Author Topic: Cincinnati: Green Twp - Legacy Place (Read 38004 times)

UncleRando · « **Reply #70 on:** March 14, 2006, 03:48:11 AM »

Legacy Place a unanimous winner
Downsized shopping center passes 3-0 in trustees' vote
BY CLIFF RADEL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

GREEN TWP. - It's unanimous: Green Township trustees like the down-sized version of Legacy Place.

Click on link for article.

cincyimages · « **Reply #71 on:** March 17, 2006, 03:18:23 AM »

http://www.legacyplacemall.com/

AndrewN · « **Reply #72 on:** March 18, 2006, 02:15:29 AM »

Ummm..... those pictures represent the original proposal not the latest from what I have researched on the subject. Any one have the new plans?

UncleRando · « **Reply #73 on:** March 18, 2006, 12:43:18 PM »

No he is correct...this is the new proposal. Compare the two:

1st Proposal:

2nd Proposal:

You can see how the second plan takes up less of the land under speculation. This land will still be part of the project, however, it will not include structures on it.

The two plans are similar, even in land use size. This was the reason for opposition from the Clean Green Township organization. The reworked proposal still eats up a lot of natural area!

xumelanie · « **Reply #74 on:** March 18, 2006, 02:28:39 PM »

Quote from: UncleRando on March 14, 2006, 03:48:11 AM

Silverman promised "the nicest shopping destination in Green Township."

Wow, that is so vague!

AndrewN · « **Reply #75 on:** March 19, 2006, 04:10:55 AM »

I stand corrected. I support the shopping center. The west side needs some thing to balance it out with the east. Has anyone noticed all the new homes on the westside being built for 400k -600k? The westside is coming into its own. Now if only the region can pull together and support the heart of the metro we would really be a very cool place!

UncleRando · « **Reply #76 on:** April 11, 2006, 02:10:32 AM »

Legacy Place has a neighbor
Green trustees vote to acquire property next to proposed shopping area for township offices
BY CLIFF RADEL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

GREEN TWP. - Legacy Place and Green Township's Police Department and administrative complex soon could be neighbors.

No link available.

UncleRando · « **Reply #77 on:** June 06, 2006, 05:50:45 AM »

County to vote on Legacy Place
BY CLIFF RADEL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

GREEN TWP. - Tim Mara could be back in the referendum business Wednesday.

It all depends how Hamilton County commissioners vote on Legacy Place, the proposed West Side shopping center.

Click on link for article.
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060606/NEWS01/606060336/-1/rss

TraderJake · « **Reply #78 on:** June 07, 2006, 11:46:08 AM »

I foresee the San Mar Gale ultimatium:

From the Hamilton County Rural Zoning Resolution:

Residential Zone "B"
Minimum Lot Size: 10,500 sq feet = 0.241 acre

Legacy place just happens to be Zoned Residental B
Proposed Legacy Place Site: 63 acres.
Possible Homes for Legacy Place: 261 homes

Total Site Acreage: 76 + 63 acres = 139 acres
Possible homes For Total Site: 576 homes

Legacy Place vote delayed
BY CLIFF RADEL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

For want of a second, Green Township’s proposed Legacy Place shopping center is on hold for a week.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060607/NEWS01/306070029

CiNYC · « **Reply #79 on:** June 07, 2006, 12:20:14 PM »

that is one awful plan.

jmecklenborg · « **Reply #80 on:** June 12, 2006, 03:51:56 PM »

>please God let developers in Hamilton County learn how to develop smooth flowing corridors. I dont want another Colerain.

People in Cincinnati hold up Colerain as being the bar so far as suburban strips go -- there are actually many much worse strips around the country. Kingston Pike in Knoxville, Airport Boulevard in Mobile, they are all much longer and much more congested. I come back and drive the Colerain strip sometimes and can't believe how short and what a non-event it is compared to the hellacious conditions in the suburbs of the South.

That said, kill this project. What a joke. All these dumpy centers are sitting there waiting to be redeveloped.

Eighth and State · « **Reply #81 on:** June 12, 2006, 04:24:39 PM »

^--- Yes, I think Beechmont Avenue is four times as bad as Colerain, but Colerain is the traditional whipping-boy for traffic for some reason.

buildingcincinnati · « **Reply #82 on:** June 16, 2006, 11:11:57 AM »

From the 6/15/06 Enquirer:

Legacy Place vote again is far from definitive
BY CLIFF RADEL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

Déjà vu struck the Hamilton County Board of Commissioners meeting Wednesday, and left the proposed Legacy Place shopping center in a possible legal limbo.

