Topic: Cincinnati: Downtown - National Underground Railroad Freedom Center

[City Blights]

I agree Jim, but what I believe should have happened is that the NURFC should have been established in a much smaller venue, gained a foothold and then expanded. There is no reason that this could not have been located at say, Union Terminal, or in a small storefront in OTR, and then progressively expanded as the operations grew. Instead, we went all out on a lavish building that is money-losing and simply isn't popular.

@City Blights: Your rationales are objective at best, though. Who cares that the Creation Museum feeds into the right-wingers who don't visit the NURFC? Both are attractions. Who cares that black history is secondary to most of the population? It's irrelevant to the popularity of the museum; exhibits, programming and marketing plays a hue role in the failure and success of attractions, along with the gift shops and secondary merchandising - for which the museum is much too dependent upon for revenue (noted in the linked post in my previous text).

Let's see how it plays out when there are 300 new apartments open at The Banks, along with some storefronts and restaurants.

The societal beliefs of a large sect of the population is invalid?  A storefront in OTR??  The Freedom Center is a National museum and is supposed to be a signature of Cincinnati.  A storefront or holed up in Union Terminal doesn't cut it.  That only further marginalizes African-American history.  Marketing?  What can they do?  If the Center doesn't have money, how can they market effectively?  Its a Catch-22.

[jmecklenborg]

Just anounced that the Freedom Cneter and Museum Center are merging.  No news on what if any exhibits will be changing places.

[Gordon Bombay]

The Freedom Center is a controversial subject and has been ever since its inception. I remember in the early days of its discussion and construction, my neighbor described it as "Cincinnati trying to fix its image after the riots." I don't think it was that at all and Cincinnati certainly has a much better race relations record than other American cities.

What I always gathered from it was that the museum centered around Cincinnati's importance of being on the border in the Civil War and how important it was as a sign of freedom on the Underground Railroad. The couple of times I've been to the museum, I've really enjoyed it. It's a top notch museum from the exhibits, attractions and incredibly knowledgable staff not to mention I actually like the architecture and how it sits prominently on the riverfront.

The societal beliefs of a large sect of the population is invalid?  A storefront in OTR??  The Freedom Center is a National museum and is supposed to be a signature of Cincinnati.  A storefront or holed up in Union Terminal doesn't cut it.  That only further marginalizes African-American history.  Marketing?  What can they do?  If the Center doesn't have money, how can they market effectively?  Its a Catch-22.

A storefront in OTR is pretty ridiculous considering the caliber and content of the museum, but Sherman does have a point about marketing and the attendance figures can not be ignored. I'm not sure if it's the fault of the NURFC (or maybe that they lack a budget for it) or outside entities that promote Cincinnati tourism not including it, but I've never found the museum to be well promoted. When I used to listen to WLW, they would always play a "Cincinnati USA" commercial that I believe was made by the regional chamber. It had this catchy jingle and a family discussing coming to Cincinnati to visit the Museum Center, Aquarium, Reds games and Kings Island. I think the Freedom Center needs to get in on these things and maybe work out some co-marketing with other regional attractions (something like "Save 10% on Freedom Center Admission when you bring in your ticket stubs from the Newport Aquarium, Reds game or Kings Island). That's the point, I think Sherman was trying to make with marketing the center. All these other attractions seem to have a presence on Twitter, Facebook, Radio etc. The only time I see advertisements for things at the NURFC are when I drive by it and they have a banner up on the building.

I think the other problem with the center is that the revolving exhibits don't seem to change much. Maybe try to get more of them or do smaller ones? For example: A prominent African American artist's works go on display and they do some marketing work with the Taft, CAC etc.

Civil War history always seemed to be a big tourism thing, maybe bring in some re-enactors and do some demonstrations out in the park or in front of the building?

Guest speakers? The center has a wonderful theatre, bring in some speakers and in turn with your admission you get to check out the museum.

I'm not sure whatever happened with the potential Smithsonian acquirement, but the museum is definitely of that caliber.

The piece of the Berlin Wall they have on display is awesome, but aside from hearing about it on here, I don't remember hearing much about it. I always wondered why they never had an exhibit about Germany being split after World War 2. I saw a similar exhibit at the Newseum back in 2001 and the exhibit was PACKED. It seems with Cincinnati's German heritage and Germany's quest for freedom from a split nation would be a no brainer. Easier said than done though.

