Author Topic: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment  (Read 4614 times)

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Offline Cygnus

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Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« on: November 15, 2013, 10:43:55 AM »
Flaherty & Collins CEO: We’re interested in Saks site: EXCLUSIVE
Tom Demeropolis - Reporter - Cincinnati Business Courier


David Flaherty, CEO of Flaherty & Collins Properties, said his development company is interested in the Saks Fifth Avenue site in downtown Cincinnati.



Saks is moving from its store at Fifth and Race streets to the Kenwood Collection in spring 2016.

Flaherty & Collins plans to start construction on a $94 million, 30-story apartment tower at the site of the Pogue’s garage, just south of Saks at Fourth and Race streets, early next year. And Flaherty said the Saks site offers a great opportunity.

“We would love to do a second (project),” Flaherty told me Wednesday afternoon. “Saks is a great loss, but it does create more development opportunity with much more density downtown.”

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Online Jimmy_James

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2013, 11:03:03 AM »
Nice to finally hear some good news this month.  Looking forward to hearing more about their plans.
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Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2013, 11:20:08 AM »
This is interesting to hear. Saks leaving is obviously unfortunate, but that building is one of the absolute worst Downtown for such a prime spot. I will gladly cheer on its demolition if something larger and more urban goes up in its place. It's nice to see that Flaherty & Collins not only see their 30 story tower as a good investment, but think the city is a place they want to do multiple projects in. This site could easily house something of a decent size which would surely help the incoming grocery store and additional ground level retail popping up in the area.

Offline jdm00

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2013, 11:27:59 AM »
Movie theater!  I want a movie theater downtown!  Is that so wrong?  :)

Online Jimmy_James

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2013, 11:29:40 AM »
^I wonder if they are just trying to protect their existing project from the new city government, which seems hellbent on destroying everything the previous city government put in motion. It might just be the dismal mood I've been in since Election Day, but he may be posturing to keep cranley from yanking the $12M the city promised for 4th&Race. Time will tell, I suppose.
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Offline Johio

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2013, 12:37:57 PM »
Will be eager to see what happens here. The location is prime real estate and this will be an excellent opportunity to significantly upgrade that corner. More residents downtown is certainly a good thing. If a significant population can be established downtown, market forces will come into play and the retail problem will probably solve itself.

Offline kjbrill

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2013, 12:12:19 PM »
As long as the City is handing out money, why not put your hand in there early. If you can get $14Mil for the 4th and race project, why not try for more to replace the los of Saks? Can't blame anyone for trying.

Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2013, 12:30:17 PM »
I don't know if I'd call it handing out money. The public money (12 million) is being given to the developer in exchange for them building far more parking spaces in the garage than would actually be needed for the project. Essentially they're giving them money to fund a public garage since we're losing one. The same might be able to be done on the Saks site, but maybe not with the new garage next door, the one in Dunnhumby, and the one in Fountain Square all in close proximity. Another garage might not be necessary in such a small area.

Offline CincyGuy45202

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2013, 12:57:47 PM »

Could someone mock up that intersection with the dunnhumby building (~160 feet tall), 4th & race building (~360 feet tall) a macys high rise estimated at ~200 feet tall (isn't that about the cap for that building?) and a high rise replacing Saks at about 300 feet tall (25 story plus larger lower floors).

Sounds amazing!

Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2013, 12:58:51 PM »
I can do that. It will be generic massings, but juts give me a minute to throw them into Google Earth.

Offline jmicha

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2013, 01:13:39 PM »
Here are a few quick images of how the buildings would look amongst their context.

Offline subocincy

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2013, 02:41:01 PM »
^jmicha, keep up the good work!  (I think that we can all benefit from "envisioning" these critically important intersections of both Race & 4th and Race & Fifth!)

Offline seanian513

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2013, 03:20:01 PM »
All looks good  :lol: With Catholic Health Partners looking for 350,000sf of office space to be built for their new headquarters as stated in the Cincinnati Business Courier, it would be nice if they decided on downtown and adding a new HQ building in the CBD. 

Offline subocincy

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2013, 06:23:12 PM »
^ Only if either John Cranley doesn't overwhelm 'em with a move to Norwood (read in, Paycor) or John Kasich doesn't once again come rollin' into town with another $400,000,000 bribe to lure 'em to Columbus (read in, Sears).   :roll: 

Offline seanian513

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2013, 09:14:16 PM »
^ Only if either John Cranley doesn't overwhelm 'em with a move to Norwood (read in, Paycor) or John Kasich doesn't once again come rollin' into town with another $400,000,000 bribe to lure 'em to Columbus (read in, Sears).   :roll:

I wouldn't be surprised if Kasish doesn't try to lure them to Columbus either.  He is not for Ohio, he is for Columbus only.  Kasich is a douche.  Then we will now have Cranley that works off of his ego and doesn't care about the city of Cincinnati.  Cranley was a council member and afterwards worked to get a company (Paycor) moved to another city (Norwood), yet people in Cincinnati don't get it.  He is not for the City, he is for his own political gain.  It's just like when he went to all of the "Republican" based people and company parties, just so he could get elected.  He is a worm.               

Offline Sherman Cahal

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2013, 10:27:14 PM »
People see Paycor moving to Norwood as a huge loss, but what about the reverse poaching? MedPace moved from Norwood to Madisonville, a Cincinnati neighborhood, due to incentives. Or Omnicare moving from Covington to Cincinnati? Or Nelson Media? This stuff happens so regularly that it's not even worth blaming someone for - corporations will always be on the move or be pressing for deals to save a few bucks. It's nothing new.

