Author Topic: The Steps of Cincinnati (Read 20756 times)

Quimbob · « **Reply #35 on:** August 13, 2006, 04:23:51 AM »

Dunno if this is the right thread to post this but what the heck

Hillside steps divide neighbors
BY DAN KLEPAL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

EAST WALNUT HILLS - Cincinnati's 400 sets of hillside steps were built generations ago to link neighborhoods separated by steep terrain, and to bring people together.

But one set of steps, a 300-yard walkway up a steep hillside from William H. Taft Road to an upscale street off Madison Road called Keys Crescent, has gripped this neighborhood in an argument over whether they should be closed.

At the top of the hill, several Keys Crescent residents petitioned the city to close the steps last fall, saying they are rarely used, are in a state of disrepair and are responsible for increased crime involving the nine residences on the street.

That led to dozens of residents at the bottom of the hill - people who use the steps to get to school, stores, bus stops or for simple exercise - to respond with an impassioned effort to keep the steps open.

Folks on both ends of the steps accuse the others of misrepresenting facts. City council will decide the issue next month, when it returns from summer recess and the Vibrant Neighborhoods Committee takes up the issue. Most council members say they are willing to work out a compromise that would close the steps temporarily for repairs.

The repairs would include cutting back brush and adding more lights.

"We were told our crime was non-existent. It's them calling us a liar," Michael Kelley, one of the leaders of the effort to close the steps, said of the group arguing to keep them open. "I'm not willing to call them the same.

"I'm not angry. I'm not upset. But I do know we are experiencing a lot of crime. We didn't try to make this a popularity contest. We stood alone as a neighborhood. We didn't try to stuff the ballot box."

In the past year, there have been several break-ins, burglaries and incidents of vandalism on the gaslight street.

On Nov. 27, Kelley filed with the city a petition with 18 signatures asking that the steps be closed. That triggered a process during which the Transportation and Engineering Department sent mailings to all residents within a quarter-mile, posted a sign at the base of the steps soliciting opinions, asked for input from community councils and other city departments and talked to area businesses.

People in favor of keeping the steps open responded in droves - e-mailing city council members, creating a mailing list and establishing a Web site (www.savethesteps.com) to further the cause.

Folks like Doug Davis have been using the steps for years. His grown daughter, Laura, built forts in the woods on either side of the steps in the late 1970s. He still walks them every day.

"These steps are a park with a purpose," Davis said. "But there's a lot of money up on that street."

Residents in favor of keeping the steps accuse the people on Keys Crescent of trying to use their money and influence to have them closed. Some city council members met privately with those residents, and Police Chief Tom Streicher recommended closing the steps after meeting with them.

Streicher's recommendation came despite officers in District 2 telling the Department of Transportation they could find no reason to close the steps. After its investigation, the city's Transportation and Engineering Department also recommended keeping the steps open.

Martin Rahe, a Keys Crescent resident, said thieves have broken into his home three times in the past year. He found one thief removing items from his car in an enclosed courtyard at 4 p.m.

"It's time we take charge of our neighborhoods," Rahe said, adding that his wife doesn't stay in the house alone when he travels on business. "We live in fear. It's sinful not to protect people who live in your city."

Gerald Burns thinks that's hogwash. The 81-year-old man has been walking the steps since 1960, and has restored 11 homes in the neighborhood's historic district. He said the people on Keys Crescent are surrounded by poorer neighbors, and there are many access points to the street.

"I hope to use them until I can't use steps anymore," Burns said of the steps. "If crime is the problem, have police detailed there."

Council member Jim Tarbell said he originally agreed to vote in favor of closing the steps, after a private meeting with residents on Keys Crescent. He changed his mind after a public hearing last week, during which dozens of other people spoke in favor of keeping the steps open.

"Symbolically, what this issue represents in terms of the future of our city is quite significant," Tarbell said. "This is the way our city was laid out. And here is an outpouring of people that want to honor our heritage and interconnectedness of our neighborhoods."

E-mail dklepal@enquirer.com
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060813/NEWS01/608130370/1077/NEWS01

RiverViewer · « **Reply #36 on:** August 13, 2006, 06:34:05 AM »

Grasscat posted some earlier articles on this in the Random Cincinnati Developments thread:

First mention, in the East Walnut Hills section of the city round-up;
Responses here, here and here, and an update to the story here.

But yeah, this probably deserves its own thread now...anyone out there able to combine this stuff? I guess the Grasscat stuff is mid-post, so it's not just moving posts, but at least the relevant posts are linked in one place now!

shaas1 · « **Reply #37 on:** August 26, 2006, 10:59:19 AM »

These photos are awesome!

