Northeast Ohio: Regionalism News & Discussion

[Mov2Ohio]

Great response Mayday. Shs you can also go Harvard to Broadway Avenue and boom you're downtown. Or Harvard to 77, or Harvard to 176.

[shs96]

Suburban Detroit (Oakland County to be exact), wanted to add one lane in each direction to I-75 for about a 12 mile stretch. Total Estimated Price tag? Came in at about 1.5 Billion dollars.

Its not apples to apples here, but the point is, trying to go back and and fix/widen/etc. highways where its not surrounded by farms is absurdly expensive and the costs greatly outweigh the benefits (i.e. you getting there 18 seconds quicker).

It just seems like your only goal is to quickly move cars across the region at the expense of others. Quite literally at the expense of someone like MayDay (100% Car free) or Me (75% car free). Our taxes have to subsidize your 6 lane Route 8 through whatever suburb you're trying to go to. Gas taxes don't cover the cost of road construction and associated infrastructure, and not a single road in the region sure as hell ain't paying for itself.

OK, many good points here, and in other posts.  My goal is to quickly move cars (not even cars, PEOPLE) across the region, but certainly not at the expense of others.  It all originates from my belief that in order for regionalism to work, people in outer ring suburbs need to be able to more easily get to downtown and inner-ring suburbs to see the benefits from regionalism (and help progress it in other ways than financial consolidation).  Chagrin Falls isn't going to suddenly be a better place due to regionalism, at least not from the perspective of someone living there.  The surrounding area will become a better place, but if the Chagrin Falls resident can't see/experience that, they aren't going to care.  Less negative articles in the paper or stories on the evening news aren't going to cut it.  Maybe not the way it should be, but that's the way it is.

I guess I'm just looking at it from the perspective of someone who grew up in the suburbs and has slowly seen the bad parts of town expand (talk to my dad, who grew up in Bedford, and whose parents grew up in Bedford).  People in the outer ring have zero confidence in the leaders of this city to do anything other than screw things up (and, IMO, for good reason).  People aren't going to suddenly move from out to in (even though I did) but one way to get their influence on the struggling parts of town is by giving them a reason to go there - and a method of getting there that is practical.  And right now, i don't see that to be the case.

[shs96]

Great response Mayday. Shs you can also go Harvard to Broadway Avenue and boom you're downtown. Or Harvard to 77, or Harvard to 176.

To get to where I am about to live (Stonebridge) to where I work (Highland Hills) any current method of using entirely public transport would take nearly an hour (according to the RTA timetables).  I don't want to take 480/77.  I'll probably end up driving through Shaker Square, down Van Aken...I just see easy improvements that could made by an experienced traffic engineer.  And I see lots of room for improvements on other major routes as well.  Luckily, I'll be on foot all weekend and after work.

If the rapid were to expand, I would definately take that...took the bus to school for a whole year in Europe, and saw most of the Continent without ever setting foot in a car...loved it.

[Mov2Ohio]

Great response Mayday. Shs you can also go Harvard to Broadway Avenue and boom you're downtown. Or Harvard to 77, or Harvard to 176.

To get to where I am about to live (Stonebridge) to where I work (Highland Hills) any current method of using entirely public transport would take nearly an hour (according to the RTA timetables).  I don't want to take 480/77.  I'll probably end up driving through Shaker Square, down Van Aken...I just see easy improvements that could made by an experienced traffic engineer.  And I see lots of room for improvements on other major routes as well.  Luckily, I'll be on foot all weekend and after work.

If the rapid were to expand, I would definately take that...took the bus to school for a whole year in Europe, and saw most of the Continent without ever setting foot in a car...loved it.

You're right improvements definitely need to be made. I was just pointing out that there are other, less complicated ways of avoiding 480/77 and without having to do Van Aken-Shaker-Woodland. (That light at Van Aken/Warrensville/Chagrin/Northfield, takes up half the trip time anyway!!)

I like Harvard because for the most part there's not tons of traffic lights and traffic there and on Broadway avenue tends to be less than on the more central Avenues/Boulevards.

