Author Topic: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium  (Read 104337 times)

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Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1560 on: September 20, 2018, 02:37:10 PM »
And when you tear down those "useless" buildings, what "there" is left?

I lived in one of those "useless" building on Race Street just south of 15th. It was partially collapsed and my unit (on the top floor) had no roof. It wasn't economical for a private developer to bring back to life alone which is why 3CDC stepped in. The story is the same for 20 of the 21 buildings on the block. Only one was still occupiable 10 years ago. Now all 21 are, including Taft's Ale House.

If all these "useless" old buildings were torn down, what would have been left? Nothing of any importance or impact. You'd look north from Washington Park at a whole lot of nothing.

That's why it's important to save what is left, even if it's not necessarily economical to do so.

Offline neilworms

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1561 on: September 20, 2018, 03:34:55 PM »
on the contrary, I have suggested a number of improvements to many threads. Like tear down old useless buildings. And, build beautiful new ones. you seem to just like to argue. thats okay we all have opinions. you see this is how it works, you make a statement about what you think and then someone else gets to say what they think. what a concept. You seem to think that if i disagree with what you think, that is somehow useless. I just see you as uninformed. 


Maybe the reason Cincinnati is not on the national scene is that it has stagnant growth. Atlanta, Tampa, Austin, Charlotte, Raleigh, and Phoneix are just a few of the places people are moving. AC, small amount of snow, short winters, long summers.


The first one is part of the reason why Cincinnati is not known on the national scene.   Its supposedly useless old buildings are extrodinary in terms of most american cities, to the point that people would actually have a desire to visit Cincinnati if they knew about them and if more locals gave a darn about them...



OTR is a lovely place and will continue to get better. It is an investment in the future. When an entire area of the city has been neglected by city government, county government, exodus to the suburbs and overall neglect, buildings become useless because they cost too much to bring up to code, replace and entice people to develop the area. The city was smart to spend the money on the trolley system because it brought attention to OTR. Now we are building a new MLS stadium and developing adjacent areas. The stadium is also an investment for the future. My guess is more people will discover OTR because of the MLS and the streetcar system than any ad campaign. Kids will remember the ride on the streetcar attending a soccer match walking thru the "old town". They will become adults and many will consider moving to the city because of their positive memories. The Art Academy, School for Performing Arts, the Shakespeare theatre, the CSO, Washington Park and Findley Market are all parts of the bigger whole. All of these developments announce to the general public that OTR is a place to visit or be.


It took a herculean effort to get people like you to accept OTR for what it is.  The thing is that while OTR is by far the most impressive of an impressive collection of historic neighborhoods that Cincinnati has, there are other neighborhoods that have just as much potential value as OTR does particularly when packaged as a whole.   To explain, think of this on an advertising bilboard - "See Cincinnati one of America's most historic cities!" (its a phrase you almost never hear even though its true - and what could catalyze that is you know taking care of a few more of these "useless old buildings" and turning them into what OTR has been turned into, which I don't know if you remember was also considered useless by much of the city up until about 2010ish).

Offline RJohnson

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1562 on: September 20, 2018, 10:29:52 PM »
 wormy little people take credit for things they had nothing to do with. guess what, i was thinking about otr long before you were a twinkle. your herculean effort was to what? type and rant about someone who disagreed with you. I may be wrong but none of your posts affected anyone. the biggest problem with cincinnati is that there is really nothing truly historically important here, well maybe the mill creek, a bridge and a few railroad tressels. cities and towns along the atlantic may have historical importance, Santa Fe may, San Francisco, San Antonio, St. Louis, and Chicago too. Champagne tastes, drunk from an I heart Cincy mug. im sure you are well traveled and have a scrapbook of all the places you've been. cincinnatians saying cincinnati is great means nothing. You need people from NYC, Chicago, LA etc. to say don't miss cincy its the place to be.

the fact remains that old buildings are torn down because no one has an interest in keeping them around. oh and bm   

Offline SleepyLeroy

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1563 on: September 20, 2018, 10:40:07 PM »
^ TLDR: Boston may be historic.

