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Author Topic: Cleveland: Campus District  (Read 1500 times)

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Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #60 on: December 03, 2013, 04:23:27 PM »
I think this project is really exciting.  I might not like the design of the other dorms, but I fully appreciate what they have done for CSU and that stretch of Euclid.  This would give the campus another residential bookend and really add to some more life to the street.

It is the entrance which creates the deathtrap... if I understand the concern correctly

I didn't really make my point clear. The renderings don't show any entrances (for cars or people) around the garage, making the entire area a deadzone. Even garage entrances would be better than nothing.

Nor did I.  We are confusing the UO lingo of "pedestrian deadzone" and "pedestrian deathtrap".  No use of the wall creates the deadzone.  But a garage entrance creates a deathtrap, with vehicles plowing down pedestrians while entering/exiting the garage.  I didn't understand the distinction either until the casino garage discussion..... and of course I'm being a smarta&& about the whole thing.

Offline MuRrAy HiLL

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #61 on: December 03, 2013, 10:53:43 PM »
Who's owns the parking lot in the foreground?  Perhaps this Playhouse Square Building could be saved if the dorms wrap more around the back.

http://media.cleveland.com/business_impact/photo/1725-euclid-sw-aerial-2013-12-03jpg-db1118db5fd19448.jpg

And ironically, an article on the importance of historic preservation by CSU: http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2013/12/integrating_the_legacy_of_the.html
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 10:58:54 PM by MuRrAy HiLL »

Offline FrqntFlyr

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #62 on: December 03, 2013, 11:44:22 PM »
Who's owns the parking lot in the foreground?  Perhaps this Playhouse Square Building could be saved if the dorms wrap more around the back.

http://media.cleveland.com/business_impact/photo/1725-euclid-sw-aerial-2013-12-03jpg-db1118db5fd19448.jpg

It looks like Victory Properties, which appears to be affiliated with Shaia's Parking.  The same entity owns the garage on the other side of 17th.

http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:0::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:429115
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 11:48:45 PM by FrqntFlyr »

Offline urb-a-saurus

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2013, 10:39:33 AM »
Looks like a bland, institutional box.  It's the long flat roof line, like Uptown phase 1, with less flair, and a squared off corner instead of a curve.  I agree that it would be better to have less, but taller frontage on Euclid, and more building on E 18th, thereby creating more variety and saving the PHS building.


Offline 8ShadesofGray

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #64 on: December 04, 2013, 10:57:21 AM »
Regardless of the aesthetics of the property or its ground-level uses (or lack thereof), I PRAY that we verify all financing is in place before there's even a hint of a wrecking ball showing up. Given their timetable, it sounds like they have funds in hand, but Planning, please let's check :D

This property already sits across the street from the little used greenspace next to Levin, and the requested demos open up a sightline of an immense amount of existing surface parking ... Walking across East 18th on the south side of Euclid, you would have a big swath of green to the north, and to the south, you could see surface parking all the way to East 14th and Sumner ... a quarter-mile of parking only interrupted by road!!! If this project starts to fill in some of those lots and fronts the streets, bully for us. But if this falls through post-demo, or just gets tied up for a few years while the developers navigate layered financing, it would be a huge blow to an intersection that otherwise stands to benefit from increasing pedestrian cross-traffic between PlayhouseSquare and CSU (opposite placemaking by PlayhouseSquare).

Offline 8ShadesofGray

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2013, 11:03:33 AM »
Also, is it just me, or does this building look unusually short for 8 stories? It looks significantly shorter in the rendering than the 1900 building, which I think is 8 stories, and about the same height as the business school, which has got to be, what, like 6 maybe? Maybe it's just my 3-D challenged mind :)
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 11:03:49 AM by 8ShadesofGray »

Offline Oldmanladyluck

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #66 on: December 04, 2013, 11:21:30 AM »
And... Prospect Ave. unfortunately continues to be one of the bastard step-children of downtown.  How many parking garages and surface parking lots have to front Prospect?  Just sayin'... I think the street deserves better.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 11:22:36 AM by Oldmanladyluck »

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #67 on: December 04, 2013, 11:24:56 AM »
This is on the City Planning Commission's docket for Friday:
http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2013/12062013/index.php

Here are most of the renders published by CPC (others, including site plans, are at the link above):





















America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline SixthCity

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #68 on: December 04, 2013, 11:37:22 AM »
This may be a silly question but we keep on hearing how the downtown market cannot yet support the cost of new construction.  Yet this project and even the Mariner's Watch project on Detroit are completely privately financed projects complete with garages and other big ticket stuff (pool on the roof of the campus district project).  So....is this noise about the Cleveland market being too depressed to support new construction incorrect/overblown?