What I'm trying to get at is that the Center has A LOT of potential to not only be marketed as a destination that can be seen with other destinations in the region, but to do a lot of unique exhibits.

I think the merger with the Museum Center will really help and I hope it does. Regardless, the museum needs to stay. It's a fabulous institution. Movie theatres are a dime a dozen, there's one right across the river and unless Twighlight or Harry Potter are debuting, it's always pretty empty. I only use it out of convenience.

[OCtoCincy]

NURFC is a huge, great museum. Really a treasure for the region. Unfortunately, people who hate tha Banks also hate the NURFC and see them as equal "boondoggles". As the Banks has come online much of the anti-Banks rants have been silenced, although there are
Still plenty of people who don't think it will be successful.

NURFC is another story. Great quality but not the best outreach & management. Gaining the skills behind the CMC will help a lot. This is a great move.

[Sherman Cahal]

How did I miss City Blights blatant misinterpretation of my comment?

Yes, the Freedom Center should have started small. A museum in a storefront is a great starting place - many museums are in storefronts, including the Lincoln Museum in Hodgensville, Kentucky (arguably a very notable figure), the Kentucky Museum of Art and Craft, COSI in Columbus et. al. And as museums can grow and need more space due to increasing attendance numbers and revenue figures, they can size up into larger buildings. In this case, you have a museum that did not exist that desired a mammoth and costly building that is expensive to maintain and operate. They publicly stated they did not desire taxpayer dollars, but when they were about to fail quite a while back, they caved in and received $20 million to subsidize a museum that never had a great business or marketing model to begin with.

The Museum Center is in a different boat. Their building, the Union Terminal, is aging and needs significant repairs. A levy is being requested, but not to fund the museum - it is to repair the building and to prevent even more costly repairs down the road. But the Museum Center did not always start out in the Union Terminal, and their various functions were held in much smaller venues for years.

[jmecklenborg]

I bet the lawn will be kept a lawn until the long-term future of the Freedom Center is established.  I think we'll eventaully see the Freedom Center phased out and a push by the museum center, or another cultural institution, to build another meseum-type structure on that land, perhaps as part of the same institution, but possibly completely independent.  Basically zero people are happy with the appearance of the Freedeom Center and the "skyline" view of it obviously can be blocked by construction of a similarly-sized building in front of it.   

[Jimmy_James]

Basically zero people are happy with the appearance of the Freedeom Center and the "skyline" view of it obviously can be blocked by construction of a similarly-sized building in front of it.   

Really?  I love that building.

[bfwissel]

Really?  I love that building.

+1.  Not sure why there is so much hate of that building.

[natininja]

I like it, too.

[OCtoCincy]

Same here.

[jmblec2]

me too.

[ProkNo5]

It's a fantastic building.  I still think that it should be used as the new Union Terminal and the Freedom Center should move to the old Union Terminal.

[natininja]

I think the Freedom Center deserves to be on the river. Powerful, powerful symbolism.

Doesn't mean Union Terminal couldn't become a secondary train station after one in a more prominent location. Heck, maybe the Freedom Center could serve as a museum and a train station. There seems to be a lot of empty space there. And someone told me there is a city where a museum and train station share a building, so it must be doable...can't remember where that is right now.

[ProkNo5]

I think the Freedom Center deserves to be on the river. Powerful, powerful symbolism.

Doesn't mean Union Terminal couldn't become a secondary train station after one in a more prominent location. Heck, maybe the Freedom Center could serve as a museum and a train station. There seems to be a lot of empty space there. And someone told me there is a city where a museum and train station share a building, so it must be doable...can't remember where that is right now.

...ummm are you thinking of Cincinnati?  The current Union Terminal is both a museum and train station.  LOL.  But yes, I agree that there's probably room for both.

[natininja]

I think the Freedom Center deserves to be on the river. Powerful, powerful symbolism.

Doesn't mean Union Terminal couldn't become a secondary train station after one in a more prominent location. Heck, maybe the Freedom Center could serve as a museum and a train station. There seems to be a lot of empty space there. And someone told me there is a city where a museum and train station share a building, so it must be doable...can't remember where that is right now.

...ummm are you thinking of Cincinnati?  The current Union Terminal is both a museum and train station.  LOL.  But yes, I agree that there's probably room for both.

Ah, that's the one! Thanks!