[X]

The problems is that the kind of things you are saying are small, but substantial improvements for regional circulation are also small, but substantial barriers to creating the kinds of neighborhoods that actually become destinations.  Adding turn lanes makes streets wider at the crosswalks which are the pedestrian/motorist conflict point where it matters most.  Removing street parking makes it difficult for businesses without individual lots to cater to customers who want to drop in quickly while going to or from some other destination.  Just about any improvement to traffic flow is going to make that street a less pleasant place to walk or bike along, not to mention live or recreate along because of extra noise, dust, and commotion.

I see your point about regional connection, but don't you think that someone who has already gone to the trouble to move to an inaccessible location like Chagrin Falls seems to have made their choice about access?  Might it not be better to focus on making places that more people will want to access, and let them worry about situating themselves to those locations?

[KJP]

shs96, here's a couple of options I came up with (see below). There are other options, but I list these as examples. These work out to 43-49 minutes travel time each way. The Settlers Landing station is, of course, within walking distance of Stonebridge. If you miss your bus/train at Warrensville at the end of the Blue Line, there is a Starbucks at the station there where you can kill some time (or cool down/warm up). The Blue Line Cafe (across the parking lot to your left if you're eastbound) has great food! And hopping off the train at Shaker Square to have dinner, breakfast, or do some shopping is always an option. Might be more fun than I-77/I-480....

EASTBOUND

Option #1

#67X (Blue Line)
 718A Dp Settlers Landing Waterfront Line Station
 750A Ar Warrensville Blue Line Station (tell the Rapid driver to radio the #14 bus driver to hold for transfer)
#14bus
 750A Dp Warrensville/Chagrin
 801A Ar Highland Hills

Option #2

#67X (Blue Line)
 749A Dp Settlers Landing Waterfront Line Station
 821A Ar Warrensville Blue Line Station
#14bus
 826A Dp Warrensville/Chagrin
 837A Ar Highland Hills

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

WESTBOUND

Option #1

#14bus
 511P Dp Highland Hills
 525P Ar Warrensville/Van Aken (tell the bus driver to radio the Rapid driver to hold for transfer)
#67X (Blue Line)
 526P Dp Warrensville Blue Line Station
 554P Ar Settlers Landing Waterfront Line Station

Option #2

#14bus
 552P Dp Highland Hills
 606P Ar Warrensville/Van Aken
#67X (Blue Line)
 613P Dp Warrensville Blue Line Station
 641P Ar Settlers Landing Waterfront Line Station

Also note that the #94 bus serves Highland Hills and links directly to the Green Road station at the end of the Green Line that goes to Tower City. It's a little slower option, and the Green Road station has no retail, coffee shops, etc. around it, but this is an option nonetheless. Always nice to have choices....

And, by the way, welcome to Cleveland!

[shs96]

shs96, here's a couple of options I came up with (see below)....

Wow - thanks!  I'll definately give each of those a try, at least once, to see how it goes.  Really, nothing is better than using public transportation.  Driving is kind of an extention of work - when you leave your house, you're starting your work day.  Hop on public transport, and it's like bonus time of entertainment before you actually do anything - reading, listening to music/talk show, people watching - anything but road rage!

[MayDay]

Keep us posted - I feel for you, since you're reverse commuting but unlike places like Independence, there's really no direct/easy route there. Your situation (working in an outer 'burb) is why I hate to hear when a company decides to locate out in the sticks - it makes it difficult for workers to be car-free. I'm pretty sure the PD had a good article about the dangers of companies being inaccessible to inner-city residents.

[MyTwoSense]

shs96, here's a couple of options I came up with (see below)....

Wow - thanks!  I'll definately give each of those a try, at least once, to see how it goes.  Really, nothing is better than using public transportation.  Driving is kind of an extention of work - when you leave your house, you're starting your work day.  Hop on public transport, and it's like bonus time of entertainment before you actually do anything - reading, listening to music/talk show, people watching - anything but road rage!

I think your time on the train from Shaker Square to Van Aken/Warrensville will be shortened as most commuters will be on westbound platforms.  If there is no passenger at/on a platform or rider doesn't signal the driver to stop at the upcoming station, they will just by pass the station. 

Bring a book!