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #69 on: December 04, 2013, 11:43:10 AM »
^my first thought is that this is not classic market rate housing.  It is student housing which I imagine has a different financial forumula.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #70 on: December 04, 2013, 11:43:26 AM »
This may be a silly question but we keep on hearing how the downtown market cannot yet support the cost of new construction.  Yet this project and even the Mariner's Watch project on Detroit are completely privately financed projects complete with garages and other big ticket stuff (pool on the roof of the campus district project).  So....is this noise about the Cleveland market being too depressed to support new construction incorrect/overblown?

That's a good topic for general discussion at:
http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24830.0.html

Let's keep the discussion here focused on the merits, design, etc. of specific Campus District projects such as 1750 Euclid.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. -- Abraham Lincoln.

Offline jhonopolis

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #71 on: December 04, 2013, 11:47:42 AM »
@SixthCity, I think, at least for the CSU one, that student housing can demand higher prices as they stick more people into one unit. A four bedroom apartment is common around campuses and rent for a lot, but those same units would make no sense for the general public. Its the same reason you see apartments like this around other campuses, like Kent State.

Edit: posted this without refreshing the page. Missed KJP's post.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 11:48:51 AM by ClevelandOhio »

Offline SixthCity

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #72 on: December 04, 2013, 11:52:42 AM »
@SixthCity, I think, at least for the CSU one, that student housing can demand higher prices as they stick more people into one unit. A four bedroom apartment is common around campuses and rent for a lot, but those same units would make no sense for the general public. Its the same reason you see apartments like this around other campuses, like Kent State.

Edit: posted this without refreshing the page. Missed KJP's post.

Thanks

Offline Mendo

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #73 on: December 04, 2013, 11:52:52 AM »
All I hear are excuses about rehab and renovation costs. Meanwhile, dozens of century old buildings were rehabbed into successful apartments. Obsolete office space? Maybe, but it would make decent apartments.

They are demolishing the Playhouse Square Building so they make a useless courtyard in the middle of the apartment building. How about leaving the 4 story portion along Euclid and demolish the 1 story back portion along Brownell Ct? Put the courtyard where the current 1 story section is (that you cannot see from the street).

That would make everybody happy. The historic building fronting Euclid with ground-floor retail gets to survive. The new apartment building can then fill the entire space where the JCF building currently is.

Offline FerrariEnzo

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #74 on: December 04, 2013, 12:11:56 PM »
Trade a non used office building with deep recesses in the middle of downtown (and surface lot) for a pretty decent 500 person development?  All day. 

Offline willyboy

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #75 on: December 04, 2013, 01:57:09 PM »
All I hear are excuses about rehab and renovation costs. Meanwhile, dozens of century old buildings were rehabbed into successful apartments. Obsolete office space? Maybe, but it would make decent apartments.

They are demolishing the Playhouse Square Building so they make a useless courtyard in the middle of the apartment building. How about leaving the 4 story portion along Euclid and demolish the 1 story back portion along Brownell Ct? Put the courtyard where the current 1 story section is (that you cannot see from the street).

That would make everybody happy. The historic building fronting Euclid with ground-floor retail gets to survive. The new apartment building can then fill the entire space where the JCF building currently is.

I walked by the Play House Square building this morning and it is really a beautiful building, so I will be very upset if they tear this one down. 

It is ironic because I saw Kathleen C. from the Cleveland Restoration Society posted yesterdays PD story by  Dr. Ryberg-Webster, the assistant professor of urban studies at the Levin College of Urban Affairs.  The story is regarding the Ameritrust Building and preserving Cleveland's heritage for the future, adaptive re-use and mentions a historic preservation conference here next year.  So ironic, and right across from the building that houses the historic preservation and urban affairs program.

Obsolete is what old buildings become which is why the term "adaptive re-use" exists.       
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 01:58:18 PM by willyboy »

Offline jhonopolis

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #76 on: December 04, 2013, 02:13:33 PM »
^ It ironic that Cleveland State has anything to do with historic preservation when you look at their actions up to today.

Offline willyboy

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #77 on: December 04, 2013, 02:17:29 PM »
^ It ironic that Cleveland State has anything to do with historic preservation when you look at their actions up to today.

I mentioned that on their blog as well.  Perhaps Dr. Ryberg-Webster should be writing about that.   

Offline Htsguy

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #78 on: December 04, 2013, 02:18:22 PM »
^are you including this project?  They have nothing to do with it.

Offline willyboy

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #79 on: December 04, 2013, 02:26:44 PM »
No, we realize that.  We are talking about Cleveland's recent poor record with historic preservation.   