Offline GCrites80s

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1564 on: September 20, 2018, 10:50:01 PM »
Cincinnati could really use having melted-down suburbs and crummy suburban-style areas in the city limits like most other Ohio (and many American) cities have. As it stands right now with all of these gold plated suburbs surrounding Cincinnati, the Average Joe and Jane think that only the city has potential to be crappy and don't appreciate it. Without the lessons of abandoned and stalled sprawl seen only at Swifton Commons, Forest Fair and a few other tiny pockets it's no wonder that Mason and Florence are worshiped. In other cities projects analogue to The Banks and the Uptown megablocks don't take 15-20 years to fill out... which also bolsters the core and inner ring's reputations. Their suburbanites are much more open-minded.

Offline Cincy513

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1565 on: Yesterday at 08:56:46 AM »
wormy little people take credit for things they had nothing to do with. guess what, i was thinking about otr long before you were a twinkle. your herculean effort was to what? type and rant about someone who disagreed with you. I may be wrong but none of your posts affected anyone. the biggest problem with cincinnati is that there is really nothing truly historically important here, well maybe the mill creek, a bridge and a few railroad tressels. cities and towns along the atlantic may have historical importance, Santa Fe may, San Francisco, San Antonio, St. Louis, and Chicago too. Champagne tastes, drunk from an I heart Cincy mug. im sure you are well traveled and have a scrapbook of all the places you've been. cincinnatians saying cincinnati is great means nothing. You need people from NYC, Chicago, LA etc. to say don't miss cincy its the place to be.

the fact remains that old buildings are torn down because no one has an interest in keeping them around. oh and bm   

How exactly is St. Louis historic but not Cincinnati?  With your attitude I'm not even sure why you're on this message board. 

Offline DEPACincy

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1566 on: Yesterday at 09:38:31 AM »
Cincinnati could really use having melted-down suburbs and crummy suburban-style areas in the city limits like most other Ohio (and many American) cities have. As it stands right now with all of these gold plated suburbs surrounding Cincinnati, the Average Joe and Jane think that only the city has potential to be crappy and don't appreciate it. Without the lessons of abandoned and stalled sprawl seen only at Swifton Commons, Forest Fair and a few other tiny pockets it's no wonder that Mason and Florence are worshiped. In other cities projects analogue to The Banks and the Uptown megablocks don't take 15-20 years to fill out... which also bolsters the core and inner ring's reputations. Their suburbanites are much more open-minded.

I always hear people from Florence saying how much they love Florence, but I just don't get it. I spent some of my time there during summer as a kid and I hated it then. I still think it has zero appeal. If you love it, good on ya, but I just don't understand it.

Offline DEPACincy

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Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1568 on: Yesterday at 10:19:21 AM »
Yeah, I live in NYC now and a ton of people go, "oh I heard it's cool there" or "I heard it's becoming a thing" or something along those lines. Not everyone, but a surprising amount have heard exclusively good things about Cincy if they've heard anything about it. A surprising amount also don't know that Ohio has a bad reputation and have no negative opinions of the state or their visits there. Ohio and its cities are shedding their bad reputations, especially among younger people who are getting priced out of other places.

I met quite a few former NYC or LA or SF residents who moved to OTR or Downtown specifically because they either visited once, had family in town, knew friends who were there, etc. because the entry cost of owning property or starting a business was so much more reasonable. It's not some unknown backwater. It definitely has a ton of room for improvement on a national scale, but it's getting there.

Offline 1400 Sycamore

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1569 on: Yesterday at 10:29:02 AM »
Every city has its disaffected persons. They visited once and had a bad time, they lived there and didn't make friends, they couldn't find a good job, etc. But, Cincinnati, like most every other city has lots of folks (like me) that could not be happier or more satisfied with living here. It has more to do with the whiner or complainer, than it does the city in question. And, that is true whether it is Cincinnati being disparaged or any other city. I could expound the virtues of Cincinnati in general or OTR in particular, but persons who are disaffected, chronic malcontents will not be swayed.

Offline Gordon Bombay

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1570 on: Yesterday at 10:32:50 AM »
Ohio and its cities are shedding their bad reputations, especially among younger people who are getting priced out of other places.