Offline TheCOV

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2013, 10:32:44 PM »
People see Paycor moving to Norwood as a huge loss, but what about the reverse poaching? MedPace moved from Norwood to Madisonville, a Cincinnati neighborhood, due to incentives. Or Omnicare moving from Covington to Cincinnati? Or Nelson Media? This stuff happens so regularly that it's not even worth blaming someone for - corporations will always be on the move or be pressing for deals to save a few bucks. It's nothing new.

Agreed. EXCEPT, Cranley ran and will be the mayor of Cincinnati.  Not Norwood, not Covington.  He helped Paycor move out.  He could have begged off the case, but he didn't.  He is a worm.

Offline Sherman Cahal

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2013, 08:32:51 AM »
Well, I see it no different than when Governor Kasich's JobsOhio (etc.) was lobbying to get corporations to move across the river to Cincinnati - even boasting about their abilities to do so. Cranley was one of many lawyers involved in the Paycor move, however - and why give that up? It's good money and he was in the private sector. When you are in such firms, you don't get to pick and choose what assignments you have.

Ideally, given their climate in Paycor (completely relaxed dress code, super laid back - much more so than say DunnhumbyUSA), they would  have made for a good match in the basin. About 70% of their employees are under the age of 35.

Offline natininja

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2013, 11:15:52 AM »
^ That is a valid position to have. It's also a valid position to think if Cranley cared so much about the city, he would have tried to recuse himself from the job. Both perspectives have merit, IMO.

Personally, I take it as a small mark against him, among many other marks against him (many of them much bigger). Probably didn't sway too many minds, and certainly left 16% of registered voters in the Cranley column (enough to win).

I think it's convoluted to say it is the same as Kasich's deeds, though. Kasich isn't really supposed to have loyalty to Greater Cincinnati outside the larger fact of Cincinnati (and a chunk of Greater Cincinnati) being in Ohio. If Kasich were on Covington city council, and expected to return and become mayor of Covington, his efforts to take businesses away from NKY would be a better comparison. In terms of representing Ohio exclusively and at the state level, it makes some sense to poach businesses from NKY. In terms of representing (or aspiring to represent) Cincinnati, it is not good to support poaching within the region, and especially not poaching which takes jobs out of the city.

I think his firm would likely have understood if he wanted to remove/recuse himself from the case. If he informed them of his (possible) intentions to seek office, they likely would view his winning an election as a positive for the reputation of the firm -- and thus support his effort to avoid any black marks.
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Offline Cygnus

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2014, 01:52:33 PM »
Saks not heading to Kenwood Collection: Cincinnati: Retail News
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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2014, 02:05:59 PM »
My guess is that Kenwood Collection was asking for Kenwood Towne Centre level rents. The need to realize that Kenwood Collection is not the major mall - it's a glorified strip mall across the parking lot from the major mall.
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Offline cincyimages

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2014, 04:19:20 PM »
My guess is that Kenwood Collection was asking for Kenwood Towne Centre level rents. The need to realize that Kenwood Collection is not the major mall - it's a glorified strip mall across the parking lot from the major mall.

I think Kenwood Collection was trying to be more like the "Frontenac" of Cincinnati. http://www.plazafrontenac.com
« Last Edit: September 02, 2014, 04:19:41 PM by cincyimages »

Offline Toledophisher

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2016, 10:52:19 AM »
I was at an UpTech event last night at 8451 and couldn't help but notice how run down Saks looked.  The door where the van crashed through during Christmas time hasn't been replaced (yet), the sign lighting is dim and out, the neon lights over the front entrance are out and the store just looked like an old K-Mart about to close.

Does anyone know the fate of the store?  If I were a betting man, I'd say they're planning to close up shop soon - but if not, they need to do some work asap.  It's somewhat embarrassing and a blemish on the progress in that area as it stands. Does anyone have any insight?

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2016, 11:02:24 AM »
I have no information on Saks, but I'd suggest that they look to partner with the new owners at Fourth & Walnut Centre to be a major anchor tenant there. Updated building, higher profile space. Then the old building could be razed for a new tower or three.

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2016, 12:12:14 PM »
But then they wouldn't be on Fifth!
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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2016, 01:15:53 PM »
But then they wouldn't be on Fifth!

Ha! Good point. Though if they'd gone to Kenwood they wouldn't be either.

Offline edale

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Re: Cincinnati: Downtown: Fifth & Race (Saks) Redevelopment
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2016, 01:49:02 PM »
I was at an UpTech event last night at 8451 and couldn't help but notice how run down Saks looked.  The door where the van crashed through during Christmas time hasn't been replaced (yet), the sign lighting is dim and out, the neon lights over the front entrance are out and the store just looked like an old K-Mart about to close.

Does anyone know the fate of the store?  If I were a betting man, I'd say they're planning to close up shop soon - but if not, they need to do some work asap.  It's somewhat embarrassing and a blemish on the progress in that area as it stands. Does anyone have any insight?

I've thought that Saks is on its way out since they announced they weren't going through with the Kenwood store. Losing that store would be a big blow for the region, I think, so I hope I'm wrong. They've been neglecting the store for a while, never replaced the Chanel boutique when it closed in the store, and have generally shown very little interest in maintaining a nice store there. Idk of the urbanist crowd had any part in Saks deciding not to go to Kenwood (I know there was some serious behind the scene lobbying going on) but if so, I think that was very shortsighted and damaging to the region.

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