Poll

When should QB Johnny Manziel start?

Week 1 in Pittsburgh
1 (2.8%)
Weeks 2-3
1 (2.8%)
First game after the bye week
7 (19.4%)
Weeks 6-16
2 (5.6%)
No starts, but appear in special plays like wildcat formations
13 (36.1%)
Sit entire rookie season
12 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 36

Author Topic: Cleveland Browns Discussion  (Read 421250 times)

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Online MyTwoSense

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4060 on: December 16, 2012, 12:33:15 PM »
I'm predicting a loss. It will be a close game but a loss.  The Browns do not know how to close out and "finish" a team.

Cleveland.bomb is already discussing next season.
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Offline Flee2theCleve

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4061 on: December 16, 2012, 06:03:27 PM »
Welp Shurmur is gone, so is Heckert more than likely.  This game sealed both their fates.  Cousins looked solid while Weeden really hasn't progressed all year. He hasn't shown me enough to suggest he is the answer.

Offline City Blights

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4062 on: December 16, 2012, 06:25:22 PM »
In addition to Weeden not being the answer, neither are those receivers outside of Gordon.  Benjamin has talent and should have been playing more from the start, so we'll see on him.  It's time to move on from inconsistent players and get a culture of performance going in that organization.  That means Greg Little and Massaquoi should go. 

The Browns lack talent at skill positions on both sides of the ball.  The running game isn't so good that it can be as one-dimensional as it is.  Joe Haden had a bad game, and if he doesn't play well, the defense has no shot against most teams.  As good as the front four can play at times, a leaky secondary can negate achievement upfront.  Cleveland's secondary is a tick better than Detroit's, another defense whose talent on the D-line is being wasted because no matter how fast they get to the QB, somebody will be open.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 06:33:15 PM by City Blights »

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4063 on: December 16, 2012, 07:07:11 PM »
Weeden was a wasted pick, been saying that since April.  But now what do we do?

Offline ClevelandOhio

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4064 on: December 16, 2012, 07:15:04 PM »
I still would like to give McCoy another shot. Last year he had no offseason, the worst offensive line, no receivers, and a terrible running game. I went to practices this year and I thought Weeden didnt look so good while McCoy was making great passes. There was no true competition as we all know. It was Weeden's spot the second he got drafted.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4065 on: December 16, 2012, 11:12:23 PM »
I'll judge Weeden after his third year. Outside of a few genetic freaks, it takes most QBs in a good system several years to hit their stride. I see a lot of good things in Weeden and some rookie mistakes. I hope he spends the off-season working on the finer things in quarterbacking -- footwork, eye contact, coverage recognition, audibles, etc. He has all the physical tools to succeed, but has been playing quarterback for only three years in the last decade.

I do think this game may have sealed Shurmur's fate, but there's still two games to go. If the Browns play well in these last two games and don't get beat by the opponent's superior game plans, adjustments to them and execution of those adjustments (like they were today), then Shurmur may have a shot.

The Redskins were getting their butts kicked by our defense in the first quarter, only to adjust by going to bootleg passes, and they started kicking our butts. We couldn't adjust to it, so they kept running bootleg plays and we were powerless to stop it. I think I know what offensive plays the Broncos will feature next week! I couldn't watch it.

I don't have a problem with the Browns trying to pass more, since the Redskins had the 31st-ranked pass defense. But the fact they didn't use Richardson at all meant the 'Skins could ignore him and key on the pass. I'm still not sure why Shurmur kept running those underneath crossing routes that resulted in Weeden's passes over the defensive front getting knocked down (or intercepted). Shurmur seemed intent on trying to force that square peg into the round hole.

So the Redskins were able to adjust and the Browns were not. That was probably the most revealing game why  Shurmur won't be with the Browns next year.
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Online 8Titles

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4066 on: December 17, 2012, 07:51:49 AM »
I'll judge Weeden after his third year. Outside of a few genetic freaks, it takes most QBs in a good system several years to hit their stride. I see a lot of good things in Weeden and some rookie mistakes. I hope he spends the off-season working on the finer things in quarterbacking -- footwork, eye contact, coverage recognition, audibles, etc. He has all the physical tools to succeed, but has been playing quarterback for only three years in the last decade.

I do think this game may have sealed Shurmur's fate, but there's still two games to go. If the Browns play well in these last two games and don't get beat by the opponent's superior game plans, adjustments to them and execution of those adjustments (like they were today), then Shurmur may have a shot.

