Author Topic: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)  (Read 139040 times)

CincyPhan, edale, JoeHarmon, CincyIntheKnow, oudd, troeros, Ohio123, jim uber and 35 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5490 on: July 13, 2018, 02:46:59 PM »
When people complain about not having enough parking, they are really complaining about how there is not enough "free" on-street parking. People in the midwest will cruise for the free parking before accepting the meter or the garage.

It would be great if the city instituted variable parking pricing like in San Francisco. Set the current rate as a maximum. I bet it would increase on-street parking usage and encourage more off-peak parking usage.

It's extremely frustrating because I believe our current meters and kiosks can support this type of variable pricing, and it would have been implemented if the Xerox partnership would have went through. After that was cancelled, we still got higher meter rates, we just didn't get the variable pricing which would have been ideal for OTR and Downtown.

Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5491 on: July 13, 2018, 03:28:22 PM »
Well wasnít expecting this:

Cincinnati plan would allow new housing, businesses in OTR without new parking

https://cin.ci/2zuTUCT

Gonna need all urbanist hands on deck to support this one.

Big picture thought on parking minimums: how absurd (and how much hubris is it) is it that we think itís possible to micromanage the parking spaces of thousands of residents, visitors, and downtown workers, with dynamic needs that change over time, that together function as an organic, non-linear system, anyway? No wonder minimums cause market distortions and prevent growth. They are ham-fisted interventionalism.

City Council actually first introduced this change in 2012, but the city administration is just now getting around to implementing it, because Cranley.

Also, I wouldn't quite call it a "done deal" yet. There's some possibility that neighborhood NIMBYs will object and this change won't go through.

If you support the elimination of minimum parking requirements in OTR, you should probably send an email to the address on this postcard.

Yup.

Online jmecklenborg

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5492 on: July 13, 2018, 03:39:38 PM »
When I lived in Cambridge, MA, which has virtually zero off-street parking as most buildings are pre-automobile and built to the rear lot line, each apartment unit, regardless of its bedroom count, received one street parking pass and one visitor pass.  The two types of cars were chalked each day and every visitor pass car had to move every single day or else it got a $75 ticket.  A "resident" pass had to move every other day or else they got a $75 ticket.  The meter maids had a complex chalking system that made it hard to foil by buying your own chalk and mark your own tire. 

In addition to having to move your car pretty much every day, there was weekly street cleaning depending on what "zone" you were in.  There were five zones, so 5 days a week a team of tow trucks fired up at 7am and towed dozens of cars to who-know-where.   

So the goal of all of this wasn't to clean the streets, it was to give the city a way to make owning a car a huge pain in the ass and therefore encourage walking, bicycling, and public transportation.  It's worth mentioning that the city has a fantastic subway line that has been there since 1912, and that John Cranley is undoubtedly familiar with it since his parents paid for him to got to Harvard. 


Online troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5493 on: July 13, 2018, 05:31:26 PM »

Offline Pdrome513

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5494 on: July 18, 2018, 02:19:16 PM »
Fortus has applied for a wrecking permit for the Boys and Girls Club building on Logan Street. They purchased it last year after they joined in on Freeport Row.

https://cagis.hamilton-co.org/opal/apd.aspx?QSPerm=2018P06275


Online SleepyLeroy

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5495 on: July 18, 2018, 02:55:31 PM »
Fortus has applied for a wrecking permit for the Boys and Girls Club building on Logan Street. They purchased it last year after they joined in on Freeport Row.

https://cagis.hamilton-co.org/opal/apd.aspx?QSPerm=2018P06275



A perfect place for a larger than normal (for OTR) development and anything will greatly improve the streetlife in that area. They certainly won the FCC location lottery on this property.

Online jwulsin

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5496 on: July 18, 2018, 02:58:45 PM »
Fortus has applied for a wrecking permit for the Boys and Girls Club building on Logan Street. They purchased it last year after they joined in on Freeport Row.

https://cagis.hamilton-co.org/opal/apd.aspx?QSPerm=2018P06275

Good news! Has anything been released about Fortus's plans for that site?

Online jim uber

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5497 on: July 18, 2018, 03:42:40 PM »
^ +Has anyone heard anything about Fortus's plans for Freeport row? Last I heard they were supposed to start this summer but... nothing yet.

Online troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5498 on: July 18, 2018, 03:58:02 PM »
Iím wondering about that as well...curious if they are planning to change there plans for that site at all? Or maybe, since the liberty street diet is finalized to occur next year, they would want to wait for that?

The lack of movement on that site is curious none the less...

Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5499 on: July 18, 2018, 04:23:23 PM »
The Liberty Street road diet won't modify the north side of the street, so there is no real reason for that development to wait for it.

