Topic: Cleveland: Restaurant News & Info

[jam40jeff]

All good points.   Plus, this is an area with a lot of manufacturing, which means lunchtimes aren't drawn out.  Ample and adjacent parking is a plus.[/color]

Huh?  I eat lunch at the Cleveland Heights Melt all the time for lunch and parking (although very tight) never costs me more than a minute or so, which is nothing compared to the time it takes to actually eat at Melt.

This is a crappy location and will only cause the brand to lose some of its appeal.  I think it's a poor business decision, not to mention all the other (more subjective) reasons I think it sucks.

[BelievelandD1]

All good points.   Plus, this is an area with a lot of manufacturing, which means lunchtimes aren't drawn out.  Ample and adjacent parking is a plus.[/color]

Huh?  I eat lunch at the Cleveland Heights Melt all the time for lunch and parking (although very tight) never costs me more than a minute or so, which is nothing compared to the time it takes to actually eat at Melt.

This is a crappy location and will only cause the brand to lose some of its appeal.  I think it's a poor business decision, not to mention all the other (more subjective) reasons I think it sucks.

I agree with Jam40jeff 100%.  This is awful.  Im glad I went to melt back when it opened in Lakewood before this catastrophe happened, so i could get the real experience.  I mean, whos going to be its neighbor?  chi-chis?  Melt had it right when it was gutting old buildings in urban areas and recreating the space into a funky joint.  Fish could have done that in 3 or 4 Cleveland neighborhoods and had equal success.  he bailed all of the suburbs out...they would have kept coming into town for a grilled cheese, now they can carry out and go back home.

[dwirthwein]

I think Independence (though nice enough new strip center) was a big step down from Lakewood/CHeights for Melt (which should have been in Cedar/Lee or Coventry, IMO on east side) - and Mentor an even lower rung choice (spoken by 10 year Mentor area worker/tax payer).  The Mentor strip center this is going into is 2nd rate, maybe 3rd... Howe Road is probably next, then Brook Park Rd, maybe Massillon after that...

[dwirthwein]

My favorite part of the CLEHts Melt is the giant bar...probably seats 40 -  which is empty many of the times  there, while folks wait an hour for a table...  But families with under-21s are unwelcome at the bar. They'll throw you out if you sit there - even though Melt is definitively A) a restaurant first, bar 2nd B) A family draw C) a restaurant that is clearly choosing to not let under-21s sit at the bar, whether at 12 noon (not understood) or 12 midnight (more understood), to either ensure only paying drinkers get those seats, increase the perceived wait - or both - when the state liquor laws quite certainly allow under-21s to sit at bars and eat...

[jam40jeff]

The funniest part to me is how Matt Fish tries to present himself as Mr. Cleveland, yet still has no Cleveland Melt locations.

The more I think about this location, the more I can't believe it.  Points East is a dumpy strip plaza (I think dwirthwein had it pegged at 3rd rate).  Even in Mentor, there are many places which would seem to have made more sense.  The location reminds me of where Bar Symon opened, and we all know how well that fared.  I know this place will attract customers, but I think it will cost them more than it gains them.  Not only will it surely devalue the brand name by being very "un-Melt-like", it will undoubtedly cannibalize some (or much) of the business from other locations.  I see people from Lake County posting all the time that they are going to Melt.  Well, now he will be operating double the space and surely won't be doubling his customer base.

[ClevelandOhio]

I dont like the location either, and the fact that not one Cleveland location exists. But atleast its in Western Mentor, which serves a way bigger population than in Eastern Mentor. Western Mentor atleast serves the other lakefront suburbs such as Willoughby, Eastlake, Willowick

[TBideon]

What are you guys complaining about? Lots of people work and live in that area, and it's far enough not to canibalize the other locations. This really isn't a big deal.

[jeremyck01]

All good points.   Plus, this is an area with a lot of manufacturing, which means lunchtimes aren't drawn out.  Ample and adjacent parking is a plus.[/color]

Huh?  I eat lunch at the Cleveland Heights Melt all the time for lunch and parking (although very tight) never costs me more than a minute or so, which is nothing compared to the time it takes to actually eat at Melt.

This is a crappy location and will only cause the brand to lose some of its appeal.  I think it's a poor business decision, not to mention all the other (more subjective) reasons I think it sucks.