Click on link for article.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060615/NEWS01/606150348/1056

buildingcincinnati · « **Reply #83 on:** July 05, 2006, 09:55:20 AM »

From the 7/5/06 Western Hills Press:

Opposition gathers names to stop mall
BY KURT BACKSCHEIDER | COMMUNITY PRESS STAFF WRITER

GREEN TWP. -- Residents fighting the proposed Legacy Place development are busy canvassing the community collecting signatures.

Click on link for article.
http://news.communitypress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060705/NEWS01/607050747/1067/Local

cincyimages · « **Reply #84 on:** July 05, 2006, 03:39:41 PM »

Well I am not a fan of the development but that doesn't mean that I don't think that retail development at this location shouldn't happen. My problem is the awful surface lots in the center of the project and more than likely the typical generic chains, this place looks like nothing more than a newer strip mall filled with the typical Dick's Sporting Goods, Bed Bath & Beyond, Petsmart, Pier One, Borders & a Michael's Crafts, throw in a Great Clips & Game Stop and you have a typical suburban strip mall in 2006. So sad while older strip malls are left abandoned all over the west side of Cincinnati.

Do you think this place would bring in new retail or would it just be shuffling other chains around the community leaving more strip malls abandoned?

Lastly I will take Colerain over horrid Glenway Ave. Glenway is one of the sadest strips in Cincinnati IMO. You can tell it used to have beautiful old walkable business districts but it was butchered by urban renewal so now you have buildings that are up against the road and others set back in a typical suburban setting which leaves a terrible looking strip. Couple that with some of the 4 lanes that still have street side parking, abandoned store fronts, an over abundance of powerlines and telephone poles and you are left with one big clusterf*ck.

UncleRando · « **Reply #85 on:** July 06, 2006, 12:57:32 AM »

Quote from: montecarloss on July 05, 2006, 03:39:41 PM

Lastly I will take Colerain over horrid Glenway Ave. Glenway is one of the sadest strips in Cincinnati IMO. You can tell it used to have beautiful old walkable business districts but it was butchered by urban renewal so now you have buildings that are up against the road and others set back in a typical suburban setting which leaves a terrible looking strip. Couple that with some of the 4 lanes that still have street side parking, abandoned store fronts, an over abundance of powerlines and telephone poles and you are left with one big clusterf*ck.

Soo...are you trying to say that you do not enjoy the westside shopping experience of Glenway Ave??

buildingcincinnati · « **Reply #86 on:** July 06, 2006, 12:17:48 PM »

Quote from: montecarloss on July 05, 2006, 03:39:41 PM

Do you think this place would bring in new retail or would it just be shuffling other chains around the community leaving more strip malls abandoned?

I would say that it will just be a reshuffling with nothing really new to the area, similar to what Stone Creek Town Center will have at 275 and Colerain.
http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=7835.0

In other words...Meijer, Bed Bath and Beyond, possibly a FREAKING CHILI'S....

David · « **Reply #87 on:** July 06, 2006, 12:51:10 PM »

I've spent a lot time at places like Phillips Swim Club, Western Bowl, Front Porch, and Zen and Now. I miss Price Hill Chili so badly but my ex girlfriend works there and I don't particularly care to run into her. Personally just from my own perception of the west side's potential, I think they should work on strengthening the areas already developed and not try to expand out atleast until Glenway is better. What these developers need to realize though is that the west side is for the most part, a blue collar area. Lets face it. The west side is already struggling with regular businesses that target all demographics. People in Price Hill shop in Delhi unless it's an emergency and P-Hill businesses get no love. The business district in Cheviot is actually quite underrated but like most things on that side of town, it gets overlooked. There's not much wealth on the west side, and definitely not enough to sustain upscale shopping. Developers know the feasibility within the demographics, and my guess is that by saying "upscale" they assume people are more likely to approve it. Speaking of upscale I highly recommend The Cabana on the river in Saylor Park, seriously...you guys would love this place. The tables and the bar and everything are on a large wooden deck outside, yet in the shade and overlooking the river. It's an amazing asset to the west side. Sorry for going off topic a little...

UncleRando · « **Reply #88 on:** July 07, 2006, 01:07:07 AM »

^Dont get me wrong, I hate this project. But I would disagree that there is no/not enough wealth on the westside of Cincinnati to support upscale shopping. It is known that there are large pockets of wealth (millionaires) throughout the westside. You may even be shocked to hear that Delhi and Price Hill have their fair share of wealth. Look no further than the very expensive/elite Western Hills Country Club. Not to mention the huge amount of people who pay to send their children to private schools on the westside. This is very expensive, and takes a lot of money to pay for.

On top of all this, where the development is, all of the new housing being built there is no cheaper than $300,000. This is one of few, if any, areas gaining population in Hamilton County and it is a very wealthy population. Just take a drive down Rybolt Rd and go through some of the various new neighborhoods...notice all of the BMW's, Lexus', and Mecedes'.

