Author Topic: Canton: Pro Football Hall of Fame Village  (Read 457 times)

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Offline yanni_gogolak

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Canton: Pro Football Hall of Fame Village
« on: September 16, 2014, 08:40:24 PM »
Nobody's brought this up yet?!

HOF, leaders exploring creating Hall of Fame Village with NFL support

Todd Porter
CantonRep.com sports writer
Posted Sep. 13, 2014 @ 10:25 pm

    Stark County’s crown jewel soon might no longer be the only gem in the jewelry box.

    Leaders of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, Canton City Schools, private investors and business leaders have commissioned a study to see what it would take to turn the Hall of Fame into more than a campus.

    Where the Hall of Fame Village idea leads is unknown until an international feasibility group completes its study next month. A key part of that study would examine the addition of a four-star hotel and conference center to the Hall of Fame grounds.


Read more: http://www.cantonrep.com/article/20140913/News/140919619#ixzz3DWq1pAhx



Offline SquareWest

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2014, 11:41:50 PM »
Nobody's brought this up yet?!

HOF, leaders exploring creating Hall of Fame Village with NFL support

Todd Porter
CantonRep.com sports writer
Posted Sep. 13, 2014 @ 10:25 pm

    Stark County’s crown jewel soon might no longer be the only gem in the jewelry box.

    Leaders of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, Canton City Schools, private investors and business leaders have commissioned a study to see what it would take to turn the Hall of Fame into more than a campus.

    Where the Hall of Fame Village idea leads is unknown until an international feasibility group completes its study next month. A key part of that study would examine the addition of a four-star hotel and conference center to the Hall of Fame grounds.


Read more: http://www.cantonrep.com/article/20140913/News/140919619#ixzz3DWq1pAhx

That would be a good addition there and makes total sense.  There is such a dearth of meaningful or useful support businesses near the HOF.

Of course, given that the HOF has spurred basically no nearby development, it would do much better being downtown.  Which isn't going to happen, but still, think about the addition of a hotel and conference center to downtown Canton on top of already having the HOF there.  And the synergy they could get between existing attractions there and the HOF.  Oh well.

Offline yanni_gogolak

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2014, 11:36:25 AM »
That would be a good addition there and makes total sense.  There is such a dearth of meaningful or useful support businesses near the HOF.

Of course, given that the HOF has spurred basically no nearby development, it would do much better being downtown.  Which isn't going to happen, but still, think about the addition of a hotel and conference center to downtown Canton on top of already having the HOF there.  And the synergy they could get between existing attractions there and the HOF.  Oh well.

This was looked at one time. I'm not sure whey they stopped, but with the expansion last year I highly doubt they are going to move now.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 11:52:09 AM by yanni_gogolak »

Offline KJP

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2014, 12:49:50 PM »
The @ProFootballHOF approves concept for 'Hall of Fame Village.'
http://t.co/BA5ZDxcsU6 http://t.co/WGClEPJPLF
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Offline ColDayMan

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2014, 04:19:21 PM »
Pro Football Hall of Fame's big expansion plans



The Pro Football Hall of Fame is expanding with plans for a larger campus including a hotel and conference center, the Canton Repository reports. Longer-range plans include restaurants, retail, youth football fields and even residential units for retired NFL players, the paper said. The hotel's the key piece in efforts to bring the NFL Draft to Canton in 2019, the paper said, marking the centennial of the league that was formed in downtown Canton. Bloomberg reports the first phase would cost upwards of $250 million, with Hall of Fame President David Baker saying about $35 million has been raised so far.

More below:
http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/morning_call/2014/11/morning-roundup-pro-football-hall-of-fames-big.html
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Offline NEOBuckeye

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2014, 11:50:47 AM »
I still think the HoF museum & stadium complex would have a far more transformational impact for the region in Downtown Canton, not to mention amping up the city center considerably as a tourist attraction year round, as well as during the HoF festivities. But I guess that aspiration went out the window maybe for good when they committed to the remodel of the museum at its current site.

The city and HoF appear to be "doubling down" now on that location, which I suppose is still a net positive for Canton. And perhaps it can truly become the anchor institution for a new or reinvigorated residential community. At the same time, I can't help but feel like a key historic opportunity is being overlooked akin to the one residents blew in the 1950s to create a "University of Canton" downtown.

At least there's still the Arts District, which has been wonderful to watch as it grows. But Downtown Canton could definitely benefit from having more unique anchor institutions and the synergies that these would create.

Offline yanni_gogolak

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2014, 01:15:27 PM »
/\/\
Agreed, but they killed that when they did the latest expansion.