This is so incredibly true. When I first went off to University circa 2007, everyone who hailed from the Cincinnati or Columbus suburbs would identify themselves by their particular township, hamlet, or city. "Oh, hi, I'm from Fairfield, Ohio! That's about 20 minutes north of Cincinnati." Meanwhile, everyone from Pittsburgh and Cleveland, no matter where particularly in the region, would state: "From Pittsburgh," or, "From Cleveland." Both of those cities were quick to the trend of rebuilding their identities (often helped by successful sports teams getting attention as well as ambitious projects in their urban cores). In the ensuing years, I noticed similar things happening to Cincinnati and Columbus.

There was a time where we'd go to Neon's Unplugged (now Rosedale) and be the only ones playing bocce or catching a drink. Then a few years later, you couldn't get in on a Friday or Saturday night.

The point is: I don't think it's just young people from other cities who are coming here and getting priced out of other places (although that's certainly happening), but you have "locals" that have grown up in a bland suburban wasteland that now see the potential the city has to offer and there's demand for more living space, things to do, and entertainment. So the urban core, and by some extent certain outer neighborhoods, are growing like crazy.

In terms of historic buildings, these are essential to creating the right type of sustainable environment. You can't knock them all down and replace them with cheap, suburban crap. Look at all the half-empty strip malls in West Chester. There's going to be times where some structures are too far gone, there's going to be times where some structures can be replaced by something more useful, but we should do everything in our power to preserve what we do have. It sets this city apart, it creates a unique environment, it helps build livable, walkable, space.

There's a certain poster here who has a very interesting attitude towards historic buildings, that kind of 1970s Cincinnati thinking is what get a potentially reusable building like The Dennison Hotel turned in to an astroturf dog park. No, thanks.

We can and must do better. Now that Cincinnati is "trendy" again, we don't need to go back to the "good ol' Pete Rose Pearl Clutching attitude."

As for FC Cincinnati - I'm a fan, a season ticket holder. I had no issues with Newport, hated the Oakley idea, but thought the West End offered the best potential. I'm hopeful the club sees value in being a part of, not redefining, the urban space there. OTR on a Friday night doesn't seem too terribly different from a college bar street at times, but what sets it apart is the multitude of spaces and structures that allow other uses. It can be enjoyed as much more than simply a night out. Hopefully FCC does right by the community and recognizes that.

Offline Brutus_buckeye

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1571 on: Yesterday at 10:44:57 AM »
Its natural to identify more locally where you are from when you do not go far to school because you assume people know the area because they are there.

When I was in Cleveland at school, the Clevelanders would identify themselves as being from Solon, Westlake, Bay Village, Hudson, etc.

I think it is natural no matter where you are from

Offline Gordon Bombay

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1572 on: Yesterday at 12:40:54 PM »
Its natural to identify more locally where you are from when you do not go far to school because you assume people know the area because they are there.

When I was in Cleveland at school, the Clevelanders would identify themselves as being from Solon, Westlake, Bay Village, Hudson, etc.

I think it is natural no matter where you are from

No doubt. I do believe, though, that as this city (and others) reputations have grown (whether that's from notable events, sports team success, or a booming entertainment district) and these people have experienced it for themselves, they start to identify with the greater region.

FCC is a perfect example. On any match day, there's thousands of people waving Cincinnati City flags or wit the flag on their shirts. Most of them probably don't reside in, come from, or hail from within the city limits.

CinyShirts too - yeah, there's some hyper-local, area specific shirts in there, but they do a booming business selling "Cincinnati" on their products even out in Mason and Loveland.