The westside is bluecollar, but it is also careful with its money. Much fewer people on the westside (compared to eastside) are making payments on their homes/cars. They outright own them, and that is wealth that cannot be seen with the untrained eye.

David · « **Reply #89 on:** July 07, 2006, 04:44:21 AM »

Most of the people I know that went to Elder have to take out loans to pay for their own college...just because they went to private schools it doesn't mean they're wealthy. I've been to parties on the richer subdivisions on the west side (something farms??) houses probably in the 800k-1.2m range, but I just don't think it's enough to sustain a big upscale development. That could also depend on what they consider upscale though. When I think upscale I think Cheesecake Factory, Jos. A. Bank, etc. They probably consider a Gap, JC Pennys, and Steak n Shake to be upscale in an effort to get everyone excited about the development.

xumelanie · « **Reply #90 on:** July 07, 2006, 05:43:02 AM »

^ I think there is enough wealth on the west side to support some upscale development, but I don't think there is enough to support a complex as large as Legacy Place.

I don't think people consider JC Penneys or Steak n Shake to be upscale. However, I do agree that just because someone went to Elder, Mercy, etc. that they are wealthy. Quite a few families really cut back on spending in other areas so they can pay for these schools.

TraderJake · « **Reply #91 on:** July 07, 2006, 07:04:57 AM »

The burgeoning developments on the West Side could easily support Legacy Place. I'll go out on a limb an say I am hopeful that this location will be as nice as Bridgewater Falls, which is not very nice at all. Let's face it, it does not take much to become the nicest location on the West Side, and if you define your boundaries as a west sider would, it still would be if Stone Creek turns out nicer. I am not necessarily knocking on the existing Glenway outlets, but they just aren't that nice to make "the nicest destination on the West Side" seem very nice.

Now, I wish that Manchester Plaza is redeveloped before Legacy Place is built. That would be nice, however, I just don't see that happening. I also don't know if I like a crap load of houses going on to the property as the current zoning would allow, and that could be plan B is Mr. Mara successfully gets his referendum passed. I honestly don't know which option is better. Perhaps as more time passes we shall know, but one thing is certain, greenspace in Green Township won't stay green forever unless it is owned by the the government.

PS: Contrary to popular belief, lots of rich people live on the West Side.

UncleRando · « **Reply #92 on:** July 07, 2006, 09:00:23 AM »

Quote from: TraderJake on July 07, 2006, 07:04:57 AM

Now, I wish that Manchester Plaza is redeveloped before Legacy Place is built. That would be nice, however, I just don't see that happening.

It is happening as we speak....there has been some major/significant progress made on the redevelopment of Manchester Plaza just recently. I will try to get some pics for you guys, but they have broken up the old Kroger (and a neighboring spot) into three new distinct storefronts. I would imagine they are doing this to attract a different business, one that wants a space larger than a fabric store but smaller than a Kroger store.

TraderJake · « **Reply #93 on:** July 08, 2006, 03:04:46 PM »

When I say redevelopment, I mean make it "nice." The BMV and Hancock Fabrics are not necessarily nice tenants, and given the existing tenants I seriously doubt anyone that is considered "nice" would ever move in.

UncleRando · « **Reply #94 on:** July 13, 2006, 01:19:14 AM »

I say well done....lets get this thing on the ballot where the voters can turn this thing down when the politicians missed their chance....I thought they were supposed to be representing the voter?!?!? If this gets on the ballot, I believe that the project will go down in flames!!!

Legacy Place opponents to submit petitions
Group wants rezoning on November ballot
BY CLIFF RADEL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

GREEN TWP. - They needed 1,422 signatures to put Legacy Place to a vote. They gathered about 3,100.

Citizens for the Preservation of a Safe Clean Green Township plan to present petitions today to Hamilton County commissioners.

Click on link for article.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060713/NEWS01/607130350/1056/rss02

TraderJake · « **Reply #95 on:** July 13, 2006, 02:29:04 AM »

I mentioned it ago and I'll mention it again, but if this is taken to a referendum than I only wonder how quickly plan B for this site will arise, one that can be built without a zoning change and one that will put lots of houses onto this site. I could be wrong about it, but I would be shocked if Silverman does not reveal a plan B if this goes to a referendum.

UncleRando · « **Reply #96 on:** July 13, 2006, 05:27:20 AM »

^Well it is my understanding that Silverman typically does commercial developments, not residential. I would also seem to think the same amount of opposition would arise with a housing project. The citizens are upset about the disruption to the natural environment and the inappropriate contortion of the land. This would still hold true for a residential development and, IMO, the opposition would still be there for Plan B.....I know I would!

UncleRando · « **Reply #97 on:** July 20, 2006, 06:11:14 AM »

These are NOT pics of Legacy Place (not built yet)....but these are pics of the strip mall across the street from where Legacy Place is planning to go. This strip mall has been a dump for some time (main tennant KMart), and some in the community wonder why build a new shopping center when there is one across the street sitting mainly vacant.