I agree with Jam40jeff 100%.  This is awful.  Im glad I went to melt back when it opened in Lakewood before this catastrophe happened, so i could get the real experience.  I mean, whos going to be its neighbor?  chi-chis?  Melt had it right when it was gutting old buildings in urban areas and recreating the space into a funky joint.  Fish could have done that in 3 or 4 Cleveland neighborhoods and had equal success.  he bailed all of the suburbs out...they would have kept coming into town for a grilled cheese, now they can carry out and go back home.

It's amazing what people post without knowing anything about the restaurant industry or how sites are selected.  This wasn't a decision that was made lightly or without the proper research, I'm sure.  Sure, everyone hates strip malls and the suburbs, and we all wish the locations could be like the one in Lakewood, but Fish is the one in charge, not you, and he's made some pretty good decisions so far.  I'm sure if you wanted to you could send him an email to enlighten him about the error of his ways.

[BelievelandD1]

^well, i have.  I know all about the business end.  He is going to rake money, im not disputing that...but there isnt a doubt in my mind he could have had the same success in urban areas

[Mwd711]

The funniest part to me is how Matt Fish tries to present himself as Mr. Cleveland, yet still has no Cleveland Melt locations.

The more I think about this location, the more I can't believe it.  Points East is a dumpy strip plaza (I think dwirthwein had it pegged at 3rd rate).  Even in Mentor, there are many places which would seem to have made more sense.  The location reminds me of where Bar Symon opened, and we all know how well that fared.  I know this place will attract customers, but I think it will cost them more than it gains them.  Not only will it surely devalue the brand name by being very "un-Melt-like", it will undoubtedly cannibalize some (or much) of the business from other locations.  I see people from Lake County posting all the time that they are going to Melt.  Well, now he will be operating double the space and surely won't be doubling his customer base.

What makes you think the average customer cares that its in a strip mall? It may matter to a small group of people but the average customer wants good service and good food. As long as Melt delivers on that, the public will come. Its not like Mentor is in the sticks and has no successful restaurants. I prefer urban locations but its hardly a requirement when I'm searching out a place to eat. This shopping center is active, has plenty of tenants. In that way, its nothing like where Bar Symon was as that shopping center lacked an anchor tenant. Is Points East pretty? No. But its hardly a bombed out desolate shopping center.

As far as hurting his reputation, I don't think anybody feels like Dante's reputation has been sullied since he opened a place in Strongsville. And judging by the crowds at Michael Symon's places, his rep hasn't been hurt either as he's expanded. Same goes for Paul Minnillo who flat out left the city for Moreland Hills and seems to be thriving at Flour. A comparable cult like chain (granted, its now on a national scale) is Chipotle. When Chipotle was first starting out, it too was largely in hipper, urban areas and college neighborhoods. Today, they are nearly on every corner. It doesn't look like their business has declined any since they went more "suburban" and both their older and newer locations are booming. You could say the same for Starbucks' image. I just don't think that thought goes through the minds of most diners.

[jjames0408]

JB Mack opens on Monday and I believe Black Dog opens on the 18th.

[AJ93]

A couple points on Melt. First, the location he's choosing is at the intersection of two of the most heavily trafficked roads in Mentor. It has easy access from Rt 2 and Rt 90, and is surrounded by other eating establishments (yes, mostly chains, but welcome to Mentor). As for the quality of the strip center, it's no better or worse than every other strip center in Mentor. There is no 'downtown' area out here that he could put the location. The choice is strip center or standalone building. Again, welcome to Mentor.

DT Willoughby is a great location, but it's also pretty full. The only place that I could think of offhand that he could go is the old Gavi's location, which is next to Great Lakes Brewing, behind the main area off of Erie St. It's not as big as the place he has now, and is off a side road, away from the main action. It also isn't as easily accessable as the proposed location is, which while I realize isn't as big a priority for folks on this board, is a huge benefit when you're trying to draw from as broad an area as possible.

Jeff may know some people that come from Lake County to CH, but as I've posted before, for every one person that makes that trip, I could show you 10 people that would never make it (and, I might conjecture, wouldn't even know how to get there). He's going to draw from all of Lake County, as well as from Geauga County at this location. Believe it or not, he's going to draw people from Ashtabula county as well, as a lot of people from out east drive in to shop at Great Lakes Mall, and this location is literally a mile down the street from the mall.