[westakron1]

Suburban Detroit (Oakland County to be exact), wanted to add one lane in each direction to I-75 for about a 12 mile stretch. Total Estimated Price tag? Came in at about 1.5 Billion dollars.

Its not apples to apples here, but the point is, trying to go back and and fix/widen/etc. highways where its not surrounded by farms is absurdly expensive and the costs greatly outweigh the benefits (i.e. you getting there 18 seconds quicker).

It just seems like your only goal is to quickly move cars across the region at the expense of others. Quite literally at the expense of someone like MayDay (100% Car free) or Me (75% car free). Our taxes have to subsidize your 6 lane Route 8 through whatever suburb you're trying to go to. Gas taxes don't cover the cost of road construction and associated infrastructure, and not a single road in the region sure as hell ain't paying for itself.

OK, many good points here, and in other posts.  My goal is to quickly move cars (not even cars, PEOPLE) across the region, but certainly not at the expense of others.  It all originates from my belief that in order for regionalism to work, people in outer ring suburbs need to be able to more easily get to downtown and inner-ring suburbs to see the benefits from regionalism (and help progress it in other ways than financial consolidation).  Chagrin Falls isn't going to suddenly be a better place due to regionalism, at least not from the perspective of someone living there.  The surrounding area will become a better place, but if the Chagrin Falls resident can't see/experience that, they aren't going to care.  Less negative articles in the paper or stories on the evening news aren't going to cut it.  Maybe not the way it should be, but that's the way it is.

I guess I'm just looking at it from the perspective of someone who grew up in the suburbs and has slowly seen the bad parts of town expand (talk to my dad, who grew up in Bedford, and whose parents grew up in Bedford).  People in the outer ring have zero confidence in the leaders of this city to do anything other than screw things up (and, IMO, for good reason).  People aren't going to suddenly move from out to in (even though I did) but one way to get their influence on the struggling parts of town is by giving them a reason to go there - and a method of getting there that is practical.  And right now, i don't see that to be the case.

What's wrong with Bedford?

[Mov2Ohio]

A REGION UNITING?
Regionalism in Louisville working, but black political power dwindles

Sunday, August 26, 2007
Robert L. SmithPlain Dealer Reporter
Optimism is in rich supply in the "Big Lou" these days, and why not?

Louisville, Ky., is rapidly reclaiming its waterfront, replacing scrap yards with parkland. New condos and historic restorations are awakening a once-sleepy downtown, and a new skyscraper is on the way.

Employers are investing, and how. Last year, UPS announced a $1 billion expansion of its distribution hub at Louisville International Airport, promising 5,000 new jobs.

More at
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/118811879185000.xml&coll=2&thispage=3

[E Rocc]

The ozone regulations have some impact on promoting industrial sprawl, but the big cause is still CERCLA (brownfields).  The solution is similar though:  giving a regulatory break to companies that locate in high unemployment areas. 

Even though his personal lifestyle seems far closer to the norm here than mine, it sounds to me like shs is saying what I've been saying for awhile:  consider the car-preferring sprawl-friendly suburbanites to be like wayward children in need of correction and control and you minimize your own influence. 

[shs96]

What's wrong with Bedford?

it's not the same quality of suburb city as it was 20-30 years ago.  And with all of the industry there, it should be (auto-mile, UH, Ford stamping plant, etc).  If you ask long time residents, they say the start of it was around the same time Bedford Heights allowed section 8 housing to be built.  My grandma eventually had to sell the only house she ever had owned (and the house my dad grew up in) after it was broken into for the second time in a year.  Granted, it was in Oakwood, but Bedford School district (Oakwood, Bedford, Bedford Heights, and Walton Hills).  It's not a "bad" area, but it has just declined over the years.

[E Rocc]

I grew up in Maple Heights and lived there until recently, and now live in Bedford and I'll vouch for what shs says....except Section 8 housing isn't built, it's converted by landlords.  Maple, Bedford Hts, and Oakwood have all declined strongly and Bedford's declined somewhat.

 Walton Hills has held out largely because its zoning (large lots) isn't conducive to absentee landlord property.  They are desperately trying to escape the Bedford School district where they are 25% of the tax base and about zero percent of the enrollment.