Offline SquareWest

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2014, 10:49:33 PM »
I still think the HoF museum & stadium complex would have a far more transformational impact for the region in Downtown Canton, not to mention amping up the city center considerably as a tourist attraction year round, as well as during the HoF festivities. But I guess that aspiration went out the window maybe for good when they committed to the remodel of the museum at its current site.

The city and HoF appear to be "doubling down" now on that location, which I suppose is still a net positive for Canton. And perhaps it can truly become the anchor institution for a new or reinvigorated residential community. At the same time, I can't help but feel like a key historic opportunity is being overlooked akin to the one residents blew in the 1950s to create a "University of Canton" downtown.

At least there's still the Arts District, which has been wonderful to watch as it grows. But Downtown Canton could definitely benefit from having more unique anchor institutions and the synergies that these would create.

If there ever was a reason for a municipality to throw money at something, it would have been to move the HOF Downtown.

I'm going to assume that from the HOF's point of view, that is a convenience for tourists to be right at the exit off of I-77.  Their business is to draw in as many visitors as possible, and being located right Downtown would probably not be as convenient.  And, unfortunately, the I-77 exits closer to Downtown are either not well suited to that type of development (12th/13th St NW) or in really depressed neighborhoods (just about anywhere south of Tusc. along the interstate). 

It would have been interesting if they could have worked something out on the South end of Downtown near Rt 30 where there is a lot of underutilized industrial facilities.

But I do think, in the long run, having them stay on Fulton is not the best idea for the City.  And clearly the HOF is not generating any economic spillover to the local neighborhood.  I think most people who visit the HOF stay in Belden Village, roll a couple of exits down I-77, and then head back up to stay at hotels and dine out.  Aside from some people staying on-site at the hotel I don't expect this to change whatsoever.


Offline yanni_gogolak

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Canton: Pro Football Hall of Fame Village
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2014, 12:22:54 PM »
Fawcett to be renamed Tom Benson Hall of Fame Stadium
Fawcett Stadium, which is one of the cornerstone pieces to the Pro Football Hall of Fame's new village concept, will be named Tom Benson Hall of Fame Stadium. Benson is the owner of the New Orleans Saints and his $11 million donation to the Hall of Fame's expansion efforts is the largest individual gift in the Hall's history.

    Fawcett Stadium was built at a cost of $500,000 more than 75 years ago. A gift of $11 million and a strong belief in the future of the Pro Football Hall of Fame is changing the name of Stark County’s most-identifiable venue.

    The new stadium, which is one of the cornerstone pieces to the Pro Football Hall of Fame’s new village concept, will be named Tom Benson Hall of Fame Stadium.


Read more: http://www.cantonrep.com/article/20141123/Sports/141129681#ixzz3K0YXh03m

Offline NEOBuckeye

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Re: Canton: Pro Football Hall of Fame Village
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2014, 09:54:11 PM »
Interesting name change. It will take some time getting used to.

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2014, 09:48:01 PM »
Looks like Fawcett Stadium will be significantly renovated and a Hall of Fame village will be built alongside it. Oh and the stadium's also getting a new name:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/11/tom_benson_hall_of_fame.html

Offline mkeller234

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2014, 12:06:50 PM »
Yeah, they will be tearing the entire stadium down and rebuilding it.  It looks like the new stadium will be brick.  I really thnk the name change is a shame.  It shows that for the right amount of money, anything is for sale.... Even past honors.

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2014, 05:53:01 PM »
Yeah, they will be tearing the entire stadium down and rebuilding it.  It looks like the new stadium will be brick.  I really thnk the name change is a shame.  It shows that for the right amount of money, anything is for sale.... Even past honors.

As an Ohio high school football fan, the name change is ridiculous and kind of a slap in the face to the community.

Offline jeremyck01

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2014, 02:41:51 AM »
Yeah, they will be tearing the entire stadium down and rebuilding it.  It looks like the new stadium will be brick.  I really thnk the name change is a shame.  It shows that for the right amount of money, anything is for sale.... Even past honors.

As an Ohio high school football fan, the name change is ridiculous and kind of a slap in the face to the community.

Why all the angst over a name change?

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2014, 08:37:59 AM »
Yeah, they will be tearing the entire stadium down and rebuilding it.  It looks like the new stadium will be brick.  I really thnk the name change is a shame.  It shows that for the right amount of money, anything is for sale.... Even past honors.

As an Ohio high school football fan, the name change is ridiculous and kind of a slap in the face to the community.

Why all the angst over a name change?

Well, in my opinion, you're taking what has always been a local stadium named after a local athlete/leader and naming it after a person who is from Louisiana but simply plopped down several million dollars for the honor.