Offline neilworms

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1573 on: Yesterday at 01:27:49 PM »
wormy little people take credit for things they had nothing to do with. guess what, i was thinking about otr long before you were a twinkle. your herculean effort was to what? type and rant about someone who disagreed with you. I may be wrong but none of your posts affected anyone. the biggest problem with cincinnati is that there is really nothing truly historically important here, well maybe the mill creek, a bridge and a few railroad tressels. cities and towns along the atlantic may have historical importance, Santa Fe may, San Francisco, San Antonio, St. Louis, and Chicago too. Champagne tastes, drunk from an I heart Cincy mug. im sure you are well traveled and have a scrapbook of all the places you've been. cincinnatians saying cincinnati is great means nothing. You need people from NYC, Chicago, LA etc. to say don't miss cincy its the place to be.

the fact remains that old buildings are torn down because no one has an interest in keeping them around. oh and bm   

Cincinnati is one small region in a globally connected world that increasingly is full of losers and winners.   Cincinnati is coasting, but in order to be a winner particularly in the economy we have now you need to be accepted into their club.

St Louis is as historic as Cincinnati is, both were at one point the largest city in the Midwest and are significantly older than most other Midwestern cities (like Chicago Milwaukee etc).   In 1870 Cincy, Chicago and STL were equals in terms of importance and what kind of galls me is that STL and Chicago own that history* and are proud of it, Cincinnati loves to bury it.  The more I read about Cincinnati's history the more it comes into focus that this is what's happened (and even from my horrifically alien non native grew up closer to Dayton perspective it was obvious to me that Cincinnati had a deep history and was very important at one point just because of how architecturally different it is than  any other city around it - you don't have neighborhood after neighborhood of brick row-houses and tenements in most Midwestern cities - these are only found in cities that are historically important). Your post btw proves that out - its a huge cultural problem IMO and holds Cincinnati back from really embracing what makes it unique and what could make it more than just a city that's coasting btw.

Though I have a weird feeling that mediocrity is comfortable to a lot of people so why not strive for excellence when you could just do what you are comfortable with even if said thing isn't good for you in the long run?

(*and yes STL is really bad at preservation, but it has much deeper structural regional economic problems than Cincinnati does and I only bring up that STL owns it due to my experiences in the city, they do a lot more outreach to other places and generally talk more about their history on a whole than Cincinnatians do- Cincy's prevaling culture devalues things that makes it unique and values the things every other city has usually - like being proud of the bengals, but not a neighborhood full of old rowhouses not found anywhere else in the midwest except maybe STL...)./
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:32:04 PM by neilworms »

Offline RJohnson

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1574 on: Yesterday at 08:05:28 PM »
it was the best of times. it was the worst of times. malcontents and disagreers listen up. we don't want your stinking opinions on this blog. you dirt lot bloggers, you mastaba dreamers you are not welcome in our town. any deviation from the norm will only be used against you. We are the great and power ooze. we speak only red brick truth. we stand behind our facades. down with the devils, down with the opposition. stand and take up the flag of freedom. follow the drinking gourd over the river to the promised land of Cannan. where we are free to speak our truth and all the others be damned.

Offline edale

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1575 on: Yesterday at 08:07:17 PM »
^ Cute. Why are you on this forum? Do you care about urban development? It's obvious you don't give a damn about preservation. Are you here to troll, or do you intend to start making meaningful contributions to the discussion?

Offline SleepyLeroy

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1576 on: Yesterday at 08:17:16 PM »
it was the best of times. it was the worst of times. malcontents and disagreers listen up. we don't want your stinking opinions on this blog. you dirt lot bloggers, you mastaba dreamers you are not welcome in our town. any deviation from the norm will only be used against you. We are the great and power ooze. we speak only red brick truth. we stand behind our facades. down with the devils, down with the opposition. stand and take up the flag of freedom. follow the drinking gourd over the river to the promised land of Cannan. where we are free to speak our truth and all the others be damned.
[/qu
it was the best of times. it was the worst of times. malcontents and disagreers listen up. we don't want your stinking opinions on this blog. you dirt lot bloggers, you mastaba dreamers you are not welcome in our town. any deviation from the norm will only be used against you. We are the great and power ooze. we speak only red brick truth. we stand behind our facades. down with the devils, down with the opposition. stand and take up the flag of freedom. follow the drinking gourd over the river to the promised land of Cannan. where we are free to speak our truth and all the others be damned.



Alrighty then, show me on this map where Cincinnati hurt you?