And last point, and I'll drop this...what exactly is the Melt experience that we're going to lose? The Melt experience where I wait 2 hours for a grilled cheese sandwich? If he can set up this location to actually turn around in a reasonable time, he's going to have a packed house, because, as ERocc pointed out, the location is surrounded by manufacturing companies, and service companies who's employees have a fixed hour for lunch, that would love this place if it can get them in and out in less than an hour.

[BelievelandD1]

^ in my opinion,  the melt experience included dining with people of all different colors, shapes, sizes, cultures.  Everyone loves/loved Melt.  The first two locations drew from all over the region and it was great integration.  Everyone seemed to have a common ground of loving a grilled cheese sandwich.  Now, it pretty much symbolizes urban sprawl...it may as well be applebees.

Im not disputing it was a good business move.  There are plenty of people who will go there.  But i know I have moved on and i know many others have as well.  The point is he COULD have opened one in Ohio City, Downtown, University Circle, Collinwood, etc. to handle the overflow.  Kept the people coming in.  Instead he bailed them out and they get to stay home. 

[AJ93]

^I see your point, and my rebuttal is that an Ohio City location would cannibalize more from the inner ring people than it would the potential suburban clientele. I think this is an important point to reiterate...the people that he's going to draw to this new location are people that probably have never been to existing Melt locations, nor would they ever go there. I don't think he's going to lose anything at any of his existing locations, and he gains an entire new market share.

[dwirthwein]

I'm critical of the Mentor Melt location - but also am of the Independence location... I'm not a suburban/sprawl hater - that's for sure - but dislike it more from a "what do you want your company to be" standpoint... Might make great business sense - but, as noted above, you go from edgy/urban hot spot to just another suburban eatery...

With that said - I think B Spot's potential for screwing it up is even worse. Symon has an upscale brand to protect... And though B Spot was always suburban, Eton and Crocker Park are one thing... And Cuyahoga Falls - the next announced full service location - is quite another... (Even my Cuyahoga Falls native wife says, WTF? on that one...) What's next - a Rolling Acres mall location?

[Mwd711]

^^ Urban sprawl? In Mentor? We aren't talking about Bainbridge Twp. here. Much of Mentor was fully developed by 1980 including this shopping center and its surrounding neighborhood. One of the knocks on this shopping center is that its fairly ugly. Thats partly because of age. It was built in the late 70's/early 80s and has the ugly architecture to prove it.

As far as locations go, I find it interesting that jam thinks that a Mentor location is somehow going to cannibalize the CH Melt. Yet, jam also advocates putting locations in the city limits of Cleveland. Wouldn't it be much more likely that a UC or Collinwood location would cannibalize the CH location than one way out in Mentor? Mentor isn't exactly next door and that's the point. If the CH Melt can't survive and thrive because of a restaurant in Mentor (over 30 minutes away), then it says to me that CH is either a bad location or Melt isn't as exciting as a concept as first thought.

And just to finalize on image, how many people here realize that Luchita's had a location in Mentor for years? And it was in a rather sprawl-like part of the city (unlike Points East) in a shopping center with Heinens and down the road from a Super Kmart. Before the family decided to shut down their "satellite" locations, that location thrived and co-existed with Shaker Square for years. Today, Aladdin's Eatery is located there. Another local chain that started out in urban areas (Lakewood, Cleveland Hts) and has spread out across the burbs while also being in fairly urban business districts around the country. Do you consider Aladdin's the equivalent of Applebee's? I highly doubt it. Its a local company that has a diverse range of locations. There's no reason Melt can't do the same thing and thrive just like Aladdin's has.

[ClevelandOhio]

^I see your point, and my rebuttal is that an Ohio City location would cannibalize more from the inner ring people than it would the potential suburban clientele. I think this is an important point to reiterate...the people that he's going to draw to this new location are people that probably have never been to existing Melt locations, nor would they ever go there. I don't think he's going to lose anything at any of his existing locations, and he gains an entire new market share.

This is a good point, and I agree completely. I just am disappointed he didn't find a spot in Downtown Willoughby. I think it could have really helped out the area, and a new sign would have looked awesome in Downtown Willougby.

[Clueless,Ohio]

^Yes a Melt in Willoughby (my hometown for all intent and purpose)...specifically in DT Willo... would've been a great fit.

Other news...I did not got to the Barroco Madison Ave location for months upon months, instead I stubbornly waited for the W. 6th store to open. Finally this weekend I made it over to Birdtown Barroco.
Evidently they were forced to re-design the kitchen downtown after expecting to be open by Feb or March!
Staff at the Birdtown location said it'll probably be another month yet before the Warehouse District location opens. Such pleasant people and a hip place. Can't wait...