Offline mkeller234

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2014, 08:55:02 AM »
Exactly.  It was in named in honor of a local person, and it's not right to sell that honor to the highest bidder.

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2014, 09:24:52 AM »
Exactly.  It was in named in honor of a local person, and it's not right to sell that honor to the highest bidder.

I mean, Benson himself isn't even one of the league's most important owners/leaders.

Offline SquareWest

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2014, 12:24:15 PM »
I understand the sentimentality but either it can remain Fawcett Stadium and be a 76 year old high school stadium or they can accept the money and the name change and have a much more modern facility for the community.

And for the high school football community, none of this has anything to do with high school football.  So, again, were it not for HOF and association to the NFL, Canton high school football players would be running around in a wood frame stadium with bleacher seating like everyone else.  I think you will be hard pressed to find a high school football team that would turn down playing in a stadium several steps up from what they otherwise would be playing in just on the basis of the name on the front of the building.

You've got an NFL owner with a connection to the NFL who wants to drop $11 million dollars in exchange for the naming rights for a stadium at the Pro Football HOF, a facility honoring players and people associated with the NFL.  I don't see much disconnect there.

Offline KJP

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2014, 12:53:03 PM »
Exactly.  It was in named in honor of a local person, and it's not right to sell that honor to the highest bidder.

This is America. EVERYTHING is for sale to the highest bidder.
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Offline jeremyck01

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2014, 02:40:12 PM »
I understand the sentimentality but either it can remain Fawcett Stadium and be a 76 year old high school stadium or they can accept the money and the name change and have a much more modern facility for the community.

And for the high school football community, none of this has anything to do with high school football.  So, again, were it not for HOF and association to the NFL, Canton high school football players would be running around in a wood frame stadium with bleacher seating like everyone else.  I think you will be hard pressed to find a high school football team that would turn down playing in a stadium several steps up from what they otherwise would be playing in just on the basis of the name on the front of the building.

You've got an NFL owner with a connection to the NFL who wants to drop $11 million dollars in exchange for the naming rights for a stadium at the Pro Football HOF, a facility honoring players and people associated with the NFL.  I don't see much disconnect there.

Exactly. 

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2014, 02:51:07 PM »
I understand the sentimentality but either it can remain Fawcett Stadium and be a 76 year old high school stadium or they can accept the money and the name change and have a much more modern facility for the community.

And for the high school football community, none of this has anything to do with high school football.  So, again, were it not for HOF and association to the NFL, Canton high school football players would be running around in a wood frame stadium with bleacher seating like everyone else.  I think you will be hard pressed to find a high school football team that would turn down playing in a stadium several steps up from what they otherwise would be playing in just on the basis of the name on the front of the building.

You've got an NFL owner with a connection to the NFL who wants to drop $11 million dollars in exchange for the naming rights for a stadium at the Pro Football HOF, a facility honoring players and people associated with the NFL.  I don't see much disconnect there.

I don't think this is entirely true. My understanding is that Canton would have a very large stadium for high school and college football use regardless of whether or not the NFL ever decided to locate the Hall of Fame there. The original stadium was built, with public money, some two decades before the Hall of Fame even opened. The history of this stadium is rooted in high school football and I think there's good reason to believe that with or without the NFL, the McKinley Bulldogs would still be playing in one of the largest and nicest stadia in the state. Stark County is football crazy and while it's hard to make guesses about history, I suspect that the local community would have dug into their collective pockets over the years to fund renovations and maintenance for the place. And building on that point, the schools and state are still fronting about half of the money for these newer renovations, so I'm still not seeing the argument behind so nonchalantly discarding tradition.

Offline SquareWest

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2014, 04:27:41 PM »
I don't think this is entirely true. My understanding is that Canton would have a very large stadium for high school and college football use regardless of whether or not the NFL ever decided to locate the Hall of Fame there. The original stadium was built, with public money, some two decades before the Hall of Fame even opened. The history of this stadium is rooted in high school football and I think there's good reason to believe that with or without the NFL, the McKinley Bulldogs would still be playing in one of the largest and nicest stadia in the state. Stark County is football crazy and while it's hard to make guesses about history, I suspect that the local community would have dug into their collective pockets over the years to fund renovations and maintenance for the place.

NicER, probably.  High school football is big there.  And true, Fawcett was a WPA project.  But so were a lot of other projects that wouldn't be done again were the federal government not throwing money around just to give unemployed people something to do.  But ultimately the attention drawn to that stadium at that location is because of the HOF and the NFL, with local football coming in a distant second.