The Redskins were getting their butts kicked by our defense in the first quarter, only to adjust by going to bootleg passes, and they started kicking our butts. We couldn't adjust to it, so they kept running bootleg plays and we were powerless to stop it. I think I know what offensive plays the Broncos will feature next week! I couldn't watch it.

I don't have a problem with the Browns trying to pass more, since the Redskins had the 31st-ranked pass defense. But the fact they didn't use Richardson at all meant the 'Skins could ignore him and key on the pass. I'm still not sure why Shurmur kept running those underneath crossing routes that resulted in Weeden's passes over the defensive front getting knocked down (or intercepted). Shurmur seemed intent on trying to force that square peg into the round hole.

So the Redskins were able to adjust and the Browns were not. That was probably the most revealing game why  Shurmur won't be with the Browns next year.
Weeden will be lucky if he gets two years to show himself because the new FO have no ties too him, and he was fairly cheap for a 1st round QB, $9M over four years I believe.

I think Weeden has made Childress/Shurmur's Offense look worst than it is, missing wide-open WR's, or just not throwing to the right guy at all.  Reasoning behind that is McCoy put up better overall numbers with half the talent last year, and that was after no TC and Shurmur in his 1st year with no OC.

At a minimum, we better hope for a real QB competition in camp.  No more handing out jobs on draft day like the new/old Browns under Lerner.

Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4067 on: December 17, 2012, 10:06:07 AM »
What you saw yesterday was an experienced coach with a great game plan that was well executed against an inexperienced coach with a bad game plan that wasn't well executed.

This is a game of momentum.  When our defense comes out foaming at the mouth and knocking the other team around like they did in the first quarter, the offense can't supply the sedative.  It looked like we were heading for a blowout, until the offense started laying terds with both bad play calling and bad execution.

No, it's not that we need Colt in there.  We've seen what Colt can do and can't do.  Criticize Weeden all you want, and he surely had a bad game, but he still is the best QB we've had since returning to the league.

Whoever suggested above gettting rid of Little hasn't been watching lately.  The kid is really starting to play.  He hasn't had a drop since the begginning of the season, has started to pile up the YAC yards, and is an exceptional blocker.

See ya Pat.  Barely knew ya
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Offline CBC

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4068 on: December 17, 2012, 11:39:15 AM »
^ One additional note, I believe that the Redskins were also getting more fired up as the game went on see the shellacking that the Giants were taking in Atlanta. 
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Offline City Blights

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4069 on: December 17, 2012, 04:06:37 PM »

Whoever suggested above gettting rid of Little hasn't been watching lately.  The kid is really starting to play.  He hasn't had a drop since the begginning of the season, has started to pile up the YAC yards, and is an exceptional blocker.


Do you want to bet the future of the offense on Greg Little's unsure hands? 

I'd either draft a WR in the first round and be done with it, or go out and get a tight end who can be your #2 behind Gordon until your 2nd or 3rd round receiver develops into the second option.

The Browns have to be willing to be more impatient with underachieving players.  Keeping them around is perpetual rebuilding because coaches have to rebuild those players' confidence far too often.

« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 04:11:03 PM by City Blights »

Offline ClevelandOhio

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4070 on: December 17, 2012, 04:19:41 PM »

No, it's not that we need Colt in there.  We've seen what Colt can do and can't do.  Criticize Weeden all you want, and he surely had a bad game, but he still is the best QB we've had since returning to the league.


For the most part Colt had better stats than Weeden and that again was with no offseason, terrible line, no receivers, and no running game.


Offline archangel

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4071 on: December 17, 2012, 04:34:46 PM »
Weeden probably gets another year, but if it was up to me, all he'd get was a chance at the QB position, not a promise. He should never have been on the roster. Wasted pick? It's a sunk cost. Either change the offensive system to suit him or get rid of him. New coach, new OC - fine, position is up for grabs.

I think Greg Little is fine for now. He gets to play out his contract. I would not spend a high pick on WR. I'd spend it on G (depending on Pinkston recovering), CB, or LB.

I'd not keep Shurmur. He got better, but not better enough. Even if we win the last two, I don't know. It's hard to see the upside.

Online 8Titles

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4072 on: December 17, 2012, 05:08:38 PM »

No, it's not that we need Colt in there.  We've seen what Colt can do and can't do.  Criticize Weeden all you want, and he surely had a bad game, but he still is the best QB we've had since returning to the league.


For the most part Colt had better stats than Weeden and that again was with no offseason, terrible line, no receivers, and no running game.