[w28th]

Black leaders complaining about dilluted representation in a regional government is bullsh!t in my opinion.  If your city is more successful and more people have jobs, isn't that what's really important?
This issue goes right to the core of politicians' motivations; looking out for themselves as opposed to that of the greater good.

[E Rocc]

"Black leaders complaining about dilluted representation in a regional government is bullsh!t in my opinion.  If your city is more successful and more people have jobs, isn't that what's really important?"

In a word:  no.  Minority communities in general and the black community in particular are afflicted with self-appointed leaders who are more interested in brokering blocs of votes than in the economic success of their people.  The economically disadvantaged have always been more likely to vote in blocs.

[Vulpster03]

I was glad to see this article. As a strong proponent of regionalism I of course enjoyed the positive press on the topic. But I'm dying to know what the next step is. When are people going to get together and start drafting a charter for a new metropolitan government?

[musky]

I cannot think of one politician that will help spearhead it, so it's up to the people. An d the people who would most likely be the ones to gather signatures (ballot measure) and push for it are a polar opposites and are largely a minority in the region.

[musky]

Chagrin Valley Sun:

Hunting Valley takes the plunge Cleveland will help with Daisy Hill water main project
Thursday, August 23, 2007
By FRANCINE SUDA
Chagrin Herald Sun

HUNTING VALLEY The village took the plunge into the Cleveland Division of Water's sharing pool last week, just in time to qualify for the division's help in its $1.8 million Daisy Hill water main project.

Mayor John Wheeler said the division seems to be looking for projects, "and we have one."

In exchange for help from Cleveland with water mains, the measure requires participating suburbs to share taxes from any Cleveland business which relocates to that suburb.

More at
http://www.cleveland.com/chagrinheraldsun/news/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1187808988286850.xml&coll=4

[musky]

City of Cleveland Press Release:

From: Office of the Mayor and the Department of Public Utilities
Andrea V. Taylor, Press Secretary (216) 664-4171 or (216) 857-7998
Alan Seifullah, Public Relations Director, Utilities
(216) 664-2444, extension 5640

Media Advisory:
August 30, 2007

Cities of Cleveland and Aurora, Portage County Reshape Business Practices for a Successful Future

CLEVELAND – In another landmark move that continues to support regionalism under the leadership of Cleveland Mayor Frank G. Jackson, a Water Service Agreement has been reached between Cleveland, Aurora and Portage County.

What: Ceremonial Signing of Water Service Agreement between the Cities of Cleveland, Aurora, and Portage County

Who: Mayor Frank Jackson, Aurora Mayor Lynn E. McGill and Portage County Commissioners Maureen T. Frederick, Christopher Smeiles and Charles W. Keiper II.

When: Thursday, August 30, 2007 at 11:00 am

Where: “The Woodlands at Robinson” Portage County Nursing Home, 6831 North Chestnut Street, Ravenna, Ohio 44266

Additional Contacts:
City of Aurora – Mayor Lynn E. McGill, (330) 995-9123
Portage County – Commissioner Charles W. Keiper II, (330) 297-3600
Cleveland Water …Vital to our region’s quality of life.
- 30 -

[jar3232]

Good for Mayor Jackson and the region...He gets a lot of bad press, but seems to be getting A LOT of things done...I like the water idea, it is smart, using what the city has to leverage support...

I couldn't find an article on here, but a week ago they did a piece on the mayor of Westlake trying to block the building of a new exchange in Avon because it would steal their businesses...A lot of pieces seem to be falling into place, interesting to see how "regionalism" will play out here in the near future...

Other than attend rallies and word of mouth, what can a mere peasant do to help the cause? 

[musky]

King Jackson continues to conquer the region.

pd:

Cleveland to take over East Cleveland waterlines as part of deal
Tuesday, September 25, 2007
Henry J. Gomez
Plain Dealer Reporter

Cleveland has struck a deal to take over East Cleveland's waterlines - a deal that officials said is likely to bring cheaper rates to an inner-ring suburb that has struggled with its own water department.

