but as pictured the garage columns would line up with the walls of the buildings for the most part.) They only have one shot at this block for the next 50-100 years, so might as well spend the money on an option that builds on the neighborhood’s natural scale and walkability by opening up the interior of the block.

EDIT: another thing I like about it is there could be 4 other stand alone infill structures on the block that aren’t tied to the fate of the parking garage. That’s good for granularity. (As opposed to all the new buildings serving as parking garage wrap)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 04:37:59 PM by thebillshark »

Online IAGuy39

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3679 on: May 31, 2018, 10:35:22 AM »
Some cool projects on here, I think at least one is 3CDC:

1537 Race Street which includes the building which spans across the block to Pleasant Street

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/june-4-2018-staff-report-and-attachments/

Offline jwulsin

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3680 on: May 31, 2018, 11:24:11 AM »
Some cool projects on here, I think at least one is 3CDC:

1537 Race Street which includes the building which spans across the block to Pleasant Street

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/june-4-2018-staff-report-and-attachments/

Very cool. Lots of neat projects in that packet. Related to the 1537-1539 project, there is site work happening right now on the north side of that building for a surface parking lot. I'm disappointed to see that big space turned over to surface parking. And with no progress on the Liberty St narrowing... it makes me even less confident that we'll ever see Liberty significantly narrowed.

Online IAGuy39

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3681 on: May 31, 2018, 11:44:17 AM »
I know they are building a surface lot there now but I thought I had read at some point that it would be temporary but maybe I am mixing up convos on here with actual news articles.

I bet if they do the narrowing on Liberty 3CDC will look to redevelopment the lot.

I bet we would know more if they pour solid concrete or if they simply go with rock grade and asphalt on top.

Online thebillshark

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3682 on: May 31, 2018, 12:15:54 PM »
^yes the lot was presented as temporary. They are spending $400-$500k on it as i recall so they will probably want to make that back at least. Which (me speculating) they might be able to do in 2-3 years which is probably how long it would that to get a new plan for the site going anyway depending on what happens to Liberty Street. If we don’t have action (project put out for bid) on Liberty Street by this fall I think the Liberty Street Safety Improvement project is in jeopardy.

Offline troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3683 on: June 04, 2018, 10:09:24 PM »
Do we know what is going on with the Columbia building on walnut st? Earllier in the year I saw 3cdc doing a lot of work, but I guess it was just for stabilization? They’ve since stopped any work from what I can tell...

Offline troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3684 on: June 05, 2018, 12:36:21 AM »
In regards to liberty st diet, the city website still says bids will be open for fall 2018 bid and 2019 spring start.

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/dote/dote-projects/liberty-street-safety-improvement-study/

It also says that the majority of the funding is in place...is there any reason to be concerned that something is amiss??

Offline jwulsin

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3685 on: June 05, 2018, 08:46:34 AM »
In regards to liberty st diet, the city website still says bids will be open for fall 2018 bid and 2019 spring start.

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/dote/dote-projects/liberty-street-safety-improvement-study/

It also says that the majority of the funding is in place...is there any reason to be concerned that something is amiss??
Well, the fact that DOTE hasn't updated that page since November is worrying. It still talks about the "next meeting" (future tense) of OTR Community Council being in November 2017.

Here are few photos showing the new surface parking lot that 3CDC is building at the corner of Liberty and Race. They're putting in concrete curbs and concrete pedestals for lighting, which makes me think they don't have any immediate plans (in less than 5 years) for this space other than surface parking:



Online jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3686 on: June 05, 2018, 08:51:48 AM »
That stuff is required for a new parking lot to be built. I wouldn't think anything of it since it's just them meeting the needs of the lot they've stated is temporary. They're very likely waiting for the road diet to build a new garage somewhere in the area (Kroger) so this can be redeveloped to its fullest at that time.

Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3687 on: June 05, 2018, 08:55:19 AM »
3CDC has several large projects — former KFC/cell phone store at Liberty & Elm, former Kroger on Vine, Rosco/Meiners/Wielert's buildings on Vine, multiple projects on Court Street, and 4th & Race — that will probably all happen before this lot is redeveloped. So I would guess it'll be at least 5 years. They will probably also want to get a garage built somewhere nearby before developing this lot — probably as part of the KFC development.

Online IAGuy39

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3688 on: June 05, 2018, 08:56:59 AM »
Yeah I'm with jmicha on this one, I don't think it's anything to be alarmed at.  They would probably need to due to zoning codes put in the concrete curbs and light posts.  Concrete is expensive but they can jack hammer that out at some point.  I bet they make their $ back pretty quick on this lot, in the next few years before adding on.

Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: 3CDC Development and News
« Reply #3689 on: June 05, 2018, 08:57:45 AM »
In regards to liberty st diet, the city website still says bids will be open for fall 2018 bid and 2019 spring start.

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/dote/dote-projects/liberty-street-safety-improvement-study/

It also says that the majority of the funding is in place...is there any reason to be concerned that something is amiss??

I think DOTE is stretched thin and probably doesn't have someone focusing on updating their website. The Main Street Safety Improvement page still says "spring 2018" even though it's now summer 2018 and it hasn't happened yet. The city moves slow on stuff like this.