[Ram23]

Wow, a lot of unjustifiable love for the Freedom Center in here.  The only redeeming qualities it has are the materials.  The detailing is horrible everywhere - a lot of connections between materials weren't thought through.  The interior is set up poorly - the size of the spaces don't coordinate with the type of exhibits. I could go on, but it'd probably be in vain because the politics around the building are more important than the quality of the building; it could look like a WalMart and everyone would still love it.

[Civvik]

Wow, a lot of unjustifiable love for the Freedom Center in here.  The only redeeming qualities it has are the materials.  The detailing is horrible everywhere - a lot of connections between materials weren't thought through.  The interior is set up poorly - the size of the spaces don't coordinate with the type of exhibits. I could go on, but it'd probably be in vain because the politics around the building are more important than the quality of the building; it could look like a WalMart and everyone would still love it.

That's not true. I think it's a decent building, and plenty of others here do as well, which is a group of people who are at least somewhat credible on the topic. As much as credibility is relevant to personal taste, anyhow.

[natininja]

I think it's an attractive building from the outside. No politics. I just like the look of it.

[City Blights]

Wow, a lot of unjustifiable love for the Freedom Center in here.  The only redeeming qualities it has are the materials.  The detailing is horrible everywhere - a lot of connections between materials weren't thought through.  The interior is set up poorly - the size of the spaces don't coordinate with the type of exhibits. I could go on, but it'd probably be in vain because the politics around the building are more important than the quality of the building; it could look like a WalMart and everyone would still love it.

Read: If you don't hate it like I do, you're clueless.

Having a surplus of square feet in the museum's early years could be beneficial.  The Banks, Smale and the Streetcar all figure to get more people through the doors.  The Freedom Center isn't dead and there's no point in trying to kill it before it gets a fair shot at survival.  Sitting on 2nd like an island up until now was not easy.

[OCtoCincy]

Also, the interior use of space by a non-profit has nothing to do with people's opinions on the design & the way it fits into the skyline.

It's shockingly immature to say everyone who likes it is being "political". That's coasts argument and it's a really poor one.

[bfwissel]

It's shockingly immature to say everyone who likes it is being "political". That's coasts argument and it's a really poor one.

+1

[Ram23]

Also, the interior use of space by a non-profit has nothing to do with people's opinions on the design & the way it fits into the skyline.

It's shockingly immature to say everyone who likes it is being "political". That's coasts argument and it's a really poor one.

Did someone say that somewhere?

My argument still stands, there isn't much architecturally to be fond of regarding that building.  For what it cost per square foot, it should be beautiful, but it isn't even close. It's a hodgepodge of bad ideas and poor execution.

As for the "interior use of space by a non-profit" is exactly what the building should have been designed for.  Most museums built in the last 30 years or so integrate exhibits flawlessly.  The Freedom Center doesn't have the basic necessary provisions for that. That's beside my original point, though.  I was mostly speaking of the volume of the interior; it's cavernous for no real reason at all.

[natininja]

^ I can't comment on the interior, but my opinion of the exterior is that it's quite nice. Whether my aesthetic taste is objectively valid or not. (In other words...who made you the arbiter of good taste?)

I find most contemporary buildings horrendous. Those are probably buildings you would find to be spectacular.

[City Blights]

Also, the interior use of space by a non-profit has nothing to do with people's opinions on the design & the way it fits into the skyline.

It's shockingly immature to say everyone who likes it is being "political". That's coasts argument and it's a really poor one.

Did someone say that somewhere?

My argument still stands, there isn't much architecturally to be fond of regarding that building.  For what it cost per square foot, it should be beautiful, but it isn't even close. It's a hodgepodge of bad ideas and poor execution.

As for the "interior use of space by a non-profit" is exactly what the building should have been designed for.  Most museums built in the last 30 years or so integrate exhibits flawlessly.  The Freedom Center doesn't have the basic necessary provisions for that. That's beside my original point, though.  I was mostly speaking of the volume of the interior; it's cavernous for no real reason at all.

It takes close to six hours to see everything the Freedom Center is exhibiting at any given time.  Their operating hours are from 11am-5pm.  I feel they have quite a bit in that building, and we haven't seen what could be done with the space if the Center were to experience a little financial relief.  Better attendance will relax the financial burden the City has been under while supporting one of its landmark cultural assets, just as it should have.