Thanks for someone naming the mounts, hills, etc.; excellent data!

Does anyone have old photos or post cards showing the differing mounts/hills in one shot? I realize this sounds rediculous, but often one can find a arial-type example of where they would be.

I've often wondered this myself, just this past week.

Interesting data - a treasure!

Shirley Haas

shaas1 · « **Reply #38 on:** August 26, 2006, 11:12:09 AM »

Quote from: Eigth and State on January 02, 2006, 12:33:01 PM

Thanks for the photos. I recognize about half of them.

It's interesting to note that there are houses in Cincinnati that only have access from such steps.

BTW, Cincinnati, "the City of Seven Hills," is a copy of Rome, where there really are seven hills. But just for fun, I will list a few community names off the top of my head:

The Mounts:

Mount Auburn
Mount Adams
Mount Healthy
Mount Lookout
Mount Airy
Mount Nebo
Mount Washington

The Hills:

Price Hill
Indian Hill
College Hill
North College Hill
Crescent Hills
Villa Hills
Western Hills

The Heights:

   Kennedy Heights
   Fairview Heights
   Monfort Heights
   Lincoln Heights

   And there are more but that's all I can think of for now.

Not that this really qualifies, but I grew up in Parkview Heights, which is near Finneytown - east of College Hill on N. Bend Road. A realtively "new" community built in the 1940s.

Went to Finneytown Grade School in 1945.

shirley haas

UncleRando · « **Reply #39 on:** September 08, 2006, 01:00:12 AM »

I figured this was the most relevant area for this news.

Council votes to close steps
CINCINNATI ENQUIRER
September 8, 2006

EAST WALNUT HILLS - The Collins Avenue steps will be closed after all.

A majority of Cincinnati City Council voted Thursday to close a 300-yard set of hillside steps, leading from William Howard Taft Road to an upscale street off Madison Road called Keys Crescent in East Walnut Hills.

The steps have been a source of controversy, with some of the residents atop the hill saying it contributes to crime, and the residents at the bottom saying law-abiding citizens use the steps to get to school, shops and bus stops.

Councilwoman Leslie Ghiz sponsored an ordinance that ordered the steps closed for five years. A crime analysis will be performed after that to see if the steps contribute to crime.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060908/NEWS01/609080409/1056

RiverViewer · « **Reply #40 on:** September 08, 2006, 03:29:52 AM »

WTF? Close them for five years, then analyze crime? What? So Leslie, if crime goes up on Keys Crescent, then you'll re-open the steps?

What a bone-headed, dumb-ass move. Christ, this is disgusting.

Quimbob · « **Reply #41 on:** September 08, 2006, 04:11:47 AM »

I am guessing the crime is being perpetrated by a small group of young people who will gradually move on.
If the steps contributed to crime the crime would have started to escalate 80 years ago when they were built.
yeah
this is stupid

Jskinner · « **Reply #42 on:** September 08, 2006, 04:40:40 AM »

I wonder how the votes fell. The real concern apparently is that the guy at the top of the steps uses part of the right of way as his driveway, and he doesn't like people walking there.

moonloop · « **Reply #43 on:** September 08, 2006, 05:00:07 AM »

Personally, if this is what it takes to keep middle and upper class residents in the city more power to them. Whether it's only perception or not, if this is what it takes to keep these residents in this neighborhood so be it.

ColDayMan · « **Reply #44 on:** September 08, 2006, 05:02:19 AM »

Quote from: moonloop on September 08, 2006, 05:00:07 AM

Personally, if this is what it takes to keep middle and upper class residents in the city more power to them. Whether it's only perception or not, if this is what it takes to keep these residents in this neighborhood so be it.

Ironically, statements like that began city failure.

Quimbob · « **Reply #45 on:** September 08, 2006, 05:13:06 AM »

Quote from: Jimmy Skinner on September 08, 2006, 04:40:40 AM

The real concern apparently is that the guy at the top of the steps uses part of the right of way as his driveway, and he doesn't like people walking there.

Apparently there is a driveway at the bottom that is on city property as well.
The pathway is also used by utility crews.
Even if the daggone steps are closed and removed there is still a path.
In the meeting the Keys Crescent residents indicated they would leave town if he steps were not closed.

RiverViewer · « **Reply #46 on:** September 08, 2006, 05:13:29 AM »

Personally, if this is what it takes to keep middle and upper class residents in the city more power to them. Whether it's only perception or not, if this is what it takes to keep these residents in this neighborhood so be it.