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #80 on: December 04, 2013, 03:00:10 PM »
Positives - more students living downtown, more foot traffic on Euclid, more customers for the local businesses, a relatiely unused corner of the intersection on the edge of PHS gets put to good use

Negatives - we may lose a building that most of us barely knew existed or took much notice of prior to this proposal

This is why I don't visit the demo thread..... the glass half empty attitude is overwhelming and unfortunately plays into a lot of the negative stereotypes people have of our City.

Offline StapHanger

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #81 on: December 04, 2013, 04:00:12 PM »
I certainly knew that building existed and am disappointed to see it go. Not surprised, though, given that our surface lots are probably more valuable than most of the small buildings in our crap real estate market.

Another negative: no storefronts facing Euclid. It's one thing to naively hope for storefronts on the ground floor of every far flung parking garage or whatever, but I'm legitimately surprised the developers aren't proposing any retail space to house complementary commercial tenants for a building housing 500 students. Most of that Euclid frontage could end up being pretty dead unless they plan to put a gym or other high-activity common space on the ground floor there.

Offline YO to the CLE

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #82 on: December 04, 2013, 04:25:27 PM »
When has it been determined that there are no storefronts on Euclid? I think that was just speculation on this board based on a rendering from far away.

Offline metrocity

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #83 on: December 04, 2013, 04:32:37 PM »
^This is in the comment section by the writer of the article:

Quote
Hi askajak -

Thanks for commenting. I did ask Rob Lochner about ground-floor retail space. His response was that Clayco is "singularly focused" on the residential experience at this property. He also pointed out that there are vacant storefronts nearby.

That said, I won't be surprised if the question comes up at one of the public meetings this week.

Michelle
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 01:23:46 AM by metrocity »

Offline urb-a-saurus

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #84 on: December 04, 2013, 05:23:33 PM »
Today, I drove by something similar under construction in downtown Akron.  Depot Akron, to be ready for next fall.  It is within walking distance of the university and has a similar long, low, full block shape.

Offline yanni_gogolak

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #85 on: December 06, 2013, 09:03:28 AM »
Today, I drove by something similar under construction in downtown Akron.  Depot Akron, to be ready for next fall.  It is within walking distance of the university and has a similar long, low, full block shape.


There is no reason to have retail on the one in Akron now and in the foreseeable future based on location.

As far as the height, 4 stories is as tall as they can go with typical wood framing. Wood framing is used because it is the most affordable.

Offline clvlndr

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #86 on: December 06, 2013, 11:05:55 AM »

Another negative: no storefronts facing Euclid. It's one thing to naively hope for storefronts on the ground floor of every far flung parking garage or whatever, but I'm legitimately surprised the developers aren't proposing any retail space to house complementary commercial tenants for a building housing 500 students. Most of that Euclid frontage could end up being pretty dead unless they plan to put a gym or other high-activity common space on the ground floor there.

I'm surprised and disappointed by this.  This is a substantial development that could serve as a transition/bridge between the campus and PHS.  A large building of this kind could serve as a barrier and not a bridge if it becomes a large 1st floor dead zone, despite the very positive aspect of 500 student residences.   This will be especially true during the substantial periods where CSU is on brake and during the summer when there probably will be few students living in housing...  Let's hope that, since this is just a concept plan at the moment, that with additional comment on this issue developers can "fix" this retail aspect. 

CSU is doing so many things right, and they really have an actual "college town" with foot traffic along Euclid that didn't exist even a year ago... Let's hope they take their time (but not too much time) and get this important project right.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 11:07:08 AM by clvlndr »

Offline jhonopolis

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #87 on: December 06, 2013, 11:13:07 AM »
My fear is that retail spaces seem to have trouble getting filled over there, so the developer doesn't want to have to deal with that and rather have residential units in those spaces. More concerning to me is 668 Euclid Avenue. Now THAT is a major 1st floor dead zone in an area where filling retail spaces shouldn't be as hard!

Offline Foraker

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #88 on: December 06, 2013, 11:36:36 AM »
My fear is that retail spaces seem to have trouble getting filled over there, so the developer doesn't want to have to deal with that and rather have residential units in those spaces.

I understand that concern, as well as the other concerns expressed here about activity on the street.  Let's hope the space is designed to accommodate future conversion to street-level retail.

Offline Clefan98

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Re: Cleveland: Campus District
« Reply #89 on: December 06, 2013, 12:05:24 PM »
Clayco student-housing plan for former Jewish Federation site needs design revisions, boards say


http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2013/12/clayco_student-housing_plan_fo.html#incart_river_default