Topic: Cleveland: Lakefront Development News

[Oldmanladyluck]

I felt that the paper (and the business interests in the region) would want the Port to move to Burke instead of waiting 20+ years for the CDF to fill (remember, Dike 14 was begun in the 70s... the E.55th site plan is more than 2 times that size).

I have to say that this makes more sense- I still haven't bought into the idea of moving the Port to E.55th based on the time line given.  I know the logistics regarding site attributes, however waiting 20 years for the port to move is longer than I would like to see as a resident of this region.  I know I'm not alone on this.

If Chicago and Kansas City can close their airports to open up land for development, it can be done here.  This is our lakefront, and we deserve better. 

[Hootenany]

^I wonder if they could open up the far east end of Burke as a public park space with areas to fish, volleyball courts, playing fields, etc...

That would appease those that want access to the lake while keeping Burke open as a functional airport.

[Matches]

As a player myself, I just love that every new project idea these days seems to include volleyball courts

Burke is ginormous.  If the airport shuts down, they should have plenty of room for public access via Marginal.

[Hootenany]

^Why shut down Burke?  There is PLENTY of room on the far East end of Burke for a public park.  It could also be easily accessed with an entrance off Marginal at Aviation High.

[Htsguy]

Haven't a number of posters explained in detail in the past that it is almost impossible to build anything of consequence on Burke's land due to the makeup of the land and environmental issues (or at least that would not be cost prohibitive). 

[Coneybear]

The northeast part of Burke is really unstable. I don't think there's going to ever be a public park there.

[Matches]

^Why shut down Burke?  There is PLENTY of room on the far East end of Burke for a public park.  It could also be easily accessed with an entrance off Marginal at Aviation High.

The whole point is to de-airport the land to use some of it for port operations, eliminating the need to spend $500 million+ and 40-50 years building a new area for the port at E. 55th.  They certainly would not need all the airport land for maritime bidniss, but dreams of making it into a neighborhood or developed are probably ill-conceived, since the area is completely shut off from the rest of the city by the shoreway, etc. 

[McCleveland]

I covered all of this over a handful of posts on pages 19 and 20.

We aren't waiting 20+ years to "develop the existing port land", we're developing it in phases over 20+ years.  That's a big difference. If we could snap our fingers and move the port tomorrow, that plan wouldn't change.  There isn't the demand to develop a site the size of almost a quarter of downtown in a short period of time.  Additionally, I've talked to some people at the city and several commercial real estate folks in the past about this.  E.55th is the chosen site because from a logistical and access point of view it blows everything else out of the water hands down.  The only real discussion I ever heard were that there were factions that always thought a 200 acre port was way too large given that our current 110 acre port is underutilized as is.  Some want the new port no larger than the current one.  And yes... parts of Burke are indeed toxic, not all, but parts.  Which will be a big challenge to develop.  Not to mention... Burke is almost the size of all of downtown cleveland.  The way the current port is set up, and the fact that they want to continue to consolidate operations to allow for development of the current land before finally tranfering to the new facility, we shouldn't run into a land crunch on the existing port land for at least 15 years, at least.  By then, enough of the new dyke should be constructed that they can beginning moving operations.

[Matches]

I understand that the port land can not be developed overnight.  However I would hate to see the area and spinoff developments stagnate because we're waiting on fill to pile up at E. 55th.  If/when the time becomes right and the market is ripe for development, it would be good to not have stuff in the way of it.

[McCleveland]

But again, I think many people are missing the intention of the plan which is for the port to consolidate to allow for continued development over time.  Like I said, i think we're a waaayyysss out (at least 15 years) from the port getting in the way of anything.  And the port NEEDS to allow this to happen and sell land for their relocation.  And by the time we've used up land from the consolidation the fill should be to the point of allowing the start of relocation.

[Hts121]

People should take a good look at the Port's land with a satellite image.  Think about the current prospects for a complete development of the FEB and then compare the size of that land to the size of the Port's land.  Look at the size of the WHD parking lot's and do the same comparison.  I think you would conclude that Mr. Mayor's "at least" 15 year estimate is optimistic at best.  That is, unless any of you have a couple billion dollars to lend to a developer willing to roll the dice.

While I was originally opposed to the E 55th proposal, I have grown to appreciate the reasons why it makes such sense given our desire to become a "container" port.  That access to rail and road can't be beat from that spot.  And the Shoreway effectively blocks any meaningful development in that area anyway.  Sorry Quay 55 folks... love what you did with that "shell" of a building, but it is what it is.

But given the current issues that seem to be possibly blocking the 55 site, which to my understanding is funding for the new dike... why again can't we use Dike 14?  Is it solely environmental concerns due to migratory bird paths?

[Hootenany]

^IIRC they couldn't use dike 14 simply because it wasn't constructed to support infrastructure.  Doesn't have the necessary retaining walls and wasn't packed tightly to support port infrastructure.