[jjames0408]

The Mentor Melt may as well be in Erie, PA. I've been in Lake County maybe 3 times.  You could say the same for a lot of Mentor coming to Cleveland.  There's not much competition there and now he can bring in the far east visitors. That being said, I really think he does need a central Cleveland location as well.

[jjames0408]

^Yes a Melt in Willoughby (my hometown for all intent and purpose)...specifically in DT Willo... would've been a great fit.

Other news...I did not got to the Barroco Madison Ave location for months upon months, instead I stubbornly waited for the W. 6th store to open. Finally this weekend I made it over to Birdtown Barroco.
Evidently they were forced to re-design the kitchen downtown after expecting to be open by Feb or March!
Staff at the Birdtown location said it'll probably be another month yet before the Warehouse District location opens. Such pleasant people and a hip place. Can't wait...

This is good to hear...I should venture over myself!

[jjames0408]

Unfortunately the quote tool never works for me at work, but this comment on the last page...
"The old Sushi 86 place has a new "coming soon" sign in their window.  This time for an Indian place, although the name escapes me now"
Read more: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,6769.5010.html#ixzz20sw1U2Le,

Where is the old Sushi 86? I tried google but did not find anything.

[surfohio]

^Yes a Melt in Willoughby (my hometown for all intent and purpose)...specifically in DT Willo... would've been a great fit.

Other news...I did not got to the Barroco Madison Ave location for months upon months, instead I stubbornly waited for the W. 6th store to open. Finally this weekend I made it over to Birdtown Barroco.
Evidently they were forced to re-design the kitchen downtown after expecting to be open by Feb or March!
Staff at the Birdtown location said it'll probably be another month yet before the Warehouse District location opens. Such pleasant people and a hip place. Can't wait...

Definitely Barroco has been a treasure for Birdtown. Next time you're in the hood go a block west and hit up Mahall's as well. This is the coolest place in the world, new owners came back from Brooklyn NY to save the place. They've upgraded the menu in a big big way, and the guy from Barroco is sometimes the guest chef.

http://mahalls20lanes.com/

[jam40jeff]

OK, I may have exaggerated the cannibalizing bit, but I still maintain that a pretty good portion of the CH crowd comes from Lake and Geauga Counties based on shirts I see people wearing there and also Facebook posts from people I know from Lake County (not urban minded people) that are always going there, some of which live as far east as Painesville.  Sure, he will draw new customers, but obviously some percentage of customers will be people who would have gone to CH.  Is it enough to make it worth opening a whole new restaurant?  I don't know.

But I guess my bigger complaint is exactly what dwirthwein posted.  He is changing the whole image of the place.  The Independence location was bad enough, but I figured it at least made sense if he was going to have locations about 5-7 miles from downtown on the east, west, south, and then maybe open up one in the city proper.  Even though the Independence one would be a bit of an outlier, it still would have made sense to me.  I like Melt enough that the last thing I want to happen to it is for them to open in 25 cities and be the next Max & Erma's.  I see a dumpy strip plaza in Mentor as a first step along that path.

Also, AJ, sorry to push your buttons about Mentor, I think that's the most defensive I've ever seen you on here.  But I do know Mentor.  I grew up less than a mile from where this new Melt was going.  Yes, Mentor is nearly all strip plazas, but I still think he could have found a better location.  First of all, as strip plazas go, this spot is not very visible.  Most of the traffic on Mentor Ave. at this point is concentrated between 306 and the mall, not west of 306.  Second, this is a dying strip plazas that has seen a couple of restaurants open and close over the years (wasn't it a Tony Roma's before?)  Also, even very suburban-minded people I know think it's dumpy, and these are people that thing newly renovated strip plazas are great.

And if he wanted to at least attempt to keep an urban vibe, like Jeni's does in Columbus or even like Yours Truly location seem to attempt to do, he could have located somewhere like the more "urban" styled building on 615 behind the Center Street School condos.  I just think it's an odd choice for a restaurant that grew to fame as a hip urban joint.

[Pugu]

Where is "The Tea Room"?