True, and just imagine how bad Weeden would've looked last year, waiting for Robiskie & MoMass to "break open" or Jordan Norwood (instead of Benjamin) beating someone deep, all the while with whoever Pashos was supposed to block at his feet.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4073 on: December 17, 2012, 06:13:09 PM »
Do you want to bet the future of the offense on Greg Little's unsure hands? 

I'd either draft a WR in the first round and be done with it, or go out and get a tight end who can be your #2 behind Gordon until your 2nd or 3rd round receiver develops into the second option.

The Browns have to be willing to be more impatient with underachieving players.  Keeping them around is perpetual rebuilding because coaches have to rebuild those players' confidence far too often.

The 2013 draft is rich with cornerbacks and we need more help there, especially with Sheldon Brown getting up there in years.

We don't have a second round pick in 2013 because we picked up Josh Gordon in the second round of the supplemental draft. If we picked up a second round pick in a trade, then I'd go linebacker (Jarvis or Te'o) with the first round pick and then CB in the second round. There's going to be good CB's left in the early second round.
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Offline City Blights

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4074 on: December 17, 2012, 07:50:26 PM »
Do you want to bet the future of the offense on Greg Little's unsure hands? 

I'd either draft a WR in the first round and be done with it, or go out and get a tight end who can be your #2 behind Gordon until your 2nd or 3rd round receiver develops into the second option.

The Browns have to be willing to be more impatient with underachieving players.  Keeping them around is perpetual rebuilding because coaches have to rebuild those players' confidence far too often.

The 2013 draft is rich with cornerbacks and we need more help there, especially with Sheldon Brown getting up there in years.

We don't have a second round pick in 2013 because we picked up Josh Gordon in the second round of the supplemental draft. If we picked up a second round pick in a trade, then I'd go linebacker (Jarvis or Te'o) with the first round pick and then CB in the second round. There's going to be good CB's left in the early second round.

You're right, I realized that Gordon eliminated the Browns' 2nd rounder as I was posting it but was too lazy to change it.  I think corners will be around that can start immediately no matter who picks in front of Cleveland.  CBs in general have to be some of the safest first round picks. 

A corner in the first round, and possibly another one in the 3rd if there wasn't a linebacker I was in love with that slid.  WR and a run-blocking guard in free agency, TE in the 4th rd or a lineman.  We'll see how much new ownership is willing to pay for quality players that produce a winning product.  Shoring up that secondary solves a lot of the defense's issues.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 07:52:16 PM by City Blights »

Offline CBC

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4075 on: December 17, 2012, 08:18:50 PM »
 Who's been going to the games? How much Of the problem is the receivers not getting separation and/or getting knocked off their routes.It's hard to tell on TV how  much is Weeden being timid and how much is on the receiving corps?
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Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4076 on: December 18, 2012, 01:16:48 AM »
Do you want to bet the future of the offense on Greg Little's unsure hands? 

I'd either draft a WR in the first round and be done with it, or go out and get a tight end who can be your #2 behind Gordon until your 2nd or 3rd round receiver develops into the second option.

The Browns have to be willing to be more impatient with underachieving players.  Keeping them around is perpetual rebuilding because coaches have to rebuild those players' confidence far too often.

Earlier in the season, I would have had the same take.  But Little has legitimately turned a corner.  He hasn't had a drop since getting his pep talk from Zo.  His YAC has gone up and he's been used effectively with the reverse.  But what could make him an ideal #2 is his blocking ability, both at the line of scrimmage and in the open field.  He still has a lot of room to grow.  He was a RB in HS and really only played WR full time one year at UNC.
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Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4077 on: December 18, 2012, 01:50:00 AM »
There's a few unpolished, potential gems on this team -- Little, Gordon, Weeden (I feel like I just channeled Lou Brown: "There's three or four potential all-stars on this team...."). If Shurmur designed an offense around Weeden's strength, which is running the shotgun and/or a basic two-minute offense when the defensive personnel they like are on the field and can be locked in by the no-huddle, then I think we would have seen more progression from the guy. Especially if they shut off the earpiece in Weeden's helmet while he's in the no-huddle.....
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Offline CBC

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4078 on: December 18, 2012, 02:41:03 PM »
Ha Ha, WFNY has an article speculating that Weeden called the long bomb to Benjamin himself because the headset wasn't working after it was knocked off on the previous play. I love Benjamin's speed for matchup plays like that TD, it's a no brainer.