The Corps of Engineers is going to need a dump site for river dredgings anyway, so why not let them create land for our new port?  I was under the impression that the city/port would only be responsible for the additional costs associated with making the dike stable enough for port operations.  Doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.

[musky]

Regardless of what powers decide where the new port operations go, a new containment facility MUST be built. It will likely be be built were the proposed port relocation is planned.

[ClevelandOhio]

i was wondering what was going on in the lot across east 9th from the RRHOF, i know that the building was demolished awhile back and was wondering if there was any plans for that lot

[Burnham_2011]

I've got an out-of-the-blue question.   Can anyone tell me what the "broader" visions for the Quay 55 development and surrounding areas was?  Was there a Phase 2, so to speak?  Anyone know anyone that lives out there?  It just seems so desolate and lonely, if beautifully situated on the lake.

[Hts121]

I thought I heard once that Lebron had one of the units.  I've never heard of a phase two.  As far as the surrounding area, the new port was to go just to the east.

[Clevelover]

Here's a link to their site which shows Phase II Townhomes, etc:

http://www.quay55.com/html/faq.htm

[Flee2theCleve]

Also from that site:

What are the different phases of Quay 55?

 

    Phase I:

        Renovation of the Nicholson Cleveland Terminal Building into Quay 55’s 138 residential apartments.

    Phase II:   

        Construction of approximately 70 lakeside townhomes along the land directly east of the building.

    Phase III:   

        Proposed development of a multi-level office, restaurant and entertainment complex across the harbor from Quay 55.

    Phase IV:   

        Proposed development of a private marina in the harbor adjacent to Quay 55.

     

[X]

Those plans are old.  I don't know if they are still pursuing them.

[ClevelandOhio]

What are their occupancy rates anyways?

[roserob]

im pretty sure Quay was sold in a HUD bankruptcy auction

[roserob]

Since this thread was revived, are the Lakefront plans around CBS abandoned entirely?  Those proposals for that area were excellent, I'd would be really upset if nothing happened down there

[327]

IIRC those plans involved moving the port to E55th, which now isn't happening.  I'm guessing the plans will need to be reworked in light of that change in circumstance.

[Hootenany]

IIRC those plans involved moving the port to E55th, which now isn't happening.  I'm guessing the plans will need to be reworked in light of that change in circumstance.

I thought they could still move forward with the Easternmost portion of that development, near the Science Center?  I thought I heard that the port was still willing to sell some of that land North and Northeast of Browns stadium, but we haven't heard boo about that lately.

[8ShadesofGray]

I could be crazy, but wasn't the easternmost buildings / lots a) not currently being utilized (outside of surface parking) and b) already under city ownership? Last I had heard, they were still looking to do some development on that particular part of the site.

[Scav]

Cleveland Browns pitch mixed-use lakefront vision, hope to attract Cleveland Clinic, private investors
Published: Wednesday, April 20, 2011, 12:01 AM
  By Michelle Jarboe, The Plain Dealer


CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Cleveland Browns are making an economic-development play, attempting to lure the private sector to the edge of Lake Erie.
Leaders of the football franchise said Tuesday that they envision a mixed-use project, including athletic fields and a potential sports-medicine or wellness facility, on more than 20 acres north of Cleveland Browns Stadium.


http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/04/cleveland_browns_pitch_mixed-u.html

[Whipjacka]

not saying that this is any more likely than the other lakefront plans, but I like that they have ideas for actual tenants and uses in this plan.  The other plans relied on the notion that "they" would develop, whomever "they" may be.

[X]

I like the way they take the open space axis of the Malls and extend it out to the Lakefront.

[gottaplan]

I like it.  Anything that does more to attract people to downtown & utilize the waterfront.  Create more of a destination with Voinovich park and increase the traffic on the E. 9th Lakefront  RTA stop...

[restless8052]

So would this be in place of the residential plan they had outlined a year or so back?

[mikel]

It looks like the plan has them building a parking garage over the tracks where the Amtrak station is.  Does this mean a new Amtrak station?

[surfohio]

Even though it's larval stage, this is already my favorite development project.

[Hootenany]

*yawn*

Just another plan with no realistic path to becoming reality (yet).  I do like how they incorporate Browns stadium more in this proposal than in some of the others.  I like the idea of bridging the RR tracks with a parking garage... that seems to be a good use of that difficult piece of real estate.  I wish they would have pushed the idea of extending the Mall over the tracks.

[Hootenany]

It looks like the plan has them building a parking garage over the tracks where the Amtrak station is.  Does this mean new Amtrak station?

Good catch.  I do like the possibilities here.  Most of the ground level (track level) of the parking garage would likely be dedicated to the station.  The parking garage could also create a more pleasant, covered station platform. 

[CleveChiNola]

This may be the first time a non gov't agency has pushed this.  I think the Browns are looking for more revenue from the stadium, but right now there is no reason to be near there, unless it is a game. 

Its the most viable plan in the past 20 years. (But, that really isn't saying too much)


I wonder what the is timeline for this vision?  It seems like a bit of jumping the gun to ask RTA to extend free trolley's at this point.