I realize it might just be a room in a non-restaurant (Spaces art gallery?), but was curious about it. I just came across a reference to it here:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/spacesgallery/7563193880/#

[Loretto]

As far as being out in exurbia, if Melt didn't do it someone would eventually beat them to the punch with an imitation.  Likely a really awful one and not just in regard to location.

^^ Urban sprawl? In Mentor? We aren't talking about Bainbridge Twp. here. Much of Mentor was fully developed by 1980 including this shopping center and its surrounding neighborhood.

Sprawl wasn't invented in the 90s and just because something is 30yrs old doesn't make it not sprawl.

[ClevelandOhio]

I wouldnt call that Strip Center dumpy or dying. It has an Old Navy, Marshalls, Panera Bread, Sallys Beauty Supply, Marcs!, and Pets Supply Plus. I dont know what else is in there. And atleast he got the location closest to the street. I also think he is on the right side of town. If he went by 615, that would be a good distance from the rest of Lake County, and be in a much more sprawly area. Im still wishing he would have chosen DTW. I dont think this will hurt CH business at all. Hopefully it will help the wait slightly, but I doubt even that will occur.

[8ShadesofGray]

Where is "The Tea Room"?

I realize it might just be a room in a non-restaurant (Spaces art gallery?), but was curious about it. I just came across a reference to it here:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/spacesgallery/7563193880/#

It was part of a show SPACES put on that just ended a few days ago ...

... SPACES will become the unofficial visitors center for Cleveland—a city with its own unique charms—in its exhibition The Cleveland Convention and Visitors Bureau (May 11 – July 13, 2012). This project seeks to engage the idea of tourism through the lens of a city that is not a traditional tourist destination. Participating artists engage Cleveland as a subject and medium in both critical and laudatory way—show that the city is singular and generic, foreign and familiar, and how that plays into notions of nostalgia, pilgrimage, place, history, community, displacement, commerce, and attraction.
 
The front gallery of SPACES will be converted into an ad hoc visitors center complete with postcards, brochures, a tea room and a friendly staff to guide visitors through the exhibition and the city ...

http://www.spacesgallery.org/project/the-cleveland-convention-and-visitors-bureau

[Pugu]

^Thanks. I like the concept -- too bad it was temporary....

[mrnyc]

for clev...to go with the casino...i'm thinking...robot bar!


http://m.io9.com/5926964/tokyos-new-robot-girls-restaurant-will-bring-out-your-inner-cyber+fetishist

[Clevelander17]

I dont think this will hurt CH business at all.

I do.  In fact I even think that it will start drawing many of the more suburban-minded folks from North/Northeast Cuyahoga County that for whatever reason don't feel like going to the Cleveland Heights location (when in the past that was their only option).  Just my opinion, though.

[Clueless,Ohio]

Barroco Owner Bringing New Flavor to Detroit Avenue
Juan Vergara is set to open Helvetica — a design-inspired café — on Aug. 15.
ByColin McEwen
July 18, 2012

"The businessman who brought a popular South American street food restaurant to Madison Avenue now has another artsy idea up his sleeve. "

http://lakewood-oh.patch.com/articles/barroco-owner-bringing-new-flavor-to-detroit-avenue

[surfohio]

Barroco Owner Bringing New Flavor to Detroit Avenue
Juan Vergara is set to open Helvetica — a design-inspired café — on Aug. 15.
ByColin McEwen
July 18, 2012

"The businessman who brought a popular South American street food restaurant to Madison Avenue now has another artsy idea up his sleeve. "

http://lakewood-oh.patch.com/articles/barroco-owner-bringing-new-flavor-to-detroit-avenue

This Juan Vergara Cat is on a roll!!

[musky]

Baltimore needs pierogies like Cleveland's Sokolowski's University Inn

It's a funny thing: Baltimore and Cleveland have a lot in common. They were both former steel making powerhouses, they had huge Polish immigrant populations and they both love food. And yet, you have to go to Cleveland to get the very best pierogies on the planet: Sokolowski's University Inn. Local chef and Iron Chef Michael Symon pronounces them "the very best thing (he) ever ate". Having opened in 1923, it's the oldest family-run restaurant in Cleveland.

http://www.examiner.com/article/baltimore-needs-pierogies-like-cleveland-s-sokolowski-s-university-inn

[Clueless,Ohio]

Black Dog opening in 3 weeks

http://www.blackdogkitchenandbar.com/2012/04/20/hello-world/

[DeanSheen]

^The beer chili and soups sound good.  I'm all over the Beef on Weck as well.