Quote
And building on that point, the schools and state are still fronting about half of the money for these newer renovations, so I'm still not seeing the argument behind so nonchalantly discarding tradition.

Yes, the schools and the state are fronting half of the money.  And then there's the other half. 

And that is with them knowing full well that is where the Hall of Fame game is played.  What would the state and local governments pitch in if it wasn't?

At the end of the day high school football plays but a part of the role in that stadium... and so does the HOF and the NFL.  Because the name and a big chunk of the money is coming from the other side doesn't make it any more or less valid than had it been named after someone drawing from the local sports heritage part of it.

You've still got Paul Brown Stadium in Massillon, also home to a major high school football legacy, also originally built with WPA dollars, and also with no one from the NFL trying to throw $11 million dollars at it because... it isn't at the HOF and doesn't host the annual HOF game.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 04:34:44 PM by SquareWest »

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2014, 06:32:54 PM »
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on how ridiculous it is to name the stadium for Tom Benson considering the history of the stadium. And I've yet to hear of any formal public backlash, but I hope it's coming. Or maybe it's not, and we now know the price of dignity in an old Rust Belt town.

FWIW, even if the state backed out, between Malone College, Walsh University, the Canton City Schools, and various local private donors, I bet a tidy sum could be dug up to do whatever renovations are necessary to update the place. I'm not talking about making it into the Taj Mahal, but bring it into the 21st century. The Hall of Fame isn't going anywhere; perhaps community leaders should lean on the committee a bit since this decision seems to have been made without much care for local history.

Offline SquareWest

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2014, 09:11:59 PM »
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on how ridiculous it is to name the stadium for Tom Benson considering the history of the stadium. And I've yet to hear of any formal public backlash, but I hope it's coming. Or maybe it's not, and we now know the price of dignity in an old Rust Belt town.

FWIW, even if the state backed out, between Malone College, Walsh University, the Canton City Schools, and various local private donors, I bet a tidy sum could be dug up to do whatever renovations are necessary to update the place. I'm not talking about making it into the Taj Mahal, but bring it into the 21st century. The Hall of Fame isn't going anywhere; perhaps community leaders should lean on the committee a bit since this decision seems to have been made without much care for local history.

Perhaps so, and I do get where you're coming from, but I guess I fail to see how this is any different from FirstEnergy Stadium being named after FirstEnergy.  Why didn't they turn down FirstEnergy's money and call it Bernie Kosar Stadium instead?   Sure, Malone and Walsh and CCS could cough up an extra $11 million dollars, but why?  That's $11 million more dollars they can put into educating kids.  And it's not like they are naming it something patently absurd, they are naming it after a guy who is chipping in $11 million dollars to build something in Canton.  Honestly, I don't think John Fawcett or most any other person would want the community to turn down $11 million dollars so their name could be up there instead. 

I just don't see it as a dignity issue whatsoever.  It's not like Tom Benson came along and said, "Hey.  I'm going to give you this money, but you need to really embarrass yourselves.  Draw a giant penis on the side of the stadium.  Then call it 'Canton Sucks Stadium.'   Make sure all of it is in big, bright letters too."    It's just the guy's name.  And that's probably why there is no outcry from the community, because there isn't anything to cry about.  Fawcett got 76 years of his name being up there.  That's pretty good in my opinion for a guy whose claim to fame was being on the school board.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 09:23:23 PM by SquareWest »

Offline jeremyck01

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2014, 03:08:12 AM »
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on how ridiculous it is to name the stadium for Tom Benson considering the history of the stadium. And I've yet to hear of any formal public backlash, but I hope it's coming. Or maybe it's not, and we now know the price of dignity in an old Rust Belt town.

FWIW, even if the state backed out, between Malone College, Walsh University, the Canton City Schools, and various local private donors, I bet a tidy sum could be dug up to do whatever renovations are necessary to update the place. I'm not talking about making it into the Taj Mahal, but bring it into the 21st century. The Hall of Fame isn't going anywhere; perhaps community leaders should lean on the committee a bit since this decision seems to have been made without much care for local history.

"The price of dignity in an old Rust Belt town"?  Dabbling in hyperbole a bit there, aren't you?  People donate a lot of money for a project and they have things names after them. It happens for schools, stadiums, office buildings, etc. This guy wasn't asking them to name the stadium after him, it was done as a nod to his generosity.  It's silly to play armchair quarterback and say "if only  this school or that other person or institution donated, then we could keep the name."  There will be no backlash because there is nothing about which to have a backlash. 