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2012/12/did-brandon-weeden-call-the-69-yard-td-pass-to-travis-benjamin-himself/#more-76296
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Offline Punch

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4079 on: December 18, 2012, 10:27:46 PM »
So, the Browns hired a new President

Cleveland Browns name Alec Scheiner their new president
 By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/12/alec_scheiner_has_agreed_to_be.html#incart_river_default

CLEVELAND, Ohio - The Browns have hired Jerry Jones' right-hand man, Dallas Cowboys senior VP and general counsel Alec Scheiner, as their new president

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Offline AJ93

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4080 on: December 19, 2012, 09:30:06 AM »
So we're going to have a CEO, President and a GM? Add a hands on owner, and there's going to be quite a line for the executive washroom.
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Offline baseballmn907

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4081 on: December 19, 2012, 09:40:52 AM »
So, on this new ensemble cast, who knows football? Anyone? Football guys? Anyone? Bueller?

Very nervous about the future of this team.  And I'm one of those eternal Browns optimists.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 09:50:51 AM by baseballmn907 »
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Offline AJ93

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4082 on: December 19, 2012, 09:44:31 AM »
Well, if they hire Lombardi, he's been an NFL sportscaster. They know everything, so we should be ok.
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Offline CBC

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4083 on: December 19, 2012, 11:22:28 AM »
^^Dammit this a business, football is secondary
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Offline mrnyc

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4084 on: December 19, 2012, 02:03:54 PM »
jerry jones right hand man??? hmmm. well if haslam ever wants to slug a player i guess he can handle that at least.
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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4085 on: December 19, 2012, 02:55:58 PM »
jerry jones right hand man??? hmmm. well if haslam ever wants to slug a player i guess he can handle that at least.

Hey.....there is nothing wrong with a little motivation!  In the future he should put a sack of oranges in a pillow case in the event he wants to punish someone. 
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Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4086 on: December 23, 2012, 07:21:22 PM »
While I guess this is a comment, today's game isn't even worth commenting on (further).
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Offline mkeller234

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4087 on: December 24, 2012, 02:03:36 AM »
yes, it was hard to watch.  They didn't seem to have much fire, especially around the 4th quarter.  They were dominated by a good team.

Online 8Titles

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4088 on: December 24, 2012, 09:00:34 AM »
The torture is almost over.  Soon Banner and company will start selling off scrap for salvage value.  I wonder how much they'll get for a 30 year-old 2nd year QB who was the 35th rated QB in the NFL this year.

Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4089 on: December 24, 2012, 11:33:31 AM »
The torture is almost over.  Soon Banner and company will start selling off scrap for salvage value.  I wonder how much they'll get for a 30 year-old 2nd year QB who was the 35th rated QB in the NFL this year.

Why would anyone try to get rid of a first-round pick who has played only three years of football in the last 10? Weeden's not going anywhere. Colt didn't do much better.

Some players did have fire. Cribbs had a meltdown on Twitter last evening and ripped the fans a new one. He deleted his first post after sending it, but the damage had been done. Lesson: don't get on Twitter an hour after a bad game and expect fans to love you or for you to say constructive things....

I see all the negativity on twitter after I gave my life to this ****. So 2 all u who are against me **** all y'all! I'm still gonna do me!
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« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 11:39:11 AM by KJP »
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Offline Hts121

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4090 on: December 30, 2012, 04:27:19 PM »
Awaiting press release.....
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Offline KJP

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4091 on: December 31, 2012, 08:57:42 AM »
Press release will be the confirmation but not the first word. Instead, I'm awaiting the first Tweets from the usual suspects: Mary Kay Cabot, Tom Withers, Tony Grossi, Daryl Ruiter, Nate Ulrich......

EDIT: Turns out it came from Fox Sports' Jay Glazer who just tweeted:

Cleveland Browns have just fired HC Pat Shurmur

Cleveland CBS Sports' Anthony Lima says two Browns players confirmed Pat Shurmur is gone.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 09:11:58 AM by KJP »
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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4092 on: December 31, 2012, 09:11:51 AM »
Heckert was just sh!t canned as expected....

Offline baseballmn907

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4093 on: December 31, 2012, 09:35:31 AM »
Just please God no Mike Lombardi.
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Offline McLovin

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Re: Cleveland Browns Discussion
« Reply #4094 on: December 31, 2012, 09:57:58 AM »
I'm highly upset that Heckert is gone is was doing a fine job and was good at finding diamonds in the rough

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