Offline JYP

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5500 on: July 18, 2018, 05:17:20 PM »
Last I heard it was still moving forward. This could be a potential Phase II.
ďAll truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.Ē
-Friedrich Nietzsche

Online troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5501 on: July 18, 2018, 05:34:28 PM »
What are the chances they actually do ground floor retail and apartment units about (for the boys and girls club property)...

I know Logan st is mostly residential and the streets are small, but I love the feel of bars and restaurants when they are on narrow streets. Something very European I guess.

Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5502 on: July 18, 2018, 08:25:24 PM »
What are the chances

I would guess about 95% odds.

Online thebillshark

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5503 on: July 19, 2018, 05:45:01 AM »
I think a good project at that site would have street facing entrances on both the Logan St. and Central Parkway sides.

Offline 1400 Sycamore

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5504 on: July 19, 2018, 07:47:06 AM »
Not everyone wants to live next door to a bar.

Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5505 on: July 19, 2018, 08:22:42 AM »
Then don't live there? There are plenty of spots where you can be away from nightlife.

Also, I'm almost positive I know troeros is referring to spots like 14th and Republic where the vibe is more relaxed, a little quieter, etc. It's a really pleasant spot, as is the intersection of 15th and Pleasant, several along Clay and Jackson, etc.

It's a mixed use district. There will be ground floor uses. If you don't like those, go to the streets that don't have them.

Offline 1400 Sycamore

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5506 on: July 19, 2018, 11:12:14 AM »
You missed the point . .  as usual. I wouldn't live there, bar or no bar. My point was that a sensible developer is not always going to invest $150,000 per door in apartments that are above or next to a bar. If you are putting up the money, good for you. Put a bar on the first floor of your multi-million dollar development.

Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5507 on: July 19, 2018, 11:18:10 AM »
You missed the point . .  as usual. I wouldn't live there, bar or no bar. My point was that a sensible developer is not always going to invest $150,000 per door in apartments that are above or next to a bar. If you are putting up the money, good for you. Put a bar on the first floor of your multi-million dollar development.

No, that wasn't your point and not what you said. "As usual" give me a beak.

An enormous portion of the development in OTR did just that without issue. Vine Street, Race Street, Main Street, parts of Republic Street, etc. all did exactly what you just said.

Everything I said is applicable. If you don't want to live above or next to a bar or other ground floor uses, don't. Nobody is forcing you to. There are a lot of great options in OTR that don't have ground floor commercial uses.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 11:30:02 AM by jmicha »

Online DEPACincy

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5508 on: July 19, 2018, 11:32:15 AM »
You missed the point . .  as usual. I wouldn't live there, bar or no bar. My point was that a sensible developer is not always going to invest $150,000 per door in apartments that are above or next to a bar. If you are putting up the money, good for you. Put a bar on the first floor of your multi-million dollar development.

There seems to be a trend among your posts? Do you even like cities? It seems that everything you argue for is very anti-urban.

Offline taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5509 on: July 19, 2018, 12:44:53 PM »
Ground floor retail with some other usage (office or residential) above is the standard format for urban neighborhoods like OTR. Plenty of "sensible neighborhoods" have invested in buildings that use that formula. Residential-only buildings are really not that common on major streets.

Offline 1400 Sycamore

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5510 on: July 19, 2018, 05:03:13 PM »
The comment was
Quote
I know Logan st is mostly residential and the streets are small, but I love the feel of bars and restaurants when they are on narrow streets. Something very European I guess.

I said that not everyone wants to live next door to a bar.

Anyone who disagrees with this observation is a passenger or a spectator.

Online troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5511 on: July 19, 2018, 05:15:48 PM »
Why would you live in an urban environment in the first place? I feel living besides bars/restaurants is what gives urban living itís appeal

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5512 on: July 19, 2018, 05:58:19 PM »
How is it controversial to say that not everyone likes living above bars or restaurants? I enjoy living in urban environments, but I also enjoy peace and quiet at home. I would not want to live right on Vine or someplace like that. I do love unexpected retail outlets, like the ones on Republic that jimicha listed. There is a difference between not wanting to live above a bar, and not wanting mixed use development. The latter is puzzling in a neighborhood like OTR, where there is no true business district, and most of the main streets function as mixed use corridors.

I love the feel of Logan St., at least on streetview. I like how the Boys and Girls club building helps to insulate the neighborhood to the east from Central Parkway. I hope whatever replaces the building is able to retain this feeling. I also don't think this area needs to have bars and restaurants, as it's close to Findlay Market and all the restaurants in and around it. Something low-key would be nice. I love stuff like this in Boston: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3588145,-71.0698467,3a,75y,225.83h,88.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svJV3NP1-2nE2Q22rphEacQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Offline jjakucyk

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5513 on: July 19, 2018, 06:56:08 PM »
How is it controversial to say that not everyone likes living above bars or restaurants?