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2014, 12:33:59 PM »
Perhaps so, and I do get where you're coming from, but I guess I fail to see how this is any different from FirstEnergy Stadium being named after FirstEnergy.  Why didn't they turn down FirstEnergy's money and call it Bernie Kosar Stadium instead?   Sure, Malone and Walsh and CCS could cough up an extra $11 million dollars, but why?  That's $11 million more dollars they can put into educating kids.  And it's not like they are naming it something patently absurd, they are naming it after a guy who is chipping in $11 million dollars to build something in Canton.  Honestly, I don't think John Fawcett or most any other person would want the community to turn down $11 million dollars so their name could be up there instead. 

I just don't see it as a dignity issue whatsoever.  It's not like Tom Benson came along and said, "Hey.  I'm going to give you this money, but you need to really embarrass yourselves.  Draw a giant penis on the side of the stadium.  Then call it 'Canton Sucks Stadium.'   Make sure all of it is in big, bright letters too."    It's just the guy's name.  And that's probably why there is no outcry from the community, because there isn't anything to cry about.  Fawcett got 76 years of his name being up there.  That's pretty good in my opinion for a guy whose claim to fame was being on the school board.

There are some obvious differences between a local company buying naming rights for a stadium in which a professional team plays versus a nonlocal businessman (who's still alive) making a donation and having a committee "choose" to name after him a stadium in which amateur teams play. The big similarity is that these are both "publicly-owned" stadia in which control has been ceded to outside interests to do as they please, sometimes to no benefit of the public. But thank you for the context. I guess Benson wasn't willing to pay an extra $2 million to put up those large pictures of his penis on banners outside the stadium and besides the HOF committee had to draw the line somewhere, right? Thank goodness!

Offline Clevelander17

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2014, 12:39:36 PM »
"The price of dignity in an old Rust Belt town"?  Dabbling in hyperbole a bit there, aren't you?  People donate a lot of money for a project and they have things names after them. It happens for schools, stadiums, office buildings, etc. This guy wasn't asking them to name the stadium after him, it was done as a nod to his generosity.  It's silly to play armchair quarterback and say "if only  this school or that other person or institution donated, then we could keep the name."  There will be no backlash because there is nothing about which to have a backlash. 

A few things:
1. Read the comments on the Canton Repository story and there is definitely some anger amongst residents. Enough to force a change? Unlikely.

2. Publicly the HOF committee says that it was their decision to name it after him. Either that's poor judgement on their part or it's a front story for may have really happened.

3. Of course I'm aware that people pay money to have buildings named after them, but this was a locally-based building, overwhelmingly used by locally-based teams, that already had a name for a local resident. There's something a little bit different, a little bit unseemly about this situation, at least in my opinion.

Offline SquareWest

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Re: Re: Canton-Massillon: Random Development News & Info
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2014, 12:52:40 PM »
Perhaps so, and I do get where you're coming from, but I guess I fail to see how this is any different from FirstEnergy Stadium being named after FirstEnergy.  Why didn't they turn down FirstEnergy's money and call it Bernie Kosar Stadium instead?   Sure, Malone and Walsh and CCS could cough up an extra $11 million dollars, but why?  That's $11 million more dollars they can put into educating kids.  And it's not like they are naming it something patently absurd, they are naming it after a guy who is chipping in $11 million dollars to build something in Canton.  Honestly, I don't think John Fawcett or most any other person would want the community to turn down $11 million dollars so their name could be up there instead. 

I just don't see it as a dignity issue whatsoever.  It's not like Tom Benson came along and said, "Hey.  I'm going to give you this money, but you need to really embarrass yourselves.  Draw a giant penis on the side of the stadium.  Then call it 'Canton Sucks Stadium.'   Make sure all of it is in big, bright letters too."    It's just the guy's name.  And that's probably why there is no outcry from the community, because there isn't anything to cry about.  Fawcett got 76 years of his name being up there.  That's pretty good in my opinion for a guy whose claim to fame was being on the school board.

There are some obvious differences between a local company buying naming rights for a stadium in which a professional team plays versus a nonlocal businessman (who's still alive) making a donation and having a committee "choose" to name after him a stadium in which amateur teams play. The big similarity is that these are both "publicly-owned" stadia in which control has been ceded to outside interests to do as they please, sometimes to no benefit of the public. But thank you for the context. I guess Benson wasn't willing to pay an extra $2 million to put up those large pictures of his penis on banners outside the stadium and besides the HOF committee had to draw the line somewhere, right? Thank goodness!

$2 million is a lot of money though, they should probably investigate that angle.   :laugh:   Of course, the donation has nothing to do with the local teams whatsoever.  They just reap the benefit.

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