Well there are some major renovations going on at the run down strip mall and some new tenants have signed on (Dollar Tree, Aldi...I know sounds like it will complement the 'upscale' Legacy Place). Bringing the list of tenants to: KMart, BMV, Chinese Restaurant, Aldi, Dollar General, Dollar Tree, and Pizza Hut in the parking lot.

Here is an overview of the existing center, it looks as if they are continuing the rehab down the rest of the bldg:

Close up on the rehab work:

Here are a couple detailed shots of the rehab area. I guess you can at least be happy that the new commercial design standards are in effect for this project, even though the center still sucks!

Finally here is the planned new entrance for (trumpets sound) Legacy Place!

UncleRando · « **Reply #98 on:** July 25, 2006, 01:46:25 AM »

Trustees make plans for Legacy Place
BY CLIFF RADEL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

GREEN TWP. - If a zoning change becomes reality, the Legacy Place shopping center would have no fast-food joints and no dirty bookstores. It would sit next to 80 acres of parkland, half of which the township plans to buy for $2.1 million.

Click on link for article.
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060725/NEWS01/607250340/-1/rss

TraderJake · « **Reply #99 on:** July 25, 2006, 07:55:16 AM »

The links to your photos are dead, UncleRando, but I was at the Pizza Hut in the pictured plaza last night and I saw that one of the new tenants is Aldi. BMV, K-Mart, and Aldi... now those are some high quality establishments to compete with Legacy Place. I also think that the "new" facade for Manchester Plaza looks really bad, but that is probably just me.

I don't know if I like the idea of the TIF paying for the park, as a certain road will need major improvements down the road, and hopefully the TIF can finance that and the acquisition of the parkland.

moonloop · « **Reply #100 on:** July 31, 2006, 05:07:58 AM »

Quote from: UncleRando on July 25, 2006, 01:46:25 AM

The agreement contains restrictions that would keep public buses - as well as sexually-oriented businesses and fast-food restaurants - out of the proposed 63-acre complex near the intersection of Westwood Northern Boulevard and Harrison Avenue.

Why would they prevent buses from being allow? There's a good chance potential employees would need transportation to get to work.

AndrewN · « **Reply #101 on:** August 01, 2006, 06:26:18 AM »

Maybe this Shopping Center could get Crate & Barrel. This would be a sign that the Westside can hold it's own against the east side.

xumelanie · « **Reply #102 on:** August 01, 2006, 07:39:28 AM »

Quote from: moonloop on July 31, 2006, 05:07:58 AM

Quote from: UncleRando on July 25, 2006, 01:46:25 AM

The agreement contains restrictions that would keep public buses - as well as sexually-oriented businesses and fast-food restaurants - out of the proposed 63-acre complex near the intersection of Westwood Northern Boulevard and Harrison Avenue.

Why would they prevent buses from being allow? There's a good chance potential employees would need transportation to get to work.

I know some people say that the buses are responsible for the decline of Western Hills Plaza. They say it brings undesirables to the area.

I'm just repeating what I've heard people say - I don't necessarily agree with this myself. Buses have been going through Western Hills Plaza (and many other shopping centers) for years. I have a hard time believing this is responsible for the problems there.

oakiehigh · « **Reply #103 on:** August 02, 2006, 05:33:12 PM »

I spoke with the landlord from New Plan regarding the buses actually loading and unloading on the WHP property. He assured me that by Nov., they will no longer be allowed on the Plaza's property. I am not against public transportation, however if you have ever walked anywhere near the bus stop in front of Bed Bath and Beyond and TJmaxx........ Well, it is pretty discusting.... Trash all over the ground, carts turned on thier side for temp. seating, you get the picture!!!! Put the bus stop out on Glenway Ave where it belongs. I do hope this mall manager is serious.......Just my opinion though.

UncleRando · « **Reply #104 on:** August 03, 2006, 05:47:53 AM »

^Of course you're going to have a lot of trash in an area if there are a lot of people in that area. Why doesn't the plaza get some people out and about and maintain the freakin' property. They do this in many other areas (amusement parks, indoor malls, downtowns, etc)...why are these outdoor plazas any different. The owners of these places have to step up and take responsibility for their own inadequacies.

Western Hills Plaza has a terrible mix of stores, relied too heavily on Kroger/Media Play, put little maintenence into the property, and allowed the place to become the dump it is today. There are bus stops all over and just because there is a bus stop, does not mean that it is going to be a dumpy area. See: Anderson Town Center, Downtown Cincy, Tylersville Road, Kenwood Mall, Blue Ash, etc.

News:

Author Topic: Cincinnati: Green Twp - Legacy Place (Read 38004 times)