Author Topic: Warren County: Union Village Otterbein  (Read 937 times)

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Offline kjbrill

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Warren County: Union Village Otterbein
« on: April 13, 2014, 04:21:01 AM »
The announcement by the Otterbein Retirement Community in Lebanon this week that they are going to do a large development on 1,400 acres they own there was a disappointment to me. I think they are calling it a new urbanist development, whatever that is. It dwarfs the Austin Landing to the north and also the Liberty Center to the south.

Otterbein has been a peaceful retirement community for a long time. I can't help but feel it will be adversely affected by this announced development just due to the scale. And the intersection of Ohio 63 and Ohio 741 is not going to come out like a rose either. Appears to me some managers hired to manage the non-profit saw all that land and just couldn't resist look at the money we can make by developing it. The area doesn't need it and Otterbein certainly doesn't need it. If they were planning on expanding Otterbein into the premier retirement location in the entire Tri-State area that would be one thing, as they could maintain its somewhat rural atmosphere and tranquility. But that doesn't appear to be the plan.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 10:29:54 PM by ColDayMan »

Offline slumcat

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Re: Warren County - Otterbein Development Announcement
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2014, 04:59:37 AM »
"New urbanism" is neither new nor urban IF the development is lacking a fixed route mass transit connection to the site's surroundings and the larger metro area. Not sure exactly what land they are referring to, but I know the general area.  I used to work in the '741 Center' bldg. on the east side of 741, by the water tower.  Do you know what is planned for that land?  Anyway, when I worked there Warren County Transit was very limited capacity,  using gasoline powered vans, more-less operating like a taxi service or rural social services transportation provider.  Is it still like that?  My experience there goes back 20 years.  Anyway, bottom line...development like what is projected here, 20+ miles from any major urban center, absent a strong rail or bus transit connection, is rarely good news.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 05:03:49 AM by slumcat »

Offline natininja

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Re: Warren County - Otterbein Development Announcement
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2014, 05:05:26 AM »
Can you provide a link? I could imagine it possibly being good for a retirement community. It sounds like the area is pretty remote, and many older folks either don't drive or drive but shouldn't (based on their physical aptitudes). Putting some stores, restaurants, and entertainment options near the community and making it unnecessary to drive in order to access such amenities may not be so bad. Not that I am saying we need to spread out development any more than we already have in the region, but specifically in terms of effects on the retirement community I could see it as being beneficial.

One of the big problems with the auto-centric development model is giving elderly folks unnecessary anxiety about losing their independence if they can no longer drive. (And, beyond mere anxiety/psychological problems, real logistical problems for families and (especially) elderly folks without someone to take them shopping/etc.) I personally have experience with caring for elderly people who lost their abilities to drive and basically lived on an island for the rest of their lives, whereas if they lived somewhere more accommodating (like a New Urbanist development) they could have bought one of those electric scooters and lived a significantly more independent and socially rich life for several extra years.
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Offline slumcat

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Re: Warren County - Otterbein Development Announcement
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2014, 05:23:38 AM »
^  OK, right.  Now, consider...this kind of relates to the point I'm making two upthread.  How are these millennium gen grads going to be able to visit their grandparents at Otterbein?  When you graduate from college with a degree, and $70,000+ in student loans,  and the only job you can find is part time paying $10. per hour...your budget doesn't leave room for a car and car payments (not to mention maintenance, insurance...).

Somehow we've got to get rid of this myth that  everybody has access to a car and we design everything around that assumption.

Offline kjbrill

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Re: Warren County - Otterbein Development Announcement
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2014, 06:10:34 AM »
First of all, I have not observed a problem with the residents at Otterbein having a problem getting around. Otterbein operates their own busses to transport the residents, whether it be to the doctor, the store, or just on an outing. They don't reply on Warren County Transit which is admittedly quite limited.

Here is a link to the article announcing the development in the Dayton Business Journal.
http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news/2014/04/08/otterbein-plots-massive-mixed-use-development-in.html?page=all

If you read the whole article, you will note they are talking about 4,500 residential units, a mix of multi-family, single-family, townhomes and rental units, plus a million square feet of commercial and retail. And additional space for a school, a university branch in junction with the University of Dayton, an equestrian center, parks. This is not a small development.