What middle and upper class residents want - and, I might add, what poorer residents want as well - are safe neighborhoods. Closing off the steps will, guaranteed, do nothing to make the neighborhood more safe. Any petty criminals in the neighborhood ain't coming from the $500K+ homes on the lower section of William Howard Taft, or the new riverfront development on Eastern - they're coming from Evanston and Walnut Hills and East Walnut Hills. Any non-petty criminals ain't gonna be walking.

This cuts off a community asset for the sake of what, exactly? Lower crime? Not a chance. A perception of possible extra security for a handful of residents (who all chose to live there with the steps installed), weighed against the reality of a less-rich neighborhood for thousands of families? I'm sorry, I don't see that as a wise choice.

RiverViewer · « **Reply #47 on:** September 08, 2006, 05:16:47 AM »

In the meeting the Keys Crescent residents indicated they would leave town if he steps were not closed.

That's just insane. All of a sudden, you're going to move away from your home because of a situation that's obtained for 80 years. Yeah, right, I call bullsh!t.

ColDayMan · « **Reply #48 on:** September 08, 2006, 05:18:05 AM »

For Cincinnati's sake, they need to leave (hell, the city is still losing people; might as well lose some assholes, no?).

UncleRando · « **Reply #49 on:** September 08, 2006, 05:20:04 AM »

It just seems like another NIMBY case, the city is getting desperate so they are beginning to give in to these individualistic demands more often (IMO, the reason of failure/downturn of the city). We must think about the greater good and forget about this NIMBYism!

In the meeting the Keys Crescent residents indicated they would leave town if he steps were not closed.

I would say good bye and good luck trying to sell your home in this housing market! I guess they all must have money to burn over some damn steps.

Save the Steps!!!

moonloop · « **Reply #50 on:** September 08, 2006, 05:47:20 AM »

Boy, where to begin. Yeah, let them leave, Cincy needs to be number one is something so how about number one in poverty. Let's chase these middle class folks away because they have zero tolerance for crime. Where could they go? I hear West Chester calling with open arms and hands in their wealthy wallets. Yeah, Cincy doesn't need anyone with money living in the City. What to do with these stately homes? I hear the Drop-In Center calling, I hear the Jesus freaks want to "save" people, where could they build yet another home base. What better than the city, where all the poor people already are? Let's turn all of Cincy into one Giant Social Service Agency. We can help so many people.

Too each their own, but to expect people to just grin and bare it, is what's killing the city's neighborhoods.

ColDayMan · « **Reply #51 on:** September 08, 2006, 05:56:07 AM »

Quote from: moonloop on September 08, 2006, 05:47:20 AM

Boy, where to begin. Yeah, let them leave, Cincy needs to be number one is something so how about number one in poverty. Let's chase these middle class folks away because they have zero tolerance for crime. Where could they go? I hear West Chester calling with open arms and hands in their wealthy wallets. Yeah, Cincy doesn't need anyone with money living in the City. What to do with these stately homes? I hear the Drop-In Center calling, I hear the Jesus freaks want to "save" people, where could they build yet another home base. What better than the city, where all the poor people already are? Let's turn all of Cincy into one Giant Social Service Agency. We can help so many people.

Too each their own, but to expect people to just grin and bare it, is what's killing the city's neighborhoods.

Talk about taking something out of context...

If anything, the reason of city failure is due to listening only to a certain group. Cities should provide assistance towards all groups and work to bring together the haves and have-nots while denouncing stereotypes and fear.

RiverViewer · « **Reply #52 on:** September 08, 2006, 06:01:19 AM »

Dude, nobody's saying drive the middle-class off. We're talking about balancing the needs of thousands of families negatively impacted by shutting down the stairs, against not the needs, but the incorrect perceptions of a handful of people.

Where in the living f*** do you get Leaving Stairs Open = One Giant Social Service Agency? Dude, you're arguing against god knows what, but it ain't the stairs issue...

cramer · « **Reply #53 on:** September 08, 2006, 06:04:31 AM »

Quote from: moonloop on September 08, 2006, 05:47:20 AM

Boy, where to begin. Yeah, let them leave, Cincy needs to be number one is something so how about number one in poverty. Let's chase these middle class folks away because they have zero tolerance for crime. Where could they go? I hear West Chester calling with open arms and hands in their wealthy wallets. Yeah, Cincy doesn't need anyone with money living in the City. What to do with these stately homes? I hear the Drop-In Center calling, I hear the Jesus freaks want to "save" people, where could they build yet another home base. What better than the city, where all the poor people already are? Let's turn all of Cincy into one Giant Social Service Agency. We can help so many people.

Too each their own, but to expect people to just grin and bare it, is what's killing the city's neighborhoods.