Because the context in which it was posted implies a conspiracy of "liberals are trying to pack everyone together like sardines and take away choice."  As if there's so much urban residential over retail that it's choking out the fine, upstanding, salt of the earth, single-family homesteads.  It's no different than discussing a reduction or elimination of subsidies to automobile use, there's inevitably cries about how "not everyone wants to take the bus to work" and the "war on cars."

Online edale

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5514 on: July 19, 2018, 07:06:08 PM »
^ I didn't get that vibe from the post. If anything, it just sounded a little cranky/NIMBYish to me. A non-OTR resident said he wants to see a bar on the first floor of a development, while a resident of the neighborhood replies with "not everyone wants to live above a bar." Seems like a pretty normal exchange. Visitors and residents of urban neighborhoods often have different priorities.

Offline 1400 Sycamore

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5515 on: July 19, 2018, 08:39:48 PM »
If there was personal bias in my observation, it may have come from the years I lived in Mt. Adams. After the 10th or so vomit cleanup on my front walk and the 100th or so urination over my iron fence, I yearned for an art gallery or coffee shop.

But, my comment was simply an observation that sensible private developers hope for a bar or restaurant when they need an anchor tenant. Because they depress rents in the rest of the building. They are not a draw for residents in the same building. Nearby, maybe. Down the block, sure. Downstairs, not so much.

I was speaking from the developer's perspective.

Online troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5516 on: July 19, 2018, 08:59:13 PM »
So Maize, the new venuezelean Restaurant in the old ZBGB spot on Race recently opened this past Saturday.

Opening night was pretty packed. Decor was Pleasant, the food was on the other hand was simply OUTSTANDING. The menu items are also rather affordable as well.

The cocktails were a bit pricey, but they were all very unique and were cocktails you couldnt really find anywhere else in OTR.

Overall, I would argue itís probably taken over The Sacred Beast as my top new restaurant in otr. Definitely a must try for the those who have yet to dig in.

Offline Jimmy Skinner

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5517 on: July 20, 2018, 07:18:30 AM »
Also, Simply Rolled, the new ice cream place on 12th Street, near Race has been having a soft opening all week with good crowds.  I tried it and liked it a lot.  A little lighter and healthier options than going to Graeters IMO

Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5518 on: July 20, 2018, 08:28:35 AM »
If there was personal bias in my observation, it may have come from the years I lived in Mt. Adams. After the 10th or so vomit cleanup on my front walk and the 100th or so urination over my iron fence, I yearned for an art gallery or coffee shop.

But, my comment was simply an observation that sensible private developers hope for a bar or restaurant when they need an anchor tenant. Because they depress rents in the rest of the building. They are not a draw for residents in the same building. Nearby, maybe. Down the block, sure. Downstairs, not so much.

I was speaking from the developer's perspective.

So Model Group, 3CDC, Urban Sites, and countless others aren't sensible? Seems like they're all doing fine building residences above and next to bars.

You aren't speaking from the developer's perspective. Because developers of properties in urban locations love the draw of notable bars and restaurants. Most bars are pretty relaxed these days so they aren't an issue. Having activity on your ground floor is seen as a good thing as it brings people to your building. It doesn't "depress rents" in urban areas like you think it does. You are speaking with your own personal bias and projecting that onto large scale developers.

Online DEPACincy

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Re: Cincinnati: Over-the-Rhine: Development and News (non-3CDC)
« Reply #5519 on: July 20, 2018, 08:48:58 AM »
If there was personal bias in my observation, it may have come from the years I lived in Mt. Adams. After the 10th or so vomit cleanup on my front walk and the 100th or so urination over my iron fence, I yearned for an art gallery or coffee shop.

But, my comment was simply an observation that sensible private developers hope for a bar or restaurant when they need an anchor tenant. Because they depress rents in the rest of the building. They are not a draw for residents in the same building. Nearby, maybe. Down the block, sure. Downstairs, not so much.

I was speaking from the developer's perspective.

So Model Group, 3CDC, Urban Sites, and countless others aren't sensible? Seems like they're all doing fine building residences above and next to bars.

You aren't speaking from the developer's perspective. Because developers of properties in urban locations love the draw of notable bars and restaurants. Most bars are pretty relaxed these days so they aren't an issue. Having activity on your ground floor is seen as a good thing as it brings people to your building. It doesn't "depress rents" in urban areas like you think it does. You are speaking with your own personal bias and projecting that onto large scale developers.

Yep. Having worked in the development field for years I can tell you that 1400 Sycamore's claims are just completely false. They couldn't be further from the truth. But if you take them in the context of his/her other posts you realize that they have an extreme anti-urban bias. Their preference is more parking, less bars and restaurants, less people, less density. Basically a suburb.