Also note they filed the plans with Warren County under a new company name, Otterbein Homes Inc with the development itself tagged Union Village Otterbein. Also note this outfit operates 13 facilities around southwest Ohio, not shabby for a non-profit. Still say they are being permitted to operate in a manner only a for-profit should be capable of. When they begin competing with private developers I believe they should be bared from doing so. And 4,500 residential units sounds like private developer domain to me.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 06:31:20 AM by kjbrill »

Offline OHKID

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Re: Warren County - Otterbein Development Announcement
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2014, 08:01:22 AM »
^  OK, right.  Now, consider...this kind of relates to the point I'm making two upthread.  How are these millennium gen grads going to be able to visit their grandparents at Otterbein?  When you graduate from college with a degree, and $70,000+ in student loans,  and the only job you can find is part time paying $10. per hour...your budget doesn't leave room for a car and car payments (not to mention maintenance, insurance...).

Somehow we've got to get rid of this myth that  everybody has access to a car and we design everything around that assumption.

Excellent observation. I think that's a key aspect many people don't understand with the new economy - it's service based. As in low-wage service based.


Not to take this too far off topic, but that's why minimum wage reform is key. There are going to be a lot more people in the future living off minimum wage and working in industries like food service and retail as a career. And that's not a bad thing either, despite the contrary opinion. It takes a lot less money to live now than it did even five years ago.

So, for instance, cable? No need with a Roku. Books? Look at how many you can get free on Amazon for Kindle. Or better yet, sites like UO provide a lot of fairly credible research on one spot.

"Stuff" is not so necessary anymore. Because of that, there will be less demand for "stuff". Once 3-D printing becomes viable, forget the need to buy "stuff" from stores anymore. Forget the malls and big-box stores. All anyone will want to do is order more raw material for their 3-D printers online.

Something else to note - food prices are going up a lot. So is the demand for more social interaction in an organic, unique environment. Put this together, and you find a growing demand for independent restaurants, and with it a larger need for knowledgeable restaurant operators, chefs, and employees. That's a lot of the reason why craft brewing is taking off - people are looking for an authentic place to eat, drink, and mingle in a world that is very virtual and fake. People like the rough edges, the sense of community, and the atmosphere. That's something you can't find just anywhere.

Pair these factors together, and that's a lot of incentive for many people, young or old, to move into urban areas. Many no longer feel a need to isolate themselves in a bubble. They don't feel a need to make over $100k a year so they can afford a McMansion and a nice car, just so they can fill the McMansion with a bunch of crap they don't use and drive alone to and from their far-away job in their car pod. They also realize the health consequences of not getting enough exercise, not being exposed to natural daylight and fresh air, and the amount of chemicals used in food from chain restaurants. Thus the desire for walkability, and real neighborhoods with real traditions. Check out this perspective to give you an idea of what I'm talking about:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/07/27/why-millennials-are-leaving-the-church/

particularly
Quote
Having been advertised to our whole lives, we millennials have highly sensitive BS meters, and we’re not easily impressed with consumerism or performances.

In fact, I would argue that church-as-performance is just one more thing driving us away from the church, and evangelicalism in particular.

Many of us, myself included, are finding ourselves increasingly drawn to high church traditions – Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, the Episcopal Church, etc. – precisely because the ancient forms of liturgy seem so unpretentious, so unconcerned with being “cool,” and we find that refreshingly authentic.

What millennials really want from the church is not a change in style but a change in substance.

I know it's an abstract tie to the concept, but it illustrates well how today people seek authenticity in a very virtual, synthetic world. And I'm not sure how Otterbein operates, but I have a feeling this development is not very "authentic" or congruent with their "values" - if they know what their values even are.