In return, the cities will share income taxes from employers that might relocate from one to the other and limit other tax breaks used to attract and retain companies.

More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com

[AJ93]

I'll say this: reading this thread has been educational. I have not been an ardent supporter of Jackson's administration to date, but reading some of these articles indicates to me that he's working quietly on an issue that is of incredible importance.

I believe Orange is in the middle of negotiating a similar agreement with the city, if the City Council minutes are any indication. The good news here is they actually have a commercial base that could help in any tax sharing plans.

[shs96]

I wonder if suburbintes know some of us hate going to the burbs as much some of them coming to the city.

Ms. Peabody, I couldn't have said that better myself!  You go gurl!

I'm stealing this from the Steelyard Commons thread and bringing it over here.

In my opinion, this is the biggest hurdle for regionalism.  Innner Ring doesn't like the outer ring and vice versa.  Frankly, inner ring people are more proponents of regionalism than outer ring folks because they are the ones seeing the most deterioration.  Meanhwile, outer ring people like the thought, but think there are too many unresponsible people in the inner ring for it to work - just a waste of time and money.

Frankly, being born and rasied in Solon and now living downtown, I see why people would like both.  The disconnect is the outer ring doesn't think the inner (as a whole) is capable of managing any kind of civic project or maintain any kind of region wide prosperity.  Meanwhile the inner ring simply resents the outer ring but wants their money; could care less if they can enjoy the benefits of the the city, after all, they left to begin with.

As long as there is a line of division as denoted in the quote above, it will always be every man for themselves.

[MyTwoSense]

degenerates??



Pope: edited for language.

[shs96]

degenerates??



Pope: edited for language.

OK, I changed the language...not sure what that has to do with anything.  Still, I think the word is a fitting description...definitions:

Having declined, as in function or nature, from a former or original state

Having fallen to an inferior or undesirable state, especially in mental or moral qualities.

[the pope]

I edited MTS's post for language. If you guys want to debate perceptions of the inner-outer rings and the city proper, go right ahead but keep it level headed please.

[musky]

AIA:

Limited Seating - Reserve Now!  The Electrical League of Ohio presents

REGIONALISM;      Can It Save Northeast Ohio?

So many questions - What are the answers?

A panel forum with top city leaders

Peter Lawson Jones, Cuyahoga County Commissioner
Sam Miller, Co-Chairman, Forest City Enterprises
Deborah Sutherland, Bay Village Mayor, Secretary of County Mayors and City Managers Association

Wednesday, October 10
8:00 am -  Continental Breakfast
8:30 am - Panel Forum - Westfield Theater
Idea Center at Playhouse Square
Home of 90.3 WCPN and WVIZ/PBS
1385 Euclid Avenue
$25 Members / $32.50 Non-Members

An in-depth panel forum with top city leaders discussing important questions such as what and if regionalism is good for Northeast Ohio and who will lead the task force.

Many of Ohio's constituents have supported regional planning and initiatives, but no action has been taken. How exactly will sharing taxes, reforming county government, combining municipal services and even merging cities save a region that has struggled with economic advancement?  This and so much more to be presented at this event!
Additional information attached.

See brochure for parking information and speaker bios. http://www.aiacleveland.com/PDFS/Regionalism%20Brochure.pdf

Please contact, Terri Hanna Wiehn, Executive Director, The Electrical League of Ohio for more information at (440) 333-5040.

[tcj1985]

Counties discuss NOACA exit
MATT SUMAN, Morning Journal Writer
10/19/2007



ELYRIA -- The Lorain County commissioners haven't given up on the idea of leaving the Northeast Ohio Areawide Coordinating Agency after demands made in order to get approval of the Interstate 90 interchange in Avon left a sour taste in their mouth.

After their regular board meeting yesterday, commissioners talked with Medina County Commissioner Stephen Hambley about both counties leaving the metropolitan transportation planning agency if they cannot resolve some issues.

More at http://www.morningjournal.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18934661&BRD=1699&PAG=461&dept_id=46371&rfi=6

[MyTwoSense]

wasnt this information already posted?  Are we cross posting again.  I'm not dissing you TCJOE just concerned that people will respond in both places and posts will confuse people.