Offline MikeInCanton

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1577 on: Today at 11:21:49 AM »
This is interesting. the MLS is not a true ML Sport.  Last year In 2017, the average regular season home attendance of the Cincinnati Reds was 22,677. And this year 2018 the average FC Cincinnati attendance is over 25,000. and they play their matches on a rented field.

If you don't want to live across the street from a soccer stadium, maybe you shouldn't purchase a home there. Buy yourself a home in westchester or loveland.


Maybe the reason Cincinnati is not on the national scene is that it has stagnant growth. Atlanta, Tampa, Austin, Charlotte, Raleigh, and Phoneix are just a few of the places people are moving. AC, small amount of snow, short winters, long summers.


In order to make cincy viable again, maybe you need to tear down a few old buildings and bring major leagues sports to town.


MLS has higher attendance numbers than NBA and NHL so I don't know what you mean by not major league.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/207458/per-game-attendance-of-major-us-sports-leagues/

I appreciate the sentiment, but this is misleading. MLS attendance is higher than the NBA and NHL, but that's mostly due to the restrictions of hockey rinks and basketball courts - if it were practical to build 35k seat NHL/NBA arenas, they would certainly exist. Additionally, there is the issue of ticket prices. The average MLS ticket is ~$40, while the NHL and NBA are at least double that in most cases.

There's also TV ratings. MLS ratings are awful. Like 250k per match awful. That's worse than just about everything else broadcast by ESPN. If MLS and USMNT matches weren't sold as a bundle, the matches would be shown on CBS Sports Net or maybe even broadcast over YouTube.

MLS ratings are obviously well below the other major sports but MLS ratings are growing and have been. The average TV ratings:
2018: 316K (so far)
2017: 258K
2016: 248K
2015: 229K
2014: 200K
2013: 185K
2012: 164K
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_on_television#MLS_Cable_Viewership_Average

Excellent. Maybe by 2035 it will finally surpass college softball.

MLS faces a unique problem that the other major American sports do not: competition. MLS' ratings problem will likely not significantly change unless it becomes a league that rivals the big Euro leagues in talent.
« Last Edit: Today at 11:42:33 AM by MikeInCanton »

Offline RJohnson

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1578 on: Today at 12:29:24 PM »
watched just a little of this (the last 8 minutes or so) and it seemed to be right up this groups alley.  There are several additional airings  on PBS ohio 14 including one today if im not mistaken:

Trashing History
Friday, September 21, 10:48 pm on 14 HD
Duration: 0:10:57
Description: An intern attempts to save two multi-ton metal relics from the Cold War from the scrap yard.
[HD][CC]
View Additional Airings
Broadcast In: English
Website: http://www.provenanceproductions.com

When you disagree with someone's comments, instead of throw your tweeny shade, consider backing up your opinion with documented references. that way it won't be just your opinion. the west end stadium area is on the verge of pumping $300 million dollars in this area. And that in itself will bring another 300 million in investment over the next ten years. Saving an 1850s style building that looks pretty much like the rest of OTR is a silly waste of an argument.

Offline neilworms

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1579 on: Today at 02:08:08 PM »
Dude, I've traveled the world and you gave me shade about doing so and not caring about Cincinnatians opinions.  You know what I don't give a darn because IMO I think the prevaling idea is wrong.

Sometimes living elsewhere gives people perspective and perspective I see lacking.  These buildings are valuable to everyone in the country except ingrates in the Cincinnati area who can't see the forest through the trees.

Online troeros

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1580 on: Today at 02:22:32 PM »
I don’t know why are we comparing mls ratings when the league itself is barely 20 years old.

Also, I love historic buildings...I wish we can preserve them all.

That said, give me a city that has life, pedestrians walking day and night. Cincy has a huge historic stock, but so very actual energy and life. Too man people just work there but not enough people actually live there, and still the mass majority that do unfortunately are in incredible generational poverty and many of them have long criminal records.

Online taestell

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Re: Cincinnati: West End: FC Cincinnati Stadium
« Reply #1581 on: Today at 03:14:19 PM »
an 1850s style building that looks pretty much like the rest of OTR

Yes, this is how “historic districts” work.