I understand where you're coming from, in a way. But calling folks who live on Key's Crescent "middle class" is just silly.

buildingcincinnati · « **Reply #54 on:** September 09, 2006, 06:29:26 AM »

I have posted about this a couple of times in the Random thread, but it's apparent that the only reason for this closure is crime. It seems that all of the other concerns aren't even being addressed. And five years? Is that lengthy of a period of time necessary to study this? My prediction is that the city will completely forget about this and that the steps will be closed forever.

To see the stories in the Random thread, search within that thread for "Collins Ave".

From the 9/8/06 Enquirer:

Council votes to close steps
THE ENQUIRER

EAST WALNUT HILLS - The Collins Avenue steps will be closed after all.

A majority of Cincinnati City Council voted Thursday to close a 300-yard set of hillside steps, leading from William Howard Taft Road to an upscale street off Madison Road called Keys Crescent in East Walnut Hills.

The steps have been a source of controversy, with some of the residents atop the hill saying it contributes to crime, and the residents at the bottom saying law-abiding citizens use the steps to get to school, shops and bus stops.

Councilwoman Leslie Ghiz sponsored an ordinance that ordered the steps closed for five years. A crime analysis will be performed after that to see if the steps contribute to crime.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060908/NEWS01/609080409/1056

RiverViewer · « **Reply #55 on:** October 23, 2006, 11:57:29 AM »

The Collins Avenue steps should be closing later this year. The CPD will be collecting crime stats from before and from during the closure and will report them to City Council in late 2011 to gauge the impact the closure has on crime, if any.

So frickin' stupid. Are they ripping the steps up too, or are they just going to put little "Steps Closed" signs on chains across the top and bottom? 'Cause you know criminals respect such signs...Jeezel.

Rubba · « **Reply #56 on:** November 03, 2006, 06:09:57 AM »

Quote from: Eigth and State on January 09, 2006, 12:01:45 PM

"I have recently thought that the "flying pig" marathon people (or similar minded folks) would have a field day with an event featuring some of these."

Serious runners normally don't do steps. You can't pass people easily, a normal running pace does not match the step spacing, etc. The steps are too narrow for any amount of people, and there's always a falling hazard.

On the other hand, there used to be a Cincinnati hill climb series: Straight Street, Monastery, Grand, Colerain, etc: all steep uphill races.

Straight Street and the Hill Climb Series is making a comeback this year. Checkout: http://www.StraightStreetHillClimb.com

Maximillian · « **Reply #57 on:** March 29, 2007, 07:24:53 AM »

Closing the collins ave steps was a bad move!!! Cole and crowley were the only ones to write me back supporting NOT closing the steps. Leslie Jizz sucks!! and I voted for that piece of crap!!

I can no longer hike the steps which are 2 hikes away in my "Cincinnati steps book" East walnut hills are a bunch of rich snobs, all except riverviewer and a few others here..

Sorry had to vent....

Quimbob · « **Reply #58 on:** March 29, 2007, 07:43:05 AM »

The pot ordinance & the steps in one day.
Seems Cecil Thomas response to everything is more law - less freedom.
Man is a psychopath.
Ghiz crabbing about the mayor every inch of the way is nothing but counterproductive.
Berding & Bortz ....
I had high hopes for this council but they seem to be working out of the Dick Cheney handbook.

RiverViewer · « **Reply #59 on:** April 03, 2007, 02:25:53 PM »

Quote from: Maximillian on March 29, 2007, 07:24:53 AM

East walnut hills are a bunch of rich snobs, all except riverviewer and a few others here..

Hey, I live in Walnut Hills, not East Walnut Hills! You could as easily call someone from Madisonville a Mariemont resident!

</feigned outrage>

Actually, the issue with the Collins steps isn't the residents of East Walnut Hills generally - it's the residents of Keys Crescent, which is among the most wealth-dense streets in the city...that and the complete pussification of council...I mean, I have yet to hear of a single actual crime committed on Keys Crescent with the aid of the steps, let alone one committed with the aid of the steps that couldn't be committed today with a "Steps Closed" sign hanging there...gah...

LincolnKennedy · « **Reply #60 on:** April 05, 2007, 05:10:19 PM »

Quote from: RiverViewer on April 03, 2007, 02:25:53 PM

Actually, the issue with the Collins steps isn't the residents of East Walnut Hills generally - it's the residents of Keys Crescent, which is among the most wealth-dense streets in the city...that and the complete pussification of council...I mean, I have yet to hear of a single actual crime committed on Keys Crescent with the aid of the steps, let alone one committed with the aid of the steps that couldn't be committed today with a "Steps Closed" sign hanging there...gah...