So, going even further on this tangent, one can live fairly well now if they work about 40 hours a week at the new proposed minimum wage, $10.10. And there is a lot of need to fill those types of jobs. Yes, the rich are still getting richer, and I am well aware of the arguments about how a minimum wage increase will cost jobs and worker motivation. But it costs society a lot less overall to ensure people are able to live off of what they earn. And if there is a minimum wage of $10.10 tied to inflation, adjusted yearly, I think this wage could support an individual living on their own and working 40 hours a week for years to come. They may even be able to live fairly comfortably given they channel some of that money into decent internet service and they know what they can find out there for free.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 08:06:42 AM by OHKID »

Offline kjbrill

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Re: Warren County - Otterbein Development Announcement
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2014, 09:42:55 PM »
OHKID ... I am trying to digest your post a relate it to the development announced by Otterbein.

If people are desiring to move to a more urban environment, why would they move to a large development in the middle of the country where there is no transportation to anywhere other than by car. As one poster related, the Warren County Transit is only a few small gas powered buses which don't even run on an established schedule. They are nothing more than a public taxi service to primarily assist elderly people. I see nothing in this development which is going to materially change that. There is no base to build off of.

And those 4,500 residential units, how many people does that relate to? Let's discount kids, but if they are planning soccer and baseball fields they must be planning on kids. Buts lets just say 2 persons to a unit, that is a fair sized city of 9,000. Where are these people going to work? I didn't see anything suggesting a sufficient number of jobs to be created right in the development. So that tells me we are talking a car oriented environment having to drive some distance for employment.

Pardon my pessimism, but I just see a suburban sprawl situation talking advantage of some salable land plopped down in an environment worse than most when it comes to such things as water supply, sewer, all the necessary infrastruture and being disguised as some kind of new urban living when there is nothing urban about it.

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Re: Warren County: Union Village Otterbein
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2014, 10:30:52 PM »
Otterbein plots massive mixed-use development in Warren County

A Lebanon nonprofit has submitted plans for a 1,400-acre mixed-use development in Warren County.

Otterbein, which oversees the region’s largest retirement community, says the project — termed “Union Village Otterbein” — would be a planned development around its existing Lebanon campus with a mixed-use concept for 4,500 residential units, 1 million square feet of commercial and retail space, and room for growth of the retirement community anchoring the development.

More below:
http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news/2014/04/08/otterbein-plots-massive-mixed-use-development-in.html?page=all
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Re: Warren County: Union Village Otterbein
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2014, 02:58:39 AM »
I always wondered if that place has fraternities and sororities.

Online GCrites80s

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Re: Warren County: Union Village Otterbein
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2014, 03:02:02 AM »


"Stuff" is not so necessary anymore. Because of that, there will be less demand for "stuff". Once 3-D printing becomes viable, forget the need to buy "stuff" from stores anymore. Forget the malls and big-box stores. All anyone will want to do is order more raw material for their 3-D printers online.


People can also grow their own food but most still don't. That's like saying that the reason pot is/was illegal is that you can grow it yourself and the government and businesses wouldn't get a cut. But most people where it's legal buy it from a dispensary rather than grow it.

Offline OHKID

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Re: Warren County: Union Village Otterbein
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2014, 05:14:44 AM »


"Stuff" is not so necessary anymore. Because of that, there will be less demand for "stuff". Once 3-D printing becomes viable, forget the need to buy "stuff" from stores anymore. Forget the malls and big-box stores. All anyone will want to do is order more raw material for their 3-D printers online.


People can also grow their own food but most still don't. That's like saying that the reason pot is/was illegal is that you can grow it yourself and the government and businesses wouldn't get a cut. But most people where it's legal buy it from a dispensary rather than grow it.

Kind of, I guess.

I would say 3-D printing to average merchandise is more like the relationship between computers and books.


Think about it. Let's say you want a new stylish cotton tank top. Is it easier to go to the store and buy one or just print one? The technology is still years off, but it is coming rapidly.

Pair that with the fact people don't really need "stuff" as much anymore, and you have a good recipe for a need for less income. Why? People can rely more now on common goods. Like Google, social media, etc.

Offline OHKID

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Re: Warren County: Union Village Otterbein
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2014, 05:20:16 AM »
OHKID ... I am trying to digest your post a relate it to the development announced by Otterbein.