You'd think that people who, a few years back, wanted to instal "much-needed" automatic ticket giving cameras on the stoplights all over town would be willing to spring for a couple of motion activated cameras and streetlights. They are total wusses.

Michael L. Redmond · « **Reply #61 on:** April 06, 2007, 05:31:16 AM »

Quote

You'd think that people who, a few years back, wanted to instal "much-needed" automatic ticket giving cameras on the stoplights all over town would be willing to spring for a couple of motion activated cameras and streetlights. They are total wusses.

We are trying to do exactly that on the 29 Mulberry Steps. It is a different type of camera that we are using, it is a flashcam, used to discourage and catch people who are dumping garbage. We are attempting to kill two birds with one stone, one discourage crime that has happened on those steps, two discourage people from utilizing Peete st as a dump site. Flashcams by the way are a motion activated camera that takes a single shot of anyone who crosses its path. We hope to have it installed as part of a CPOP measure by summer.

buildingcincinnati · « **Reply #62 on:** April 08, 2007, 05:08:54 PM »

From the 3/15/07 Enquirer:

Council votes to close steps
THE ENQUIRER

Cincinnati City Council voted Wednesday to close the 300-yard Collins Avenue steps that lead from William Howard Taft Road to Keys Crescent.

The vote came after months of talk about the steps in community council meetings and at City Hall.

Proponents of the closure say the steps contribute to crime, while opponents say the steps are used by law-abiding citizens.

Councilwoman Laketa Cole tried to keep the steps open Wednesday, but her motion failed. Councilwoman Leslie Ghiz then brought up her ordinance to close the steps, which passed.

Council will vote twice more before the closure goes into effect.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070315/NEWS01/703150401/1056/COL02

buildingcincinnati · « **Reply #63 on:** April 08, 2007, 05:09:39 PM »

From the 3/29/07 Enquirer:

Council votes to close steps

After months of discussion, Cincinnati City Council voted Wednesday to close a set of steps that leads from William Howard Taft Road to the Keys Crescent neighborhood off Madison Road.

Some residents at the top of the Collins Avenue steps insist the steps invited crime to their neighborhood. But others said they still use the steps and that the steps would be fine if the city would spend the money to fix them up as once was planned.

Councilwoman Laketa Cole suggested holding the issue so her neighborhood's committee could talk to Police Chief Tom Streicher about his earlier endorsement of the closure.

The delay failed after Councilwoman Leslie Ghiz said council has discussed the steps long enough.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20070329/NEWS01/303290016/

buildingcincinnati · « **Reply #64 on:** April 08, 2007, 05:24:54 PM »

I had a change of heart and moved all of the Collins steps stuff over here. It's both a crime and a transportation issue. But Cincinnati's steps are part of what makes this a unique place, so they will be featured here.

I don't think I missed any of the Collins St articles or comments except for a couple of fragments in the Random Cincinnati thread. A search for "Collins Ave" should pull those up.

RiverViewer · « **Reply #65 on:** April 09, 2007, 01:53:09 AM »

Thanks for the consolidation - makes it easier to figure out where to look for this discussion!

And still, I have yet to hear of a single step-abetted crime on Keys Crescent, let alone crime being fostered in general...so frustrating...

GCrites80s · « **Reply #66 on:** April 09, 2007, 02:33:47 AM »

Most criminals are way too lazy to use 300 yards of steps anyway.

Michael L. Redmond · « **Reply #67 on:** April 09, 2007, 08:30:37 AM »

Riverviewer,

Are you saying that you have not heard of crime aided by the Collins steps or steps in general. I do know two families on Keys Crescent and this is going back a year or so ago, they did have a rash of car break-ins that they said the steps were both the ingress and egress routs.

On Mulberry we to have had our fair share of crime, from drug running to armed robbery that has occurred on 3 separate stairs, but we are utilizing other measures to stop them.

UncleRando · « **Reply #68 on:** April 09, 2007, 10:31:10 AM »

^So by that logic we should also remove all sidewalks to make it more difficult for the criminal to get to/away from their crime location.

These kinds of allegations may be true, but come on....where do we draw the line?? I have also heard the comments that bike paths facilitate crime. It is just becoming ridiculous in my mind!

ink · « **Reply #69 on:** April 09, 2007, 10:35:05 AM »

I guess the difference is that steps and bike paths are many times secluded by trees, etc. or just not parallel to streets; thus have a perception of being dangerous because they arn't in clear sight.

News:

Author Topic: The Steps of Cincinnati (Read 20756 times)