If people are desiring to move to a more urban environment, why would they move to a large development in the middle of the country where there is no transportation to anywhere other than by car. As one poster related, the Warren County Transit is only a few small gas powered buses which don't even run on an established schedule. They are nothing more than a public taxi service to primarily assist elderly people. I see nothing in this development which is going to materially change that. There is no base to build off of.

And those 4,500 residential units, how many people does that relate to? Let's discount kids, but if they are planning soccer and baseball fields they must be planning on kids. Buts lets just say 2 persons to a unit, that is a fair sized city of 9,000. Where are these people going to work? I didn't see anything suggesting a sufficient number of jobs to be created right in the development. So that tells me we are talking a car oriented environment having to drive some distance for employment.

Pardon my pessimism, but I just see a suburban sprawl situation talking advantage of some salable land plopped down in an environment worse than most when it comes to such things as water supply, sewer, all the necessary infrastruture and being disguised as some kind of new urban living when there is nothing urban about it.

Agreed. There is no benefit to building a New Urbanist community in the middle of nowhere. If I understand correctly, new urbanist only works well in areas that are already urban.

If the new urbanist community is designed so you can do most of your daily life functions by foot (i.e., has a Walkscore above 80 or so), then it would make sense and probably would reduce a lot of pollution, waste, etc. I do not know enough about this community to determine whether or not that will be the case.... But either way, even the lack of public transportation alone makes it so there is virtually no benefit to a new urbanist type of community at this location.

Offline natininja

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Re: Warren County: Union Village Otterbein
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2014, 06:27:03 AM »
^ New Urbanism is a viable way for retrofitting suburbs to be more sustainable, but I agree there should at the very least be a transit link to the regional center or it's not really New Urbanism. Pretty much for the reason kjbrill stated: there's no job access without an automobile.
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Offline Eighth and State

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Re: Warren County: Union Village Otterbein
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2014, 08:01:10 AM »
Quote
There's no job access without an automobile.

But aren't we talking about a retirement community?

Yes, retirees may get out of the community sometimes, and the community still needs workers and supplies, and visits from family, but isn't the whole point of a retirement community to be self-contained? That is, most of the residents won't leave the community most days?

Offline natininja

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Re: Warren County: Union Village Otterbein
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2014, 08:18:28 AM »
We're talking about a 1400-acre "New Urbanist" mixed-use greenfield development which happens to be going next to a retirement community.
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Offline kjbrill

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Re: Warren County: Union Village Otterbein
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2014, 04:20:25 PM »
Quote
There's no job access without an automobile.

But aren't we talking about a retirement community?

Yes, retirees may get out of the community sometimes, and the community still needs workers and supplies, and visits from family, but isn't the whole point of a retirement community to be self-contained? That is, most of the residents won't leave the community most days?

No, we are talking a new 1,400 acre development with 4,500 housing units of multiple types which happens to be next to a retirement community but not a retirement community itself. You don't plan soccer and baseball fields, a school, etc. for a retirement community. That is my point. The occupants of those 4,500 housing units are going to require employment, and with the lack of public tranportation this means they are going to have to drive to those jobs. No matter how well the new community is laid out for walkability, etc., the fact the residents have to drive to work pretty much destroys the new urbanist aspect of it. Note the new development has a different name Union Village Otterbein. This alone indicates it is not an expansion of the retirement community. And the name of the development company is also new Otterbein Homes Inc. The only real connection with the Otterbein Retirement Community is the use of the name and the exploitation of the 1,400 acres owned by Otterbein.

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Re: Warren County: Union Village Otterbein
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2014, 03:48:24 PM »
Region’s largest retirement community plots $20M housing project

The largest retirement community in the Dayton region is planning a $20 million project to expand housing.

Otterbein-Lebanon Retirement Community says the project in Warren County will create 83 independent living units across 20 new buildings. Among them will be 17 ranch-style homes which will range from 1,200 to 2,000 square feet, and three apartment buildings, two with 10 units each and one with 46 units, which will range from 800 to 1,600 square feet.

More below:
http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news/2014/09/12/region-s-largest-retirement-community